Possible flights from Zagreb to New York in 2011
The director of Croatia’s main airport, Tonči Peović, announced last week that Zagreb might soon have direct flights to the United States. The airport’s management is negotiating with a US carrier to commence flights between New York and Zagreb. Peović did not want to disclose the airline in question until the deal is finalised although he expressed optimism, stating that flights would commence in 2011.The “Jutarnji List” daily reports that the airport will purchase a certain number of seats on each flight in order entice the airline to initiate the flights. The airline will be exempt from paying landing and handling fees in the first year, with the fees progressively introduced within the next five years. Peović believes that with the establishment of the direct US service, Zagreb would become a transit point in the region which would in turn attract many new airlines and passengers.
The presence of North American airlines in the region is limited. During the 2011 summer season both American Airlines and Delta Air Lines will commence flights to Budapest in Hungary from New York City. No former Yugoslav republic has direct flights to United States or Canada. The director of Belgrade Nikola Tesla Airport hinted last month that flights to the United States could be established from the Serbian capital in 2011 although no concrete negotiations have taken place.
Offtopic just to take up again on the salary structions of JP pilots and FA. Here we go:
ReplyDeletePilots:
They have 60 block hours per month on the average in every calendar year. Max by state regulation is 85 per month.
Flying over 60 are overtime (30% more)
For night flying – between sunset and sunrise (70% more)
For Sunday (70% more)
For public holiday (100% more)
Daily allowance – depends on destination and daily duty time.
We all get 15%fuel price/km for coming to work – it’s tax deductible
Flight crews get their meals on plane – the rest of us get 6,5€ / 8hrs
For 30years work some 25% addition
My guess is for 30years no cpt comes under 8000€ brutto - taxes are roughly 45%.
But then depends on flying time and how much in those special conditions.
Of course training captains have more and then there are specials for functions, office work, lecturing, etc.
A few month ago the biggest salary was around 30.000€ brutto
Number of pilots have changed lately to around 150. roughly 75cpt / 75cop
With FA – normal FA1 (also 60 block hours norm) would come some 3500 – 4000€ brutto depending again on those extra conditions
There are training FAs with lecturing and office work can come over 10.000€ brutto. Taxes roughly 42%
Then FAs and pilots have reduced time for retirement – payed extra by company (I have no idea what that amount is)
Pilots need to work for 30years and FA 36 years
If the airport is needing to provide that much of a stick to commence flights between the US and Croatia, I don't see this lasting in the long term.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Airport Zagreb will manage to get a first
ReplyDeletedirect flight from JFK New York finally.
The package offered to U.S. airliners is enough attractive, what the reasons to refuse otherwise? It's clear that also the summer season would be involved for a pushing load factor of passengers.
Only the diaspora is not enough but a local hub and tourism could be a good reason for this long haul flight.
To Peter,
ReplyDeleteIt’s not a bad idea.
It will take a few years for other airlines to notice transit passengers using a new airport as a gateway such as Zagreb and if after 5 years an airline is experiencing decent loads bringing Trans Atlantic pax then why would they stop.
Zagreb needs a good terminal and I think this will have more of an impact on whether or not these NY flights are a success.
Another thought,
We have low cost carriers, so could we have a low cost airport???? Say Zagreb was set up as a low cost hub buster, low cost carriers could pick up pax from the America's, Middle East and Australasia and fly the to the secondary airports they already serve. This way low cost carriers and there passengers could bypass major hubs like Frankfurt and Heathrow.
Oh I am not sure about this... In order for this to work there has to be a strong carrier at the airport capable of feeding the route. However the airport clearly doesn't intend on helping OU so... Additionally to that I doubt that it will be United from New York so that leaves us with Delta and American Airlines. Since both of them are launching Budapest (American Airlines being in Oneworld) would mean that it would have Malév feed its flights. So I guess that Budapest would win over Zagreb any day, at least until Croatian Airlines becomes strong.
ReplyDeleteIf there was to be a flight to Croatia then I guess it would be Dubrovnik due to the numerous tourists going there.
@Q400
ReplyDeleteLow cost airports and transatlantic flights are incompatible, in my opinion. The transatlantic flights are profitable because of business class passengers, so by depriving airlines of their crème de la crème passengers their profit margins will be hit and so will their appetite for using low cost airports. I just cannot see it working.
