Soon in Belgrade and Zagreb
In just over a month, flights between Chicago, Belgrade and Zagreb will commence, to be operated once per week by the charter carrier Swift Air, Ron Hansen, from the airline, told a press conference in Belgrade yesterday. The launch of the Chicago – Zagreb service has been postponed by a week and will now commence on June 20 while services to Belgrade will be inaugurated on June 17. Services will operate until September 11 (Belgrade) and September 14 (Zagreb), although the Serbian Civil Aviation Directorate has issued an operating license to the airline until December 29. Hansen said that Swift will consider continuing the service if it proves popular. During the winter season flights could operate once every 2 weeks.Swift Air believes it could carry up to 100.000 passengers between North America and the former Yugoslavia. The airline said the flights are in the national interest of both Croatia and Serbia. The Windy City has the largest population of Serbs outside of Belgrade with an estimated 400.000 ethnic Serbs living in the city. Tens of thousands of Croats are also estimated to live in Chicago.
Hansen told the press that if flights continue to record high booking numbers the airline will consider commencing services from New York City to the Croatian and Serbian capitals.
During the press conference the airline’s representatives said that flight times haven’t been completely finalised yet. To view preliminary flight details for each service click on the arrival city: Belgrade / Zagreb.
This is still not direct flight between BEG and ORD. If there is 400 thousand ethnic serbs, why this flight must be over ZAG? I would rather use Lufthansa or Air France.
ReplyDeleteIts direct flight from ORD to BEG, not over ZAG. But still, the prize is not that low. For the same money, you can buy Lufthansa or British airways ticket. That's the thing which is not fair. So, I would also prefer using of Lufthansa or even Alitalia.
ReplyDeleteHow much are tickets?
ReplyDeleteIf the price is really EUR 795 ex BEG, then it is cheaper than anything else. You can't find anything under EUR 820 (excluding service charge) normally. Considering that most people who would travel to CHI can't say a word of English and that they are petrified by the idea of roaming through an airport in Europe to catch a connecting flight, this offer is more than perfect.
ReplyDeleteflights are direct.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.flyairplus.com/flight-information/flight-schedule
They are a bit late for this summer season but what will competition will do?
ReplyDeleteIt would be nice to ask the agency representatives whether the TSA has on airlines demand inspected BEG or ZAG? Is there everything really set? And based on what have they formed the ticket prices when just visiting Belgrade to talk regarding airport fees?! Way from seriuos!
ReplyDelete100,000 pax per year? At once weekly on both ZAG and BEG with a Boeing 767-200ER that's mathematically impossible.
ReplyDeleteAt once weekly with 762 on both BEG and ZAG combined with 100% load factor I estimate 26,000 pax per year.
I've read that flights from Melbourne to Denpesar/Indonesia with 175,000 pax in last year, services operate nearly 2 daily with Garuda, Jetstar and Virgin Australia services on A330-200, A330-300 and 737-800. I mean how can this route have similar numbers to a 1 weekly charter service?
That 100 thousand pax per year is just as bogus as 400 thousand Serbs living in Chicago. If that were true then every 9th person in the city of Chicago would be of Serb decent. Not even the Irish or the Italians can make such a claim!
ReplyDeleteI hope Swift Air is not scared off too early if the numbers at first are not the greatest. It could take time, maybe even to next year to build a reputation and image as a real option to fly to the Ex Yu.
@Q400
ReplyDeleteI hope as you do that they have some patience and allow numbers to grow. Hopefully they won't be like many ex-yu airlines and cancel the route if 50 people don't buy tickets within hours of announcing the route.
ticket price:
ReplyDeleteORD-BEG 1282 USD = 877 EUR
BEG-ORD 1197 USD = 820 EUR
ORD-ZAG 1325 USD = 906 EUR
ZAG-ORD 1147 USD = 785 EUR
prices are for round trip.
so i think that we can fly way more cheaper with conections.
what we can get here is shoter time, and only two airports. what we losse: more money, and we dont have option for flying to/from other city like BEG-DTW or SKP_JFK.
doesn't make sense.
ReplyDeleteI just did a search on skyscanner.net and the prices on the major airlines are the same for this route.
Why would anyone buy a ticket on some fly-by-night operator for the same price and not collect any frequent flyer miles. An overseas trip earns you almost enough for a domestic trip.
I would take the shifty charter flight, but only if it were 20% cheaper at least.
@ Q400....
ReplyDeleteok what you don't get is not Serbs in Chicago downtown, use your head. this means Serbs in and AROUND the Chicago Area. PLUS many people from my city Cleveland and Indiana, Michigan, and Milwaukee will be using this charter...
