Soon in Zagreb?
North American Airlines has been named as the charter airline interested in commencing flights from New York JFK Airport to Zagreb. The CEO of Zagreb Airport, Tonči Peović, revealed the news at a press conference last week. Zagreb is trying to attract North American by waiving landing fees. However, the two sides are still negotiating. Peović believes that the Zagreb Tourism Board should subsidise the airline by buying some 100 seats per flight. He continues by saying that the service will be profitable if the aircraft has a 65% cabin load factor. The new flights will operated either by a Boeing B757-200 or the B767-300.North American Airlines is based at Kennedy Airport in New York. It operates scheduled flights within the United States and South America. The airline relies heavily on charters during the summer.
Talks between Zagreb Airport and North American Airlines are set to be finalised within the next few weeks.
Hmmm... one can suppose that they still do not have the funds to subsidize these flights.
ReplyDeleteThis starts to look a bit odd at this point.
I don't even understand why the airport is willing to subsidize the flights. If there's a direct market for flights to Zagreb the airlines will come. If people in the US are wanting to come to Croatia they can, on reputable airlines. The subsidy is even more puzzling because it's to a charter company. Once the subsidize are withdrawn North American Airlines is out of there! The whole thing is just absurd. That's balkan business for ya!
ReplyDeleteSorry for going off topic! Another article:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sarajevo-x.com/bih/clanak/110201042
Some more articles, hehe, sorry people:
ReplyDelete- http://www.sarajevo-x.com/bih/politika/clanak/110131124
- http://www.sarajevo-x.com/bih/clanak/110131096
At least its flights from JFK, but again what is with these charters?
ReplyDeleteIt seems Lukavi Bosanac missed planet, definetly!
ReplyDeleteWhat happened to United?
ReplyDeleteCongrats to Zagreb. Although the flights are not yet confirmed, at least we know there is actually interest. And again, if this route is established. Then Croatia and Serbia will have different routes to North America allowing the Ex-Yu people to use both to get to America and Canada which is nice. That's the kind of competition that's healthy for our market.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to United Airlines or some more respectable carrier, I do not think they will come for quite some time for 2 reasons. First, they are not allowed to establish such links due to Lufthansa not wanting them to. Lufthansa will bully them into not opening the direct line, and making them lose customers. Plus Croatia Airlines is in Star Alliance, and Lufthansa will compensate them by allowing them to codeshare on flights from Germany to USA. The second, is that there is still uncertainty about the profits from these flights. That's why the big boys are letting small charters discover the potential and if it is good enough, then they will too establish air links (more likely for Belgrade than Zagreb due to Lufthansa as I said in my first point).
In the end though, if all works out, Zagreb to New York, and Belgrade to Toronto and Chicago. Like I said this is healthy competition which allows the two airports to compete for first place, and allows the each other to get profit off of routes to different destinations in the same continent. Congratulations to Zagreb, and I wish you the best with these flights.
I please ask Ex-Yu Aviation to let us know when he flights have been confirmed. Thanks.
@ the last Anonymous (before @Jeeb)
ReplyDeleteThere are 2 basic kinds of people who write here - those who know something about civil aviation, and those who know that an airplane can fly, and everything stops there.
When you read posts here, you should be able to make the difference between the 2. Otherwise, it's waste of time.
Nobody serious, who know something about civil aviation, NEVER mentioned here possibility that charters ZAG-NYC, announced for this summer, will be operated by UA.
UA (United Airlines) is Star Alliance member, as well as OU (Croatia Airlines). Starting probably with the next summer timetable, much much more code-share between UA and OU is going to happen, on SCHEDULED flights, and OU will be selling some seats on flights from Europe to North America, maybie even between U.S. cities, despite the fact that those flights are operated by UA. The same goes for UA seats on OU flights in Europe. However, in some later phase, I wouldn't be surprised if UA starts direct services to ZAG. But definitely not for this summer's announced charters.
About a week ago, I posted here info that summer charters ZAG-NYC, if they come to realization, will be operated by North American Airlines B767. If the service starts, it will be predominantly for US tourists visiting Croatia, as part of HUGE action organized this year by HTZ (Croatian tourist board), which include increased advertising and subsidies for charter operators which bring tourists to Croatia, from all important markets, in Europe, the U.S. and the Far East.
The day after tommorow, and only a week after Croatia's cat1 FAA IASA rating, croatian minister of foreign affairs and Hillary Clinton will sign in Washington US-HR Open Sky Agreement, which will enable, if not this summer then definitely 2012, direct scheduled services between 2 countries, to start, too.
@ pozdrav iz rijeke
ReplyDeleteI think you are right
@ jeeb
As long as flights are coming to Balkan it is good and I agree on that.