There are two types of airports: profitable or otherwise. If having transatlantic flights make the airport more profitable then build a proper airport/terminal and go ahead, if not then try and improve on the regional offer and increase your profits. I have no patience for confused businesses.
@ ZAG APT
Best of luck to ZAG. I hope it works. It would provice, say, PRN with yet another option to fly to the States. What I don't like is the rubbish reports: "oh, we have a secret, someone will/might fly but we won't tell you who."
Thank to JU520 for the clarification I asked for.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why is Zagreb trying to establish air links with USA when Serbia is doing it in Chicago and New York (as well as Toronto)? No one from the US would travel to Zagreb...Dubrovnik maybe, but never Zagreb. Plus they can't handle the current amount of passengers in their terminal so how the hell are they going to handle intercontinental flights to US? This is just another silly outburst to try to make the headlines. And to Ex-Yu Aviation, JAT's director did travel to Chicago and spoke to the politicians there as well as the Serbian consulate in order to initiate the Belgrade-Chicago flights. Even you had that on this blog.
ReplyDeleteEarlier this year, I had separate meetings with Delta and Continental Airlines in DTW. I was very interested in their expansion plans and whether they would have any interest in flying to Ex-Yu. At first it seemed as none of them even heard for Croatia or Slovenia but then when I presented them with more information about the region such as tourism travel, relatively large Diaspora travel, geographic position, airline alliances...they became very interested and promised they would do some more market research about feasibility of non-stop flights to ZAG or LJU. Delta and Continental are the only two who can actually afford this kind of "venture". Both airlines operate their flights out of NYC hubs (DL at JFK and CO at EWR). Delta is famous for exploring and testing new markets in Europe and Africa. They serve numerous small and mid-size destinations in Europe such as Nice, Lyon, Stuttgart, Venice and have had pretty big success. On the other hand, CO might prove to be even better match as they are in the same alliance with Croatia and Adria, securing more feed passengers from neighboring countries. Not sure if B757 would have enough range to serve NYC-ZAG, but their B767-200 could definitely do it, giving again CO a significant advantage over Delta's B767-300.
ReplyDeleteI really hope we soon see NYC-ZAG come to realization.
Cheers
@Sam
ReplyDeleteI do not see how Continental would even think of flying to Zagreb or for that matter anywhere else when they have been merged with United.
@ last Anonymous
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't really matter. United is also in Star Alliance and Continental's fleet is not changing.
All,
ReplyDeleteWizz Air announced two new routes from BEG today: Brussels/Charleroi and Gothenburg, each operated with 2x/w from Apr,2011 onwards. I think these are great news for BEG again...
CO is merging with UA but mostly keeping CO top level.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteWill they use another plane or we'll see some changes to existing routes? Maybe NYO will get some changes...
WZZ4081 1525BEG - 1745CRL 26
WZZ4082 1810CRL - 2020BEG 26
WZZ4205 1640BEG - 1710GSE 4
WZZ4205 1755BEG - 2025GSE 7
WZZ4206 1940GSE - 2200BEG 4
WZZ4206 2055GSE - 2315BEG 7
I have to say that Jeebusman is on target with his post. This is such a cheap prank pulled by the airport director, the same thing with Belgrade. And American companies are more interested in starting direct air links with Serbia than even with Bulgaria or Romania let alone Croatia. I don't think there will be any transatlantic travel to Ex-Yu for a long time.
ReplyDeleteThis is bullshit. Zagreb has to build another terminal because its current one is shitty and they want to to start transatlantic flights??? This is so funny, I feel like SerbianSausage is running the airport lol :)
ReplyDeleteBesides even if Belgrade starts transatlantic flights, it will surely put Zagreb out of competition. More carriers are interested in starting flights to Belgrade than even Dubrovnik let alone Zagreb.
Interesting, The demand for this route will be quite high, as the people from the Balkans will come to Zagreb to fly to the States and vise verse, Croatia is a nice tourist destination and i think this is a profit-making decision.
ReplyDelete@Richard
ReplyDeleteYou think this is profit-making? The airport is going to have to purchase all empty seats, which includes business class as well. This will surely be profitable for the airline but Zagreb is losing a shit load of money.