@ Doot....
like someone said before, it is so much more worth is especially for people in Chicago to fly non-stop to Serbia. you just sit on plane in ORD and u get out at BEG, this simple....
My family was about to go ths summer, we would have flown from Cleveland to Chicago and then charter flight to BEG. It saved us about 100$ per person!! and IF we decided to ride a train or rent a car there thats about $200 per person, $800 for my family of 4... next summer if they have charters, we will 99% sure fly with them since we are going.
Aren't these flights from RFD and not ORD?
ReplyDelete@Aleks
ReplyDeleteYou would probably only do it once. I know my mom would see the old plane, outdated interior, lack of personal entertainment and immediately complain and think the plane was old and unsafe.
Imagine that Belgrade and Zagreb will have flights to Chicago and possibly NYC?! That is awesome!!! Congrats to both airports for being able to establish such flights.
ReplyDeleteThe only issue I see here is Zagreb's terminal expansion and construction of the airport while admitting such flights.
Off topic:
ReplyDeleteTonight Belgium officially requested suspension of the visa free regime for the citizens of Serbia.
Is this possible to happen?How would the growth in BEG would be affected?Possible implications for WizzAir in Serbia?!
@ Anonymous
ReplyDelete'The only issue I see here is Zagreb's terminal expansion and construction of the airport while admitting such flights.'
When (or if) construction of the new terminal in Zagreb begins, there should be little disruption to flight operations because it will be built in a different area of the airport, about 1km from the current terminal. But it would have been nice and better for Zagreb if the new terminal was already standing or at least being built.
@ all anonymous
ReplyDeleteHow malicious can you be?
Second anonymous that said he would rather fly with BA, NEEEEWSFLASH!!!
THERE IS NO BA CONNECTION TO BEG AS THEY DO NOT FLY TO BEG SINCE NOVEMBER 2010.
Lufthansa ticket is 1600$ and UP!
The guy that gave the prices and said that we can fly cheaper with connections? Could you find me connections to chicago cheaper please?
I do this for a living, and currently on the market there is nothing cheaper than this. Tickets from ORD-BEG in summer are 1550$ and up and tickets from BEG-ORD are 1300$ and up since 1st may.
Now, I have a question for all of you anonymous, is anyone of you purchasing tickets or is anyone of you flying at all... because to me it looks that last time you flew transatlantic was actualy flight from your computer to your bed....
People who are flying every summer and who did not have chance to purchase tickets until 1st may, do not have chance to save some bucks because airlines are currently killing with prices...
And this is from someone who actually knows about airline tickets and who lives from them, not from some malicious dude who just cant say "it is good that someone started at least something new".
And while Serbs are bs-ing Croats are actually filling those flights.
And I wonder, who will at the end get transatlantic flights from big boys... Bullshiters who talked about prices, aircrafts etc or people who invested in their countries promotion and purchased the tickets?
For that (again) anonymous that mentioned TSA, do you know that Zagreb airport passed TSA audit with highest remarks 2 months ago? And do you know that TSA does not check public charter destinations? TSA has security standards, and airlines has to show tests that those standards are met so TSA could approve check out... Do you think TSA who handles millions of pax a year goes to any country where charter operator flies to by call from an airline?!
TSA is called by Airport Authorities after application by CAA of applying countries for ICAO and FAA stadardization in category 1 is filled. Dude if you are talking about serious you need to know subject you are talking about... It takes balls for what these guys did, and I will sell their tickets with all my heart, because they deserve success as after 20 years they connected US with two cities completely unaware of how small and unimportant they are.
Airlines are forgeting Belgrade guys, BA out, AZ reduced connections, KL out, AF reduced connections, Only airline with proper connections left is LH. Sarajevo same. Zagreb is trying to save themself with approaching big ones and asking them to come, and from bottom of my heart I wish them success with that. But the bottom line is, economies in Croatia and Serbia are pittiful and until Long-haul busines pax do not come, there is no serious aviation anywhere.
you can take from lufthansa 30% of economy seats and they will not care nor notice,take one business pax from them and you will have wrath of god on your ass. And my friends aviation is money not immigrants or Anonymous bloggers...
Yes dusan !
ReplyDeletewell said. Positive and progressive thinking is what is needed. it is in our power to be the best promoters of our countries.
I'll just add that after the break-up of YU, Budapest for the first time established trans-atlantic routes to North America in 1992 just around the time
Zagreb was admitting UN and was on the borderline of the war zone and BEG got sanctioned.
In the years beforehand, Zagreb handled 1.6-1.9 mil, Beg was climbing close to 3.5, and Budapest stayed just slightly above Zagreb's 1,9 mil.