North american airlines is decent airline. Just onw thing I want to mention, 65% load factor enough for route to become success? I think this director of Zagreb airport missed for some 20% the right amount.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I wouldn`t take this info on possible ZAG-NYC flights as something spectacular, because Zagreb tourist authorities will finance 100 seats per flight.
ReplyDeleteHypotetically, if they finance 160 seats, could we expect daily flights to ZAG (or to any other airport anywhere in the world)?
I agree with Peter from Sidney on very strange and heavy involvment of ZAG`s CEO in this story, especially having in mind that ZAG is operating on top of its capacity.
Furthermore, total potential of ZAG now can be questionable after boosting performances of coastal airports in HR. By that I mean that they are less and less feeders to ZAG and more and more self sufficient.
@ Aero
ReplyDeleteLot of people here say Belgrade has more to offer to a (western)tourist than Zagreb. And I agree. But then they say it automatically means more tourists=passengers. Here is where I don't agree. I think today, with good marketing, you can sell anything. Even Zagreb to Americans. And I must admit that Croatian tourist board is working hard lately, and gets better and better results marketing-wise. And more and more tourists today are looking for more than just sun and sea. That's why I think that this charters are planned for US tourists coming to Zagreb, continental HR, north adriatic, Slovenia (there is Agreement on HR/SLO co-operation in tourism)...
I agree completely with you about adriatic airports being more and more self sufficient, and I think it's not idea (generally) that these flights are to be fed from/to adriatic airports. I'm pretty sure, too, that very very soon, we shall see direct NYC-DBV charters.
I think, too, that this part saying about half of the seats possibly financed by Zagreb airport or tourist authorities is a bit strange. In my opinion, it could be misinterpreted information which says that seats on those flights are going to be more or less equaly "split" between US and croatian tourist agencies, and therefore "kind" of passengers - tourists or diaspora.
Concerning ZAG capacity - there are "peak hours" when it's impossible to find a place for a needle in the terminal and the apron( 7-10 am and 1-4 pm ). Time between 10 pm and 1 pm is period of very slow traffic at the airport, and ideal time to handle a/c from North America).
correction : time between 10 AM and 1 pm
ReplyDelete@ pozdrav iz Rijeke
ReplyDeleteI respect your attitude and your contribution here.
Best regards from Belgrade
Tp be precise peek hours in ZAG are:
ReplyDelete07.15 - 8.30
13.00 - 14.15
17.15 - 18.00
Havy traffic is also between
8.30.-9.30
12.30-13.00
20.30-21.15
But in that time there is still free space even for charters (Trade air usualy fly ad hoc charters at 9.00)
Here is information that was sent to my e-mail by Ryan International:
ReplyDelete"Thank you for your recent inquiry about the announcement of Ryan International Airlines providing flights from Chicago to Belgrade. While we appreciate your interest in this exciting news we do not, at this time, have details for you. As details come available they will all be posted. Thank you.
Pamela Ratmeyer
Ryan International Airlines"
@Purger
ReplyDeleteGood JOB! Finally someone is trying to actually find out instead of just guessing and ending everything on ZAG vs BEG rivalary.
Except per my opinion, you should focus into finding out more actual details instead of proving that ZAG will have flights and BEG will not. If you want to find out about this project wasn't that just naive that you just send an email and ask? Do you think anyone would give operational info before everything is done?
Now,Ryan is in fact very very smart here. Not giving up any info until everything said is done. I love their way of thinking. Love it. I heard that also Serbian Consulate contacted them and tried to find out more, and they just said when all deposits and guarantees are done we will inform everyone. I like that. Pros before ho's. That is how you do business and keep politics out of the loop.
When it comes to subsiding NYC-ZAG flights, I think that is really good idea. I also think Zagreb airport is doing right thing by wanting to help startup of this charter. I just dont think they will be able to deliver nothing else, not because of them but because of politics. It will be hard but you never know. I would be glad that, ZAG,BEG and DBV all have flights to US. It would bring former YU into favourable position in becoming something its teritorial destiny is for ages. Transit center. Bring the big boys, bring the services, bring pax, bring cargo make them come. Takes time and money. When they come economy and stability goes up. My opinion is that Serbia should be cargo/pax transit station and tax free zone,while Croatia should be vacation and pax transit zone. With those two settled, Bosnia could use that and grow also. You want stability in Balkan, real stability?
ReplyDeleteBring in the money! You bring the money only by allowing capital and people to flow in every direction. That is why even if ZAG pays for all tickets for 5 years it has sense. Only if politics does not get involved.
In response to a few comments in this thread, how are the airports in Belgrade and Zagreb competing or developing a rivalry?