And what if Belgrade starts its own network. That means that Montenegrins, Macedonians, and Albanians will use Belgrade and Zagreb is left with Croats and Slovenes, which cannot get the job done.
Hahaha...what a joke. Either Zagreb will realize it is losing money on this network, or Belgrade will decimate it hahaha...greetings from NYC!!!!!
ReplyDeleteBy the way Richard, please tell me you were joking...I can't imagine anyone saying something like that and being serious...
ReplyDeleteGuys, don't forget that Croatia Airlines is a member of the Star Alliance, so Continental (or now United) could possibly make something out of it. The fact is that all Star Alliance hubs in Europe except Croatia's and Adria's are connected with non-stop flights to North America. I am not Saying BEG is less important than ZAG, but considering JAT not belonging to any of the alliances and inability to provide feed passangers makes ZAG and Croatia Airlines a better choice. Don't forget that Croatia's airports combined, process much more passangers than BEG and INI in Serbia.
ReplyDelete"when Serbia is doing it in Chicago and New York (as well as Toronto)?"
ReplyDeleteThis is a sardonic joke, right?
So what if Jat is not in an alliance? Haven't you heard of a thing called code-share or even interline agreement ;)
ReplyDeleteCome on, there were so many news here, SArajevo to Tehran, Sarajevo to Malaysia.... we heard Zagreb to Australia, now we have Zagreb to the US...
Like it or not Belgrade airport is the one thta has the most potential to succede, just like Budapest it has a large cathcment area as well as a lot of business class passengers.
Like someone mentioned here, Dubrovnik has more chance of getting flights to the US than Zagreb.
Croatian airports might serve more passengers than all of Serbia, but don't forget most of the Croatian passengers are actually tourists (naturally Zagreb excluded) and that is why they are unattractive to to all these airlines and Belgrade is not.
I would say that probably 80% of the Bosnian Diaspora from North America uses ZAG as either their final destination and then drive to Bosnia or as a stop-over on their way to SJJ. If the NYC-ZAG flight prove to be true, this will take lots of passangers away from LJU, SJJ and BEG as well.
ReplyDeleteIf Air B&H organises a codeshare with KLM in Amsterdam then I doubt anyone would want to fly to Zagreb and then drive if they could fly to Sarajevo.
ReplyDeleteMore than 300.000 pax fly from Zagreb to USA last year. If company that come to ZAG is United or Continental that means conections to SPU, DBV, ZAD, PUY, SKP, TGD, PRN, SJJ and passangers from Slovenia and Northen Bosnia.
ReplyDeleteYou also have to know that Serbia have 50% of croatian traffic.
Do not forget that most of routes to USA during Yugoslavia flown from ZAG. Croatian diaspora in USA is more than 1,5 milion pax. Put here slovenian, bosnian, macedonian and montenegrian diaspora. I thing this rout would be success. And for company that will come there is no risk. That means they will come, they will success and they will stay! Bravo mr. Peovic!
People, wake up... If any route is going to be launched in the Balkans then it is Chicago-Athens.
ReplyDeleteIt is ranked as the number one unserved route from Athens with about 100.000 passengers per year!
You are all forgetting one thing...ZAGREB IS BUYING SEATS!!! Which means they know that they know they cannot fill up any of the planes. And like someone said, Croatia is not a business destination, it is a tourist one. And if you look at lonelyplanet or any tourist magazine, Americans prefer Florida, California, Spain, France, UK, and the Caribbean over anything else. And for the idiot who thought there were 1.5 million pax from US to Croatia...stop taking drugs please. The EU, OSCE, Council of Europe, and even neighboring Hungary all agreed that a future transatlantic business point in the region will be Belgrade. The European Skies treaty or whatever has designated the new Belgrade Air Traffic controller to be the CONTROLLER OF THE ENTIRE BALKAN PENINSULA. It is obvious that Europe is trying to regionalize itself with Belgrade as their hub. And don't forget that a0 there are more Serbian diaspora in USA/Canada than Croatian diaspora b) There is a study being performed and on the Serbian consulate in Chicago's site, they had posted that they were in serious talks with Chicago Airport c) Majority of American businessmen are investing in Serbia more than in any other Ex-Yu country.