Today Budapest is killing both BEG and ZAG, with 8 mil pax a year !
My point - feed off Swift's initiatives, and project positive thoughts and ideas on this opportunity that could potentially bring tourists, diaspora, whoever to your cities.
I am from Zagreb, and what I see as a challenge in Croatia is an array of scepticism surrounding the idea for LDZA airport expansion.
Most of this comes from people (airport labor union) who don't give a damn about well-fare of the airport,nor city or country for that matter...but themselves.
The pitch one can often hear is how the new developer would be more interested in "snatching LDZA's profits" and is less interested into developing the new 200 mil EUR terminal - to me = wrong
as LDZA is currently nowhere near being a "cash-cow".
Also, the union demands something like a 10% ownership share from the new owner.
Although I am for the idea of respecting labor force and good human resource management, I think those people first need to work on their service and help LDZA start making big money for a change... I would hope that anyone here who used LDZA could agree to some extent ?
So, my hope is that we all will try to respect progressive initiatives, i.e. Swift air's decision to give a try.
Here in Croatia, I oblige myself to spread the positive vibes on the new terminal :)
As Dusan has said, both ZAG and BEG are insignificant, until we make them significant again.
Cheers :)
http://www.alitalia.com/EN_EN/BOOKING/TicketDetails.aspx
ReplyDeleteand its not charter, and its only 45 euros more, and u have almost 6000 miles which is 1 free ticket to Rome or Milan or Firenze. For people who live in US Swift is ok, but for us, who live in Serbia is much better to use Alitalia, because we can spend 1 weekend in Rome 4 free. We, people of Serbia love to travel a lot, as you know.
@ last Anonymous
ReplyDeleteWho gives you 4 days in Rome for free? Did you read what it said?
Pax pays for his stay in Rome, and trust me people from Serbia like to travel with their remote not by plane. Because they do not have money. Pax to Chicago, from both countries are not tourists, 40% of them never goes back to their country. 40% are mom dad, grandpa grandma helping with kids and 20 % are the ones that come and see it is to hard for them to stay. That ticket that you said on AZ, go fly with it and let me know when you come back how much money you spent at the end. Include everything and my friend you will see some skin missing from your back... You have to understand that saying Serbians like to travel is true but it does not make them travel by default. Serbians can currently travel only trough TV channels as their pockets do not have anything left in them. 60% tickets from Serbia to US is paid by relatives in US not by Serbia originating passenger. So get facts straight. You want to travel you need money so saying that Serbians or Croats are big spenders is ridicilous. Every time you spend for ticket on AZ, you gave to Italy and Rome airport money, every time you spent money on Swift you gave it to Belgrade. Croats get that, Serbs like you dont. That is why they are buying tickets and ask for more flights not bs about swift project. Every thing you left on Rome, Frankfurt, Zurich, Munich etc airports, that should have been money for your country not theirs. 6000 miles buys you a ticket? 6000 miles on any alliance does not purchase anything! Your travel is support for your country. Your airport gets money from it, small businesses on airport get money from it, your country gets money from it. So Serbians like to travel? Yes, but they need to open their pockets and invest in themselves not ask for American to invest in them, it will never happen. What do you think Serbia does have what 50 US states double the size do not have? Food? People do not spend 1500$ to go eat...
@ Petar
You are right. That is how all starts. You support small initiatives that shows potential, with each purchased ticket on Swift, you show to big boys who are watching this, that you are good market. Both Serbs and Croats need to show their potential to big boys, and do you know how you show it? Purchasing the ticket not blogging. Fill this plane up and you will get big boys in few days after that. You will present your self as worth of big moves, big investments... No one invests in something that will not return money. Big boys are sharks, and when they see money thats when they come. And when they come, they bring pax who spend money also. That is WIN WIN SITUATION! You have to invest in yourself to improve yourself. All of the people that will purchase the tickets, they will spend that money and more on others, and not get anything from that. But they spend it on their airport, they spend it in their country then everything opens up.
And they show to serious businesses good picture as worthy investment.
So all of you haters, not flying and giving coments like this, check your pockets, just look at them... and then realize they will never be full again if you do not fill them up yourself. Support, present yourself as customers not greedy cheap pompous asses and money will come. That is how you bring real investments and big companies. They are not in busines for fun...
The way sales goes until now, I can see Croatia as a winner on this project. They will purchase the tickets, and pay more, even they have smaller numbers on the route, they will spend more, than big boys will see potential and act. In the same time, Serbians will think about who got money from this, find all sorts of mistakes, demand for more, and then when after 5-6 years they end up traveling to USA via Zagreb, then they will start thinking... same bullshit all over again... I support this, and will sell as much as i can in order to at least improve chances that when next time i go home, i dont feel like livestock on european airports...