ReplyDeleteIf I were intending to travel between New York and Belgrade, I would never consider flying to Zagreb, followed by taking a bus or train to Belgrade. Why? There are numerous convenient connections through western Europe with reputable carriers to get to and from Belgrade. Similarly, one would feel the same way when intending to travel between Toronto or Chicago to Zagreb.
Quite frankly, small carriers such as North American or Ryan International can never compare to reputable names such as United, American, Northwest, Air Canada, etc.
Lastly, I do not see the point to heavily subsidize a charter airliner to fly to Zagreb. How does the airport gain from this? It seems to me that prestige is more important than making appropriate market decision. Keep in mind that transit passengers are a very unlikely scenario.
Charter JFK-ZAG is big disapointment. That is even stupid to spend money on. Charter like Ryan to BEG and NAA to ZAG will never attract lot of passangers. Most of them will still fly by big companies (United, Delta, American, British, Lufthansa, Air France, Virgin...). Those 4.000 pax is no influance at all and will not have any influance on development of airports. Like JAL and Korean charters does not have any influance in ZAG development, or SkyService to ZAG and BEG.
ReplyDeleteThose are charters, they will bring some of tourists (family), but nothing else. And they will leave same second whan they will not get subventions or whan they will find that flights nonprofitable.
@Purger
ReplyDeleteYou might be wrong. Here is why...those in the Ex-Yu region living in Canada, Chicago, Cleveland and anywhere else close to these destinations, have a direct link to Belgrade now. They are accustomed to going through 3-4 airports before finally landing at BEG. Think about cutting that to just 1-2 airports, and with the same price. That is why the Chicago and Toronto to BEG flights make sense and could be very profitable. The big airlines might come if they see that Ryan is having good enough profit. I do not know enough about ZAG though, so I refuse to make any judgment on that subject.
To all:
DBV-USA flights make sense, as Dubrovnik is yet to be discovered by Americans, and this is the time where Croatia is getting close to its peak in the tourist market. However, I will admit that it is very unlikely such flights will take place due to the incredible rise in domestic tourism in USA. Americans love to go to Amsterdam, Paris, London, Barcelona, and places that are party cities, have a young drinking age, and are not that expensive, but well-known. I am not sure that Zagreb can compete as such a city, but Belgrade sure can. In fact, Americans are predicted to be the second largest group of people to attend the EXIT festival in Novi Sad within the next 2-3 years. That's how much Belgrade is becoming popular. So I can see a bright future for Belgrade if they play their cards right. As for Zagreb, don't really see much potential (sorry). But for Dubrovnik, they have something to offer. And they should offer it ASAP before the market gets even more competitive with Brazil, India, and the rest of Latin America rising among the tourist ranks.
And Purger, I would like to know if Ryan is planning on also starting JFK-BEG flights as well. They made a claim saying this, and I would be very much interested if they are. If in fact Ryan is also including a NYC-BEG flight plan, then we might begin to see some ZAG-BEG rivalry. But the fact that Croatia and Belgrade are connected means that they can use each other for such flights. And I am sure that people from both countries will use the other to go to their US destinations. Croats use Belgrade to get to Chicago and Toronto, Serbs use Zagreb to get to NYC. I like it...brings the region closer.
Zagreb not lot of potential?
ReplyDeleteZagreb has for me more touristic potential than BEG. The cities itselves u might could discuss, but the surounding areas such as Plitvice,Slovenia,Coast/Istria,Steiermark,Venice/Friuli,Balaton,Mostarattract for sure more tourists
Buying powers of Croatians/Slovenians is higher than of Serbs and this will remain for sure for another 1-2 decades
Business potential is right now better for CRO/SLO, will see how Serbia will develop.
Ethnic Traffic for both probably similar. So in the near future I see more potential for Zagreb for a UA or CO flight to the US, codesharing OU and if they are smart, will let JP codeshare as well if they are still alive by then. LJU-ZAG with the highway plus/- 60 minutes
Also OU has a better network than JU with more frequent flights to surounding cities such as SPU,DBV,VIE,SJJ,PRN where transit passengers could board.
Star Alliance is Star Alliance and if a USA flight in VIE is full, they wld also sell it via ZAG...
Again BEG have potentials and ZAG doesn't? But now I will be nationalist whan I put numbers.
ReplyDelete2010:
BEG 0,5 million tourist
ZAG 0,6 million tourist
BEG 1,4 million overnights
ZAG 1,2 million overnights
Diaspora in USA - official numbers by USA buiro of census:
Croatians 374.241
Serbs 140.337
Diaspora in USA - estimate by gouvernment (Ministry of diaspora of Serbia, and Ministry of forein affairs of Croatia*)
Croats 1,2 million
Serbs 0,7 million
Chicago (estimate by gouvernment*):
Serbs 200.000
Croatis 150.000
* data from offitial sites of those Ministry
Actually, there are well established flights from USA to Venice, so not much of a potential for Zagreb about western/central Slovenia, Istria&Kvarner.Not to mention regions of Veneto and Friuli!!!Also many Slovenians got very used of using Venice airport, for example fom Lj, it's almost the same going to VCE or to ZAG, and VCE has very good connections around Europe and N.America, many flights with reasonable prices.Something that ZAG will never see!!Not to mention (for all the FR fans) a nearby Ryan-Port,airport of Treviso.