ReplyDeleteSo what if JAT is not aprt on any alliance...yet. They are being advocated as partners by Air France and Alitalia for SkyTeam. Besides they can code share with an American company too. And with all the businessmen like Anonymous said, the business class will be much more full than in Zagreb. Plus, 80 percent of Bosnians do not use Zagreb, so stop taking crack and get your facts straight dumbass. And Montenegrins and Macedonians would surely use Belgrade more because it is easier to access, it has more connections, and they are using Belgrade more frequently than Zagreb already and it doesn't look like this will change.
ReplyDeleteI would also like to comment on the regionalization that Anonymous said, and while I'm not sure that this will happen any time soon, the projected date was 2012 but I see this happening around 2018 or 2020. And yes that is another reason why Belgrade has a chance to succeed and Zagreb does not.
One more thing I forgot to add...
ReplyDeleteto all Croats, stop taking pride in your tourist sector and act like it is the best coast ever. Here is a fact...IT IS NOT EVEN CLOSE. The fact that it WAS cheap made it competative but Croatia kept selling its coastline to foreigners and it is projected to lose tourist potential very quickly. Besides, Croatia's tourists are coming from the UK mostly, and with rates in USA so low, people would rather spend time in Miami Beach than Dubrovnik...Sorry guys but thats reality.
Well come on, the Belgrade airport terminal is so much nicer and its way more friendly than Zagreb. At least it has airbridges.
ReplyDeleteSecond of all Belgrade's geographical position makes it so much better to access than Zagreb.
Let's not forget that Jat codeshares with Aeroflot, Air France and since recently with KLM to Amsterdam which proved to be a huge success.
The developments and new airlines which launched Belgrade speak for themselves.
I feel it's like, if Belgrade has it Zagreb has to have... no matter how much it costs.
Please people there is no need to get rough. This should be a good thing that both Belgrade and Zagreb are trying to become transatlantic hubs.
ReplyDeleteBut here is what I project will happen:
Zagreb will not be able to sustain the flights even if they do commence. Belgrade is becoming a fiercely competitive market and might even beat Budapest. Also do not forget that businessmen from America are becoming much more interested in Serbia because of its low taxes, big market, and FUTURE POTENTIAL, which by far exceeds any other Balkan country.
Pozdrav iz Chicago
I work in the American tourist sector. And from the feedback that I get from Americans visiting Croatia, they say that is is beutiful, and historic, and people must visit Croatia, but it is not a destination in which they would want to come back. "It is good to experience Croatia once in your lifetime, but I don't see it as a place you'll visit more than once."
ReplyDeleteSo, that is the verdict. But I'd also like to point out that Albanian Airlines is starting flights to Belgrade and this is obviously because of the USA/Canada flights that Belgrade will set up. So in my opinion, Zagreb may do well in the short run, but long-term it won't be able to compete with Belgrade and Budapest and Athens.
So that means that we might see Belgrade-US as early as before next summer?
ReplyDeleteThat would kick ass as I need to fly to NY in June and it would be freaking amazing to fly directly from Belgrade.
My money is on Delta if the first flight is from NY but United if from Chicago.
Is Wizzair terminating ZAG=LTN from Spring? I tried booking for April and there was N/A for all flights - so I had to book Easyjet.
ReplyDeletelol is everyone serious?
ReplyDeleteBelgrade will receive no flights from the US. It seems the Serbs think they are the kings of the region again after an airport director had a few meetings with a rep from Chicago. Keep dreaming, it wont be realised, maybe if they decide to buy seats like Zagreb.
Zagreb will get the link first, putting profit/loss a side, it will show how competent the Croatian side is at obtaining links in such a short period of time, unlike the Serbs.
To all the Serbs, stop discussing this issue with jealousy in front of it, put it aside for a moment then begin.