The flights are going from ORD, not Rockford. Use your heads, common sense. It says ORD with this airline, as Ryan Air International they said might fly to Rockford.
ReplyDeleteDo you know how good it is and good feeling when you know your flying over the ocean
1. with your own people, Serbs mainly, I doubt many muslims and terrorists will want to lol
2. for less money and less stops!
The time will come when Serbia rises again above Croatia and Bulgaria, the sanctions and war greately stopped// reduced the growth. Well it is starting back up again. After many years and Serbia gets new, good government and becomes powerful again, trans atlantic flights are a no-brainer.
SRBIJA!!! BEOGRAD.. VOLIMO TE
Hey AleksNikolicUSA,
ReplyDeleteIt's great that you are enthusiastic, and I wish Serbia all the best.
But just on the sidenote, Croatia has had war too on its own territory, which consenquently resulted in a 10-15 year money drainage (from which we still haven't recovered) in material damage, refugee accommodation (refugees stayed in most croatian hotels until 1999-2000), and market opportunity loss.
While Serbia is bigger population wise, has Belgrade as large urban city, and in that sense can offer good continental toursim...still Croatia has much greater competetive edge (in terms of overall toursim).
Besides Croatia is only now reaching its tourism records from 1986,87,88.
the war, privatisation and loans undertaken in order to pay for weapons, military, post-war reparations, refugees, creation of infrastructure - highways etc. (which was never fully develped as Croatia was never priority number 1 in ex Yu) are some of the few things Croatia struggled with too.
So, not to look back on hard times, I feel both Croatia and Serbia have somewhat of a similar starting point. Each should differentiate and position itself and work together.
Croatia has summer toursim, Belgrade is a popular city break destination, etc.
I seriously doubt Serbia will surpass Croatia as you also forgot it never did during ex-Yu despite the political power being centralized in Belgrade and Serbia.
So, take it down a notch - and no hard feelings man, just need to do some checks and balances
cheers :)
@ Aleks
ReplyDeleteDude I appreciate your entusiasm and your willingnes to support your country. But lets talk about aviation again. Also you sound like a smart guy but allways remember love your country as much as you can but allways learn from anyone things they do better. Every country does some thing better some things worse and it is big difference between being nationalist and being chauvinist. Regarding aviation, and travel in general Croatia is went much further than Serbia and we should learn from it. So my friend never let chauvinism keep you from getting new knowledge.
@ Petar
Serbia was priority number 3 in YU. Just so we get real. You can see that by next few things every company, government, country is defined by three major things: Cash flow, Power grip, Resources . Money was neither in Serbia, Neither in Croatia it was allways in Slovenia.Power grip was held by Croat in former YU for 40 years, and only thing Serbia had were limited resources former YU had. So basicaly weirdest part of whole bullshit that happened in former YU was the thing that neither republic is self sufficient to be strong in any way. But that is my personal opinion and I will just keep it for my self. But majority of things you are right.
@ dusan
ReplyDeleteYES Dusan i could find cheaper flights BEG-ORG 1040 usd with LOT, ORD-ZAG 1050 usd with SAS and KLM, and lot more, one advice to all travelers: when you're buying a ticket search at different places and -/+ 3 days youll find a good price. I just buy a tickect SKP-JFK for 580 EUR round trip. and last year i saved 600 usd on my trip to Detroit. Maybe i had 3 connections and instead of typical 13-14 h it takes me 18 hours, but for 600 usd i will sleep at the airport for one night:)))
what BEG realy need is a scheduled flights to ORD,JFK,YYZ with DL, UA, or AA and AC. companies with flights to every city in US/Canada. With scheduled flight i can buy ticket from/to lot cities and i shouldn be worry if my plane is late or anything else.
@ AleksNikolicUSA
Have a nice trip but just for a second think on this. if you buy ticket from CLE to ORD and then another thicket from ORD to BEG, and by some reason the CLE-ORD flight is late (bad weather/ techical probrlem etc.) and you mised flight ORD-BEG how much money u'll lose.
HAVE A NICE FLIGHT
This is very good deal..
ReplyDeleteLike someone said already ,you won't find anything below $1550-$1650 to Zag or Beg..
It just pisses me off that we need some swift air from PHX,AZ to fly our arses to our EX-YU..
Ciao!
It'd make most sense to make Beg an ex-yu area hub for long hauls to middle east, Asia, Australia etc. and Zag for USA and Canada, just like it was before 1990.