ReplyDeleteMost of the airport in region have alternative. BEG in BUD, ZAG in BUD and VIE... By this logic there would be no more flights exampt domestic one and those to very close destinations.
ReplyDeleteCharters USA-ex YU are for sure point-to-point flights, and they do not calculate on transit pax. Whan SkyService had flight to ZAG there were buses from Slovenia, North Bosnia and some cities around, but for sure not from Istria.
But if there would be any Star Alliance carier to fly USA to ZAG with conections to CTN for sure there would be some transit pax even from Istria and lot of them from Dalmatia, BiH, Macedonia...
@JU520
ReplyDeleteZargeb is a much smaller city than Belgrade, which makes all the difference. Belgrade will also have direct routes with banjas, other cities, and a highway to Romanian and Montenegrin coast. It will have more developed infrastructure than Zagreb due to heavy European, Israeli, American, and soon Chinese investments. Not to mention that it will become regional capital (as proclaimed by the OSCE, the EU, the Council of Europe, and USA) of Balkan region. So Belgrade has more tourist potential than Zagreb now and in the future. Of course Croatia in general has more tourist potential than Serbia, and this has been tapped into, but not in the case of capital cities.
@Purger
You should take English 101. Again, I never said Zagreb did not have potential, I stated that Belgrade had more. Once again this is because it is the only airport in Serbia that has major flights and connections, so it is heavily used. The difference is it is becoming used as a transit airport as well, hence the new connecting flights. Croatian and Serbian airports have the most potential out of all Ex-Yu, and this is because Croatia has its coast, and Serbia has Belgrade. Hence, why Serbia can invest all of its sources into one airport, while Croatia cannot. This allows Belgrade to have more potential than Zagreb (also I am not even mentioning the location of Belgrade is the most ideal).
Of course Zagreb is much smaller that Beograd. ZAG have 2,0 million pax on 0,8 million inhabitants. BEG have 2,7 million pax on 1,7 milion inhabitants. Sapienti sat!
ReplyDeleteAnd about possition of Belgrade. Most of traffic from ZAG and BEG goes to West and Central Europe. Deviation from ex YU to this market by ZAG is much better then BEG. BEG is much to East for that and deviation is too big. Only market that is near to ZAG deviation from BEG is Macedonia. That is reason why ZAG had much more flights to West and Central Europe during Jugoslavia than BEG.
And to prevent "stupit story abotu nationalisam". Deviationa is angle on which rote of the plane from point 1 to point 2 most go if there is transit via point 3. Take rote SJJ-AMS via BEG or via ZAG and you will see angle and deviation. Now find deviation in SJK-BRU, CDG, LHR, BCN, MAD, ZRH, VIE, MUC, FRA, DUS, CPH, PRG, FCO...
And please do not tolk about what will be in hugh investment. Here we say "prvo skoci pa reci hop". But what is sure. Next year Croatia will be in EU, there will be no visa to USA (from end of this year). Tell me is that potential?
As neither a Serb nor Croat let me say that Zagreb has the edge vs Belgrade not because of passengers drawn directly to the city, but because of its easier connections to the Adriatic coast which is a huge draw for North American tourists. I know that many people have written that Belgrade has more to offer a tourist than Zagreb, but realize it doesn't have as much to offer as Zagreb, Split, and Dubrovnik combined.
ReplyDeleteNobody in the region couldn't calculate with US market arrivals like Dubrovnik. Nower days it is usual that cruise ship with more then 2500 visitors from US call Dubrovnik.
ReplyDeleteIn the past, forty to thirty years ago, as I remember, one or two widebodies from US/Canada on the airport tarmac was normal occurance.
Any othert destination in the South Eastern Europe has no priority in comparisson to Dubrovnik due to historical facts & figures. If Dubrovnik reach 20% of the US arrivals numbers from the seventies and eighties, two widebodies weakly in the spring-summer and autumn season will be not sufficient.
All of the above are pure facts,
excuse me, kind regards
from Dubrovnik (the pearl of Adriatic)
Dubrovnik is definitly interesteng location. The best in exYU...
ReplyDeleteBut whan you tolk about historical figures, then be precise:
DBV 2 intercontinental flights per week
BEG 12 intercontinental flights per week
ZAG 15 intercontinental flights per week (including JAT, Pan American and Air Canada).