Non of ExYu airports will get the US direct flight. We will for a long time and for sure fly over the ocean using FRA, MUC, ZUR, VIE, AMS, BRU, CDG ... etc.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteIt's not jealousy it's being realistic. Belgrade is obviously attractive as a destination being the metropolis that it is. No one is saying that these flights should not happen. All that is being said is that such flights are unprofitable because of Zagreb's location, and not many people would travel through it. Besides, American businessmen are eager to invest in Serbia more than anywhere else, and I'mm sure that they will support such a venture. Even Canadian websites are stating that Toronto-Belgrade is extremely likely to happen next year. So why is it hard to believe that Belgrade can get Chicago and New York? There are more Serbs in North America than Croats. And Serbia practically owns Montenegrin and Macedonian airspace. And in addition to that, Belgrade is being completely renovated, building a second runway, and is classified as one of the best, easiest to use, and friendliest airport in the Balkans. Zagreb is building a new terminal and at the same time starting transatlantic travel??? I mean come on dude...
And it's comments like yours that instigate nationalism.
Croatia is a tourist destination. It should stick to regional traffic. Such transatlantic travels are for really good tourist sites that are well-developed such as California, Florida, Caribbean, Spain, Portugal, etc. but mostly for business. Croatia has the coastline, but nothing else to offer. It has expensive labor, 4 million citizens, and is an EU candidate. Serbia is still very much unused and still has extreme potential. Every economy in the world knows this, and this is why USA and the EU want Serbia to join it as soon as possible so Russia and China don't get the goods. So Serbia is obviously a huge future market and business area which will most likely coincide with Europe's future "regionalization process". Thus it makes more sense to have North America-Belgrade flights, and then the few who want to visit Croatia can transfer @ Belgrade (if flights between the two start and they should since both BEG and ZAG could benefit hugely from each other).
ReplyDeleteAnd to the Anonymous that thought I was Pro-Serbian:
ReplyDeleteI'm being logical. I have asked Continental Airlines employees about this and macroeconomic as well as microeconomic professors about this. All pretty much come to the same conclusion which is what I posted above.
Hey guys stop acting like morons!!
ReplyDeleteGet real and calm!!
First to Jeebusman and others with macroecomomic explanations-this is the theory the real life says that Croatia has about 5-6 billion revenue from tourism each year.It is a great stimulus.There are not business pax flying from US to Venice but the route is profitable because of tourist journeys.
Second, about saying that Belgrade is a kind of metropolis..
Ok, but I bet that no one of you have been to Zagreb because you are probably pretty young nationalists who live abroad and think all the best about Serbia.With other words you are biased and put pink glasses when you think of Serbia, like it is a Sigapore of the Balkans and not a developing country whose currency depreciated about 70 percent in 1 year.This is not a good thing when you talk about investments-you can consult the macroeconomy prof. as well:-)And then all the main headquaters of the german, swiss and austrian corporations doing business in the Balkans are located in Zagreb.Think of Nescafe, RWE, Hypo Bank, Wiener Insurance..
I am Macedonian and from my point of view Zagreb is the most beautiful city in ex-yu, 100 times better than Belgrade, with metropolitan and cosmopolitan spirit.You can not get kicked or murdered in Zagreb because you are not fan of Partizan or because you take part on gay parade:-)
But the thing is that not much of the accent is put on Zagreb because there are also many other tourist destinations in Croatia, which is not the case in Serbia-it has only Belgrade as a tourist destination and nothing more!
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ReplyDelete@IN007
ReplyDeleteI am only trying to be reasonable. Once again I am not saying anything bad about Croatia nor about Zagreb, quite the contrary I do appreciate such steps that are taken. So I'd appreciate if you stop putting words in my mouth. I can't speak for the others, but for myself, I can tell you that I am no way a nationalist. I support the current effort to economically reproduce Yugoslavia.
Secondly, I am only stating that if you read any news in the last 2 years, you would be able to figure out that Europe (mainly EU and Balkans) is regionalizing itself to allow market access easier. This includes things like setting up a European regional bank in Belgrade, or the air traffic control center in Belgrade to take over the entire Balkan airspace. That's what I mean when I say Belgrade is a regional center for Ex-Yu. It is the most populous Ex-Yu city which makes it a larger market for investors, and the rental space is much more efficient and connected than Zagreb according to Israeli, American, German, and Italian businesses.
Thirdly, I have not been to Zagreb ever since my uncle's car with Serbian registration was destroyed by a molotov cocktail. And if you haven't read any news recently, you'll see that Partizan's bus was stoned and their coach moderately hurt. So don't give me bullshit that Croats are innocent and not feisty like the big bad Serbs. And if I'm not mistaken, UEFA and FIFA have fined Croatian clubs and the Croatian FA for neo-nazist support during games. So please, know your facts before you even try to speak anything.