ReplyDeleteIt's no brainer why major airlines today are hesitant on whether they'll fill up their planes to either Zag nor Beg all year long. Beg and Zag represent 2 fragmented markets (relatively small). There should be one hub.
I'd certainly most rather use BEG instead of Frankfurt in order to go to China or Australia.
I'd hope that people from Serbia would also want to choose to fly out of Zag to go to North America, again instead of using some other country's hub. That's called helping each othe out, well esentially helping ourselves in making a stronger market.
The only question is, you'd need a strong airline that'd want to buy long haul aircraft. Croatia Airlines obviously has its head up the ass, because they're nowhere near thnking about a possibility to attempt this market at some time...
The other day I wrote to their CEO and suggested they get 757-200 long range (w/ wingtips) which are capable of covering 7500 km (I used it from London Gatwick to Cinncinati OH via Delta in 2009), and since the passenger capacity is around 180-200, they could also use the aircraft throught Europe when the season is low...but no no, that's too much for them.
Jat, on the other hand, has a problem with aircraft that are about to fall apart as they were all acquired approx. 1985-89...hm...
While one airline is sickly and weakly, the other is retarded.
ideas people ? :)
I almost forgot...the proposal I just wrote about could only work if Beg and Zag connect at some point soon.
ReplyDelete@ Dusan,
ReplyDeleteIt's ok that we have different perceptions on the power shift in ex Yu.
But when I said what I did I had a specific case in my mind, relevant to the statement on the infrastructure.
My parents, just like many people in Croatia working and living in the 1970s had their paychecks deducted for a specific projects all Croatians considered of vital strategic importance (tourism).
For almost 10 years, the money fund was organized by the socialist republic of Croatia for the purpose of collecting money that was to finance building a Zagreb-Split highway.
At some point in the late 70s or early 80s the project stopped (after people invested lots of funds) and at some point soon, the federal government of Yugoslavia decided that the investment priority was railroad Belgrade- Bar. and so it was build, while Zg- Split never was untill Croatia invested its money again...(2000-2005).
Another example is Zag airport which handled 1,9 mil in 1979. It was screaming for an expansion in the 80s, but off course that didn't happen while in Beg it did, cca 1985-87.
Not to sound negative, it's not my intention, those things are somewhat logical in a centralized government. However, please don't tell me that Croatia was anyone's priority in ex-yu. Certainly not higher that Serbian interests. And that's ok too, Croatia would probably do the same, it's natural...
I am writting just to set things straight.
I hope all ex-Yu countries will experience some prosperity soon...
I'll just say this - be prepared to be very pleasantly surprised by JAT's next move, and not only from Chicago. Forget the charter company which might or might not have it's first flight. A lot of people have tried in the past and not succeeded.
ReplyDelete@Maxwell
ReplyDeleteDo you want to share something with us? :)
@ anonymous may 7th 1:26 am,
ReplyDeleteno u cannot, u cant find those for summer season, i called for tickets in march they said with LOT from Chicago they could barely find seats to BGD from $1,350 - which was lowest. The charter still wins at being cheapest...
and I told you cheapest would be to drive or get train to Chicago then get charter it saves my family 200-250$ per person, we could leave earlier and we can't be delayed so we catch the flight. chill out man
this is exciting, on nikola tesla airports timetable page they added a small box of USA and showed the route to chicago... :)
ReplyDeleteflights till December 29th?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setimes/xhtml/en_GB/features/setimes/roundup/2011/05/06/roundup-bs-04
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@ Maxwell
ReplyDeleteOh for God's sake you as employee of JU or someone close to JU, should know that you guys have plans for last 20 years... I dont know if you remember, LH already reported JU to IATA for illegal ticketing practices, UA canceled contract, LH canceled the contract, DL AF KL MP did that year before that, VS announced same thing in June... There are stories on the market that JU plans to file bankruptcy and does not want to pay to LH for their segments as they allready spent that money,and JU counts on the fact that they will compensate with codeshare pax on their flights. Now, this is where JU is wrong, LH will soon cancel even codeshare flights and send big ADM to JU for illegal ticketing practices which will result in complete financial colapse of JU, and will also cause some more problems for JU and this time realy bad problems. And LH will not just eat 4 millions for those two engines in Germany they did for JU and never got paid, and will not eat 300$ loss per ticket from JU's 15000 pax this summer. That is over 4.5 mil. If they do not get paid, they will decline boarding of JU pax. And government will not be able to help JU, because if they want into EU they cannot subside JU anymore, a government owned airline as that is the first rule of open skies and markets. On top of that, Serbian CAA and AP BEG, allowed Wizz to take 200,000 regional pax from JU, and Wizz is paying less handling and landing fees on AP BEG than JU itself. Another loss. So basicaly, JU will not have money for the passengers that purchased the tickets allready,because