About ZAG potential, Anonymous is apsolutly wright. All Japan and Korean charters are combination with Adriatic cost. Most of the tourist routes have toure like:
(flight) ZAG - Plitvice - Zadar - Split - DBV (flight)
In some of the tours they even have Bled, Ljubljana, Budapest...
...or some other combination.
off-topic (or maybie not?)
ReplyDeleteCSA is announcing Prague-Hanoi scheduled flights, with intermediate stop in Kazahstan (think Astana, but not sure),
on A320 (????).
Even with no long-range aircraft, maybie an ex-yu airline could try something similar ( direction east or south, of course)...
@pozdrav iz Rijeke
ReplyDeleteCSA Czech Airlines has infact already announced its resumption of services to Hanoi. The flights will route via Kazakhstan not Astana but the southern city of Almaty, services will be 3 weekly from June till September when they will reduce to 2 weekly. The flights are operated by Airbus A320-200, they are the Third Eastern European to have flights to Hanoi with LOT's new flights from Warsaw opb 767-300ER and Aeroflots serivces from Moscow operated by A330-200 and Il-96-300, although Vladivostok Avia serves Hanoi from VVO but these flights are purley Asiatic not European.
Just to mention JAT does operate a flight to Dubai with a 737-300 so that is compareable but obviously not half as long. None of the ex-yu nation have any intrest to start flights to South-East Asia since there is virtually no market for them
I think there should be some things cleared up. First of all, Zagreb flights are not even confirmed. Belgrade flights are. So please stop talking like it's a done deal because it is not. NAA can pull the plug any time.
ReplyDeleteSecond, Zagreb and he Croatian tourist board is financing these flights. Ryan flights are not being financed by Belgrade Airport or Serbia in any way. The tourist/business firm that negotiated for the flights does not have any connection to Serbia, which simply proves that Americans are eyeing the Serbian market. I do not care how much people do not believe, this...this is a fact.
Third, Croatia is not going to enter the EU until at least 2013. All the heads of Croatia's EU candidacy announced this not so long ago. And Bulgaria and Romania are also going to cause trouble for Croatia for their own needs. Not to mention that Serbia is demanding hat Croatia begins to stop neglecting the Serbian refugee problem there. And with this MArty report out, you can bet that the EU and US (not to mention China and Russia) will force Croatia to comply with this. In fact, Amnesty International was seen talking and criticizing the EU for not taking action on this matter yet. So better wait for the EU for some time my Croats.
Fourth, someone mentioned flights to Southeast Asia. This will not happen for a long time. Right now, the Ex-Yu countries should focus on diaspora of their own and then foreigners. In Serbia's case, they are having more Chinese move in their country every year, so this may potentially set up flights to China, but I cannot see it going further beyond that.
Fifth, people are forgetting that the entire European and N. American continent agreed that Belgrade will be a regional hub and base for aviation. It's newly built air traffic control tower is going to oversee the whole Balkan region including the Adriatic. This means that every other control tower WILL BE SHUT DOWN. Once again, giving Belgrade an edge.
Sixth, Croatia relies solely on seasonal flights. Zagreb is the only airport that has more year-round flights. This is not good for aviation business. Once again, I cannot understand how people fail to realize this, but some people are stupid.
Seventh, Belgrade and Serbia are underdeveloped. Every world-reknown intellectual and economist (including Slavoj Zizek or whatever the Slovenian guy's name is) has claimed that Serbia will overtake Croatia's GDP Per Capita some years after its economic boom...which is not far away. And everyone likes to invest in a booming country...including airlines.
Eighth, I know this may sound awkward, but if Turkish takes over JAT (and we all hope they don't), they may transform Belgrade as a hub for Turkish (indirectly through JAT of course). Turkish could make Belgrade bigger in the region, with new flights and better connections if all goes well.
@Purger
Flights to Zagreb were not intended. It was used to get to Belgrade, which was the point of interest. Not Zagreb. Please remember that.
Now I just unswer to this "unntaionalist" and real man, and for sure by doing this I will again be nationalist.
ReplyDeleteBelgrade flights are also not confirmed. I qoute here statement of Ryan Internatonal that was sent to me:
"Thank you for your recent inquiry about the announcement of Ryan International Airlines providing flights from Chicago to Belgrade. While we appreciate your interest in this exciting news we do not, at this time, have details for you. As details come available they will all be posted. Thank you.
Pamela Ratmeyer
Ryan International Airlines"
So I think that is tipical for journalist to put "line is confirmed" instead "we negotiate to fly on line". Which sourse, exempt journalist (who are well known to be informed) can confirme that. Nothing on BEG official site, nothing on Ryan International site, noone sell ticket, no agency or reservation center to put this information.