Lastly, I would like to point out that yes, Croatia has tourist potential, but much like Montenegro, it has been selling its coast to rich people who visit about once every 2 years at the most. In addition, it has become an increasingly expensive destination and according to lonelyplanet and other tourist magazines (including the WTO) Croatia will not sustain the current level of tourism it has. And I would like to mention that its coastline is well developed. And I too have spoken to many people that visited Croatia in the recent years, even here in America, and all say that it is a wonderful lovely place. But when I asked them would you go again, their reply was pretty much, "Maybe someday. But not anytime soon." Plus may I remind you that it is actually much better to purchase or rent a condo in Miami USA and spend time on South Beach then Dubrovnik, which is what Europeans are starting to do and will continue to do even more in the future.
So please get your facts straight and stop bullshitting nationalist crap. You tell us to stop being nationalistic? Read your own post you moron.
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ReplyDeleteLastly, I would like to point out that yes, Croatia has tourist potential, but much like Montenegro, it has been selling its coast to rich people who visit about once every 2 years at the most. In addition, it has become an increasingly expensive destination and according to lonelyplanet and other tourist magazines (including the WTO) Croatia will not sustain the current level of tourism it has. And I would like to mention that its coastline is well developed. And I too have spoken to many people that visited Croatia in the recent years, even here in America, and all say that it is a wonderful lovely place. But when I asked them would you go again, their reply was pretty much, "Maybe someday. But not anytime soon." Plus may I remind you that it is actually much better to purchase or rent a condo in Miami USA and spend time on South Beach then Dubrovnik, which is what Europeans are starting to do and will continue to do even more in the future.
ReplyDeleteSo please get your facts straight and stop bullshitting nationalist crap. You tell us to stop being nationalistic? Read your own post you moron.
Pristine has already had flights so I don't know why they are saying for the first time to a balk in country.
ReplyDeleteDon't pay attention to IN007, he is either basing Serbia or Jat. He is just full of anger and bitterness.
ReplyDeleteIt's a fact, Belgrade is more alive than any other Ex-Yu capital. Ask any Slovenian and he will tell you. I know so many Croats (and one of my great friends) who always come to Belgrade to party. There is a reason why Belgrade has been voted the number one undiscovered destination. On a yearly basis Belgrade has more concerts than Budapest and Vienna togther... and so on.
Additionally the New Belgrade area is booming with new office spaces, as well as Belgrade is the only city in the region to have a class A office building.
IN007 you are an ignorant fool if you state that Serbia has nothing to offer besides Belgrade. First of all there are so many thermal spas all across the country which are becoming more and more popular with foreigners. There are ski resorts in the south of the country. Hundreds of medieval monasteries. Mokra Gora, Sarganska osmica, Tara rafting... these are just a few things that you can do out of Belgrade. I do not want to mention Guca and the Exit festival taking place in summer.
So you see, I think you are blinded by your hatered here for Serbia that you are missing the facts and end up looking like an idiot in the end.
As for these trans-atlantic flights, no one said that Belgrade will get them tomorrow morning, however if there has to be a choice between Belgrade and Zagreb, Belgrade would win any day. First of all the airport is ten times more modern, it will receive all modern gates, modern infrastructure, choice between gates and parking, low cost terminal, links to almost all countries in Europe.
Belgrade has become an attractive destination for airlines, just look, Tarom has added flights to Belgrade and already in the next season have added an additional flight. Same with Lot, in summer they operated five times a week the Belgrade-Warsaw route. Latvia's airBaltic launched four times a week flights to Belgrade and had a loadfactor of about 85% if I am not mistaken. Belgrade has also links to Dubai, something no other city in the ex-yu region has.
When you take all this and then take what Zagreb has, the Croats should really ask themselves why are they here where they are today?
Over the past twenty years Croatia has had it much easier than Serbia, especially when it came to the Western funding of projects. However that nationalistic and huligan country called Serbia managed to completely renew its terminal and modernize it.
It should really make you think...
Поздрав из Београда. А за оне који пљују предлажем да дођу и да се увере зажто је у Београду стварно најлепше!
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ReplyDelete