they were selling it under market value and their costs, and fuel prices went 1 $ per gallon up in last 4 months while JU prices stayed the same. Same thing happened in 90ies when JU filed for chapter 11. And all of pax were left hanging dry. Also some 5-6 thousand pax did never recieved their refunds. Now government is under huge pressure and they do not have anymore money to support JU'S games especialy in election years. While you have SPO running CAA, G17+ running AP BEG and Dems running country, do not expect JU return or survival. It is imposible in Serbia to have those three parties on same side on same issue in same time with joint solution. And that is what JU needs for anything realistic to happen. This CEO of JU, will probably be the last one,and i think he was brought for that reason, and all the money that was lost will not be covered from 51 Mil Eur subsidies and government guarantees. Just in bad fare menagement JU lost allready around 20 Mill Eur this year which is embarassing. For God's sake lets calcualte all together. B737 burns around 2.5 tons of fuel per hour. BEG-FRA around 5 tons per flight. Current price of fuel is around 800 eur per ton, 800 X 5 = 4000eur just one way. That means that only fuel costs for JU are around 40 eur per pax per flight, and they are selling it to passengers for 70 uer regulary and they sold it for 50eur with contract they had with LH. In reality that is loss of 40-60eur per each sold ticket per returning pax. or even worse, 3500 pax to fra and 3500 pax to dus is 350,000 eur per month loss on two of best routes they have. Now multiply it for 34 destinations per year. And we did not even consider unexpected costs which are huge with old ac.
Bad fare menagment and bad fuel projections lost for JU much more than they are realizing yet. JU realizes everithyng backwards after two three years. Now imagine Maxwell if you guys think of transatlantic flights what will happen with this kind of thinking and against big boys on the market? As my opinion is that you are one of people either from AP BEG or JU itself or some of the agencies close to JU, you should ask those guys to start thinking smarter.Just consider firing bunch of malicious people like yourself, re-planning your network,canceling half of routes you have that are not profitable and start building from bottom up. Because since B737 problem on Southwest, value of each of your ac is not more than condo in Belgrade which means you do not have equity and your operating losses do not allow any serious lessor to give you aircraft with acceptable terms. And for transatlantic flights it takes much more than "JU answer" (which was btw very funny, i think swift was shaking) it takes knowlege, guts and good ops. all people that knew what they do in JU are either retired or they do not want to mess their retirment and guts you cannot have without money, and ops you cannot have without money. Example of JU organization, they recieved number of A319 trainings from airbus for free and instead of sending young pilots they are sending pilots with 1-2 year of active flying left who will retire soon. So instead of making something recieved for free as investment in future, they are spending it on old pilots whose recurrent will cost them 2 years, and then again they need to pay for same training for younger pilots. This alone will make a loss of 500-700 thousand in next two years. Imagine what will happen if they get a widebody aircraft, those losses are quadripled and happen every year in first 3 years of operations. So for God's sake my friend read at least one book on the subject before comments like this.
ReplyDelete@ Peter
ReplyDeleteI understand what are you saying, and it has sense or at least part of it. But I seriously doubt that Tito who was a Croat had bigger priority on Serbia than on Croatia for 40 years he was on top. But nevertheless you have some really good points and i really appreciate discussion with you. It shows different perspectives. Now, we both agree ZAG and BEG are small markets and they need to start acting as one if they want serious flying with heavies on their airports. That will not happen as it demands business sense and none of the countries has it yet they are too fresh in capitalism and aviation is controled by governments. But I will tell you this, ZAG currently deserves it much more than BEG, as ZAG AP guys are much more profesional than BEG. I am born in Belgrade and I love it but this is the truth. Dont be surprised if you hear that Swift decides to fly to BEG via ZAG... after actings of Serbian media, airport, CAA etc I can bet Swift is not happy and will reconsider their flying to Belgrade. And if that happens, I can bet one very big attack on serbian market that will cause majore shakedown in serbian aviation. Flying to Belgrade trough Zagreb... Dont forget, all it takes is schedule change and connection with OU and there you go. Both companies could have big interests in that. BTW Maxwell, this is what you need to think about as realistic alternative to what you said. Croatia has ZAG, DBV and SPU in one country, Serbia has only BEG and INI. Flying time from US is lower to ZAG, connections much better with OU and honestly, after all the mess Serbians are making out of this I would not be surprised with moves like that.
No self respecting company allows this kind of treatment and especially Jerry Moyes owner of Swift who if he gets pissed can purchase both Serbia and Croatia together. Dont forget this guy screwed NBA and NHL in seconds when they were acting tough and those two leagues make more money per hour than national GDP of Serbia or Croatia citizen in year.