In same time line Zagreb - Toronto Hamilton was put on sale throw agency flygogojet. But as their web page now have some "problems" I did not find this as reliable source. Ticket for Belgrade routs were not sale there are not for sale even now.
Are you sure that this lines to BEG will not be subvenced? If that was not in statement that does not mean it is not fact. But someone was claver enough not to put it public. I would not if I am the one to spend money on that.
"Air traffic control tower is going to oversee the whole Balkan region including the Adriatic". Since whan control towers are controle air-trafic? Hahahaha... In normaln World control towers control airport trafic and movement, but just in Belgrade they control all region. Congretulaions.
Yes SPU, DBV, PUY, ZAD, RJK, BWK, OSI, LSZ are sesonal airports but what is conclusion on that? At least those airports have traffic and in Serbia you have just BEG, nothing else, so no extra seasonal flight. Croatian traffic all together is bigger out of season than Serbian, and in season much bigger than Serbian. But you have to know that all managers of croatian airport alsways point that croatian airports are not competition but thay act as one to colaborate.
Now, whan you told us about Slavoj Zizek I start to realise that fact. Zizek is marxist and hegelist philosopher from Slovenia, and by this he is real authority in macro-economic area. And even women which sels paprika in market told me something like this! After statement of my paprika-sels women I am sure that in 5-6 mounths you BDP will go 100% up. And Croatia will sleep on that time and stop progress just to make you and Zizek happy.
And about Turkish I can see how great job thay made in Bosnia. I am impressed. They made almost 2% of what they promissed.
Concerning flights to ZAG that was ment to BEG. You have crystal bowl or you just dream about it?
@Purger
ReplyDeleteI will concede that the flights are not confirmed yet, but they will be shortly. And I hope we can agree that the likelihood of those flights is greater than for New York to Zagreb.
As for the control tower, I have nothing to say...I will let the EU, US, OSCE, Council of Europe, and any other European organization that includes Italy, France, UK, and Germany answer those questions for they are the ones regionalizing, and deciding.
Seasonal charters bring traffic...correct, as I also said. There are rumors that Nis is being transformed into a cargo airport, and will handle all the cargo going to Serbia, and Batajnica will be transformed into a joint military-civil airport in order to handle all diverted flights from BEG. But the fact that BEG is the only airport in Serbia other than Pristina which is too far away, gives it a bonus when it comes to investors. No competition, only one destination, and it still is cheap. So it has the greatest potential for this reason.
And you may criticize Zizek as much as you like, the man is considered by the rest of the world as an intellectual. And Chomsky, and many others agree with what I was saying. f you think you are smarter than the 20 smartest people on earth...then you have some ego to go with your nationalism.
There was an interesting seminar on the Balkan economy today @ my school. This businessman was explaining how the main problem in Ex-Yu is that they need each other, but they stay away from each other. The problem is that Croatia and Slovenia are afraid that by re-integrating their economies with Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia, etc. they are being pulled into a reincarnation of Yugoslavia. In a way, that is the case, but that is the best thing for their economies since they are all so small. Croatia relies on tourism. As does Montenegro. Macedonia and Bosnia are in a mess and their economies reflect that. Serbia is on the rise, and like some have said, is predicted to boom soon. Slovenia is very well developed and will overtake Italy and Israel very soon. But the point is that they need each other. We need each other. I do not care where you are from, or who you identify yourself with. In fact, The Economist created an article saying how a recreation of Yugoslavia would benefit every country economically. I personally have nothing against Slovenes, Croats, or whoever. I hope you all have the mutual feeling. And it is people like Purger, LukaviBosanac, and the Anonymouses, that reflect only the bad things, but not the good. As far as the airports are concerned, let them work together. linking the Croatian coast with Belgrade was necessary, but slowed for political reasons. STUPID. But I repeat, that was the last generation. The next one needs to understand that we are all Slavic brothers, and my wish is not to create another Yugoslavia, but to work together and cooperate as a team. I would love to go to Croatia and enjoy the coastline as if it was my own. I would love to see Croats party in Belgrade like it is their own. And in the airline industry, I would love to see all the Ex-Yu airlines merge and compete with Lufthansa, Austrian, and all the other airlines who take us for granted as transit pax. And who knows, maybe there will be a Balkan Airways in that sense...
ReplyDeleteI am from Romania and I live in Bucharest. I would just like to say that Romanians are counting on both Zagreb and Belgrade for USA flights. Budapest is the commonly used airport, but is increasingly expensive. I hope that Belgrade Airport gets USA flights to make cheaper for us Romanians. You can count on us for those flights Serbs!