Regarding OU dont think they are not trying, Misetic wanted that long ago, guys now want it too, but you have to remember that their Starr Alliance partners will never allow that, and OU is controled by LH, never forget that. OU was good company, but in start they were forced to make one compromise more, and that was: accept LH aircrafts as "gifts"... Those gifts now cost OU their authonomy in decision making.
@ Anonymous
ReplyDeleteThere is no such fare my friend. Currently cheapest departure from Belgrade to Chicago is 835 eur if you find it. Comparing SKP - JFK route to BEG-ORD route shows dude that you are as cheap as they come. You mentioned that Serbians like to travel and now you are saying you fly from SKP. I dont know if someone told you but Macedonia, is not part of Serbia since Jajce and JFK is allways cheapest fare into US as every airline wants to enter US market trough NYC by lowering those fares to their cost. Also dude, we are talking about ZAG-ORD and BEG-ORD flights and tickets not SKP-JFK or SKP-DTW... You should consider driving to JFK from SKP, i think if you find 4 more friends you will save bunch of money on gas and you will reach JFK by end of next year... Also try asking stewardes to give you lap seat... I heard those are cheap and if babies can use it i think you will find a way to shrink for 1000$.
Now, please do not answer to this post as on subject of market analysis or knowledge about prices I could become your father easily and then we would have family issues. And just to prove you are lying and unaware what are you talking about here is LOT fare to chicago from belgrade for which you said was 1040$.
Selected dates
Departure: Friday, June 17
Return: Sunday, July 03
$1,290.50(For all passenger including taxes)
KLM
Price departure flight USD 783.11
Price return flight USD 817.22
Total price for all passengers USD 1,599.33
1 adult
This is with +-3 days...
It si public data so everyone can check it... Smartasses like you realy think they are smarter than all other people... Kush.
Regarding AC, DL, AA yes they will come and that will happen when we (Serbia and Croatia) fill aircrafts like this regularly and show them profits... If you cannot fill 235 seats do you think they should bother? Or you think they will come here to fly for passenger like you who will change 30 flights for 2$?
They want passengers that pay good money for good service.
@Dusan
ReplyDeleteTake it easy my friend. You'll have a stroke if you continue like this. I know from our friends in the US that the sales are not going that great for Airplus. People are suspicious. As I've heard a lot of things were planned and promised but very little has been realized. Why did it take Airplus until April 2011 to start with sales? Wasn't the original plan to start selling in February or even March? What happened between Airplus and Ryan International? Why do you have to use Swiftair who then according to my information uses planes leased from Ryan International? Why are the flights promoted as Q7 (Swiftair) when according to my information when a reservation is booked the flights show as RD (Ryan International)? Again what happened between Airplus and Ryan International? How come your company director says that you are not sure about the flight times? Is that professional? Give JU time until the end of June/beginning of July and you'll see. Lufthansa is not doing anything because the word in our circles is that they are sure that this option will not last more than a month or two. Talk about big boys - they know everything.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Dusan
ReplyDeleteJAT has learned from it's mistakes. On of the biggest ones was their leniency towards the Balkan travel agencies from the US who were abusing the RBD's on the trans-atlantic carriers and caused problems for the airline. That's why some of the contracts you mentioned were suspended. Now be fair and let everyone know that every ethnic carrier (Air Bulgaria, Air Bosnia, Croatia Airlines among others) also lost the United contact. A revision will be made and all agencies that abused JAT's trust will lose their contracts and face hefty ADM fees for their illegal practices. I agree that it took us some time to put an end to this, but we finally did. And also just for your information JAT was badmouthed by those same agencies to United, Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss etc. but to no avail. Just wait and see. Re-newed and completely new contracts are being finalized as we speak. I guess you made a miscalculation of your own when you decided to write-off JAT as a competition. :-)
@dusan,
ReplyDeleteI enjoy our discussion too. Most importantly they show the extent to which we care for the welfare of our countries :)
@Maxwell,
If I understand you correctly, you potentially see JAT in establishing direct intercontinental routes ?
I wonder how, through lease of long haul aircraft ?
I thought JAT has a contract of several (8 to be exact) airbus 319 pending... and isn't the company struggling hence the reason the government is trying to sell it ?