ReplyDeleteThose that thing I am nationalist are totally wrong! But totally wrong. I can not understand how someone who write statistic data is nationalist. Than truth is completely different. Nationalist is the one who ignore statistic data and just speculate on national propaganda and with nonsense pamphlets (“we are the best”, “we are the biggest”, “intellectuals told us we will be Balkan metropolis”, “we are going up, you are going down” etc. etc.). Do not feed yourself with pamphlets and always try to check propaganda (doesn’t meter where it comes from) with facts and statistic data.
ReplyDeleteTo show you how nationalist I am I will share with you one e-mail that was sent to me yesterday:
Dear Mr. Scuric,
Thank you for your email regarding flights to Zagreb. Zagreb is one of the many destinations that we are currently doing a feasibility study of. However, we have made no decision on operating flights to Zagreb or any other city at this moment. If your travel plans include Zagreb as a destination, you may wish to consider alternative possibilities.
We do appreciate your interest. and thank you again for contacting North American Airlines.
With regards,
Robert L. Du Bois
Director of Charter Services
Global Aviation Holdings
Sharing emails is not what makes you a nationalist. It's the fact that you take data, and you portray Croatia like it is superior to everything else. That is what is nationalistic. I could not care for the evidence that you put. The message written after is that Serbs are bad, Belgrade is lower than Zagreb, or some other bullshit. It's like me putting data that Belgrade carried more pax than Zagreb, and then ending with, and that is why Croats are wrong, Zagreb has less potential than Belgrade.
ReplyDeleteInstead, you should be thinking about how the airports could help each other and not fight against one another. In modern day, people care about markets and the future potential...nothing else. None of the Ex-Yu countries have any sort of market that is large enough to attract notable investors. Croatia has the coast, Slovenia is already developed, and Serbia just has booming Belgrade. Not enough!!! They need each other, and it's assholes like you that simply refuse to acknowledge that because of some fear that Yugoslavia will be reincarnated. I for one enjoyed being Yugoslav (and I enjoy being Serb). But I will gladly take pride in holding hands with Croats, Bosnians, and whoever, and living in that country again.
"The message written after is that Serbs are bad, Belgrade is lower than Zagreb"
ReplyDeleteWhere on earth did you read this? I have lot of friends Serbs, one of my employees is Serb (I personally choose him), and I work a lot with Serbs. That what you write here is totally wrong.
“and that is why Croats are wrong, Zagreb has less potential than Belgrade”
No, that is not fact. Data confirm that you are not right! Yes, maybe Belgrade will be better that Zagreb in 10 years, 20 or 30. But today it is not. And in another 5-10 it will be not. Will ZAG take advantage of that maybe yes, maybe not! But four now that is fact.
In same time I always say that Montenegro is much better company than Croatia. Is this make me Montenegrin nationalist. Also I glorify Lufthansa, Turkish, Delta… Is this make me German, Turkish or USA nationalist? Yes I think Juventus is much better than Dinamo. Am I Italian nationalist? I drive Suzuki not Yugo. Am I Japanese nationalist? This is not nationalism but reality. And that is what you don’t have. For years Jat plans to make Balkan alliance (remember this), than LCC with ATR, than they make statement that Montenegro will bankrupt if it will not get under Jat, than to lease 767 and open USA routes, than that in 2010 Jat will make 50% rise of pax (to 1,5 million) etc etc. Why? Because they still think they are in Yugoslavia. Jat than was just middle-size company and now is just very small one. But they are not real.
“Instead, you should be thinking about how the airports could help each other and not fight against one another”.
Super, if there is interest in it, like there is between ZAG, SPU, DBV, PUY, FRA, MUC… But BEG and ZAG are competition. And to fight is not nationalism but capitalism. Sorry, but we are 20 years from “brotherhood” and so called “collaboration”.
“…some fear that Yugoslavia will be reincarnated”. Super for you, but that will not happen. Slovenia is in EU, Croatia will be there soon. One day Serbia also. And there will be no Yugoslavia any more. We can discuss about this, is this good, and was then better, for ages. But this is not blog about that, and be real. That is fact!
@Purger
ReplyDeleteIf you read carefully, I was using the "and that is why Croats are wrong, Zagreb has less potential than Belgrade" as an analogy and I was not serious. I would prefer that you detect sarcasm and sincerity.
And if you want to talk about data, Every European Aviation organization including airlines such as Emirates, Lufthansa, Austrian, and Turkish, have said that Belgrade has one of the best positions in Europe, allowing it access to East and West easily. Belgrade nearly has 3 million pax. Zagreb doesn't even have 2.5 million. Belgrade is rising faster than Zagreb percentage-wise. That is FACT. And then you claim that Belgrade is inferior to Zagreb. What a joke.
And once again, you are a nationalist because you glorify all that is Croatian when you can. You manipulate data by giving it, and then ending with a statement saying Croatia is superior to all when in fact this WAS the case, but not anymore. And your statement on cooperation is also proving this. You do not mind that Croatian and German airports cooperate, but Belgrade is unthinkable because it is in competition with Zagreb. So are all other airports!!! But because it's Belgrade, it's bad and evil.
In regards to your last paragraph...I can only say you should enroll yourself in an English course because you clearly do not have any reading comprehension. I ma saying that it is people like you that are afraid of cooperation between Serbia and Croatia because of some stupid paranoid theory that this will reincarnate Yugoslavia. Of course this will not happen. It's because of people like you that it ended, and it will never happen. I'm proud of being Serb, and nothing could change that, but I am not afraid to cooperate with Croats if it is in my interest and theirs. I guess this is what separates smart people from dumbasses.
“And then you claim that Belgrade is inferior to Zagreb”
ReplyDeleteAnd where did you read this? Once again I said that BEG is bigger than ZAG, and that ZAG have bigger potential than BEG. BEG was capital, JAT preferred BEG, Yugoslavia build there new terminal enough for another 30 year, and ZAG was not “so lucky” our terminal was the oldest and even in 1985 it was overcapacity. But no one did not care. Anyhow ZAG has 2,0 million pax on just 0,8 million inhabitants, and BEG has 2,7 million pax in 1,7 million inhabitants. That means ZAG has 2,5 pax on one inhabitant, and BEG 1,5 pax on one inhabitant.
“You are a nationalist because you glorify all that is Croatian when you can”. That is nationalism? In first year of every high school you learn what nationalism is. I am sorry that you don’t know about it. I never said “Croats are better than Serbs” or “Serbs are inferior nation”, or “I hate Serbs”. I don’t mean that. I always, but always react on sentence like “BEG is much better than ZAG”, “BEG have more potential”, “BEG is capital of Balkans”… Just react.
“Statement saying Croatia is superior to all when in fact this WAS the case, but not anymore”
I never say so! Can you show me where I said so? But isn’t this, by your standard, nationalism when you say here “WAS, but not anymore”.
“You do not mind that Croatian and German airports cooperate, but Belgrade is unthinkable because it is in competition with Zagreb”
Again you have to go to school to learn how to read. I said that if there is interest ZAG has to cooperate with airports. If that is VIE, FRA, MUC, SPU, DBV, PUY, like today, they cooperate. But if not they are competition. And that is fact. CTN is feeder to LH. I don’t like it. But that is fact. And that is why ZAG have interest with ZRH, MUC, VIE, FRA. Trust me I would much rather see ZAG cooperate with BEG than FRA, MUC or VIE.
“So are all other airports!!! But because it's Belgrade, it's bad and evil.”
You never, but absolutely never, can read about it in my posts. That shows how you look at it. Not me. And than try to ask yourself who is here nationalist.
As far as I am concerned Purger, you managed to piss off people and they decided not to blog anymore because of YOU and your ideas.
ReplyDeleteI will only say this...if you think you are smarter than every single European organization, the USA, China, and Russia, then I applaud your ego. I feel sorry for you, and nothing else.
And for the last fucking time:
You are giving the perception that Croatia/Zagreb is better by giving statistics, and then including sentences or ideas that one is better than the other. Call it nationalism, patriotism, or whatever, but it is disgusting and if you continue, I might just have to quit this blog just like others have done so.
To Ex-Yu Aviation:
I request that you begin censoring Purger more, as he has already made your blog less popular, and he is defeating the purpose of this blog. I do not have anything against someone having a different view that Zagreb has more potential, but to constantly include this all the time (even when it is not appropriate) is truly diminishing the value of your blog. I only ask that you take this request seriously. Anyone else that has problems as well please request this too.
I request that Purger be censored
ReplyDeleteJeebs, you are absolutely right. PCP: Please Censor Purger.
ReplyDeleteThis is an official request for censoring Purger. There is absolutely no need to have him here any longer.
ReplyDelete@Ex-Yu
ReplyDeleteCensor Purger ASAP...I just had enough of him...and I'm Croatian!
I have to agree with Jeebs on this one. Purger, you are just too annoying and too patriotic if that's what you call it. Please leave, or at least Ex-Yu start censoring him.
ReplyDeleteI cast my vote for censoring Purger
ReplyDeleteAs far as I am concerned. I can understand that Purger is a nationalist or an extreme patriot. But these extremes are unhealthy not only to those here, but to you Purger too. My advice is to just stop blogging until you can control your emotions and "patriotic" or "nationalist" thoughts. I mean I consider myself to be a relative patriot...but I never bring it here to this blog. And if others do it, just tell them so shut up, or ignore it man. You are just as bad as any other nationalist by blogging like you are.
ReplyDelete