Or did I get your points completely wrong ? Please elaborate, thnx man.
cheers - P
@ Maxwell
ReplyDeleteDude, JAT wants to send hefty ADM to travel agencies and at a same time their office in Belgrade is issuing illegal tickets and charges 60 eur fees to cut off UA and LH YQ tax for 420$ per ticket? Do you think LH and UA do not know that and want to revise the contract with JU? There is around 2M adm in JV starr partners ready for illegal ticketing practices of JU, also illegal extension of previous SPA agreement already gave LH enough to just take JU out of market story. why would they reconsider the contract when they can just take you out? JU approached LH with the story of abused RBD, while in the same time JU is abusing resolution 852 for which itself sent notice to its travel agents not to do. JU did not work with travel agents they worked with favorized travel agents and because of them they lost market. Remember that some of them were blacklisted by ARC and JU still issued their tickets? And they thought big boys did not know about it. So you are sure that lufthansa will extend contract with JU after they just lost millions from JU who undercuts their fares? Or you think they will do it after JU did not pay 4 million dollars for the repair of two CFM56 motors to Lufthansa technik? Yeah I think you are right. It shows JU thinking behind your words, "we are the smartest, and even when we do not have contracts or money anymore,and screw every airline we worked with, everyone will come to us because we are JAT". "WE HAD DC10 10 YEARS AGO WE ARE THE BEST"! Good sound busines planning. In June you know what will happen? You guys will realize that you do not have money to fly because you filled your aircraft with tickets that cannot pay for expenses and then you will ask government for more money and no one will be able to give anything because its elections time. That is why JU was fighting against new law, against stupid charter against everything that could bring some good to serbian aviation. As in regards to RIA and Air Plus I do not know what are you talking about. Swift air leases aircraft from RIA? Who told you such a thing? That would be like JU leasing aircraft from OU... RIA, canceled contract ilegaly 24 hours before sales start due to ARMY contract they recieved not because of anything else. And they recieved fine from DOT for it... BIG ONE! Everything was set for start but JU again wanted to stop any chance of transatlantic flights like they did for last 20 years when they called RIA and told them they will stop charters. Regarding sales you guys from JU did your best to stop the sales and again three lowest fares are allready gone... you know what that means? Now if i had strong influence in Air Plus i would not allow this JU behaviour. I would just pay refund penalties and accept all JU pax on my flights. That could cost 1-2 millions but would completely close the doors of JU ever again messing something good. Yet JU is unaware how fragile they are.
Yes director of Air Plus said there was problems with flying time because JU CEO and AP BEG CEO want them to change departure time as BEG airport is "too busy" in 3 PM. Embarassing they are trying to ruin credibility of AP in any way they can. They have 20 flights a day and they are too busy? Now do you think all the people here are fools and dont know that this is just JU trying to kill any chance of progress for serbian aviation? You guys did that to one of your own when he started Centavia if i remember right. You blocked Skyservice also couple of times and they had serious problems also. RIA sales were supose to start, reservation system was set and carrier changed, Air Plus is allowed by US law to do that. That shows that Air Plus puts money where their mouth is. Balls my friend thats how its called.They said they will do it and even after all the misery they had to go trough they did it. Balls my friend. That is why everything was kept private and was late so you guys could not do shit about it again thats what i think. Is it serious? If it wasnt could Air Plus manage to do what JU was not able to do in last 20 years and after all little scams by JU and serbian politcs not to allow it? That is serious for me and made all of you show your real face. How can you explain that scheduled airline is thinking so much about charter? Everyone in Serbian aviation knows that JU is the reason why serbian Aviation is like NOKIA, every year you get smaller model. My friend in open market you do not calculate on your competition you count on your own knowledge of your own business. So only company such as JU, which btw has 50 foreign offices and only 34 destinations, can think like that. But the good thing is that my obsessed writing finaly got you to show JU real face :) Just one question for you, if JU continues attacking american carrier what do you think how good are their chances to get permits to fly to US again?
ReplyDeleteAnd btw Big boys never react on charter flights they just watch for their success, and if they make it then they come in and take over. Only airlines like JU get scared from charters... WUN WITTLE WABBIT WUN!
Maxwell word of advice, go to your seniors, tell them we did not fly for 20 years long haul, we are rusty in this,lets see how these guys do it, learn, adopt and get ready to do it on our own. Lets start making partners until we get in position to be self sufficient. DONT FIGHT AMERICANS AGAIN DUDE WE ALREADY LOST ENOUGH BECAUSE OF THAT WAY OF THINKING. Be friends with them,learn and push forward not backwards.You need friends in business not enemies. OU lost UA contract but in last 4 years got BA,KL,LH,OS,AF,US... They lost one but gained 10. JU lost MP,LH,UA,AF,DL,KL,9W... and did not get not one renewed. Once its lost its gone my friend and every lost contract reduces your chances for new ones.Because other airlines know there is reason for all colapsed contracts and do not want to risk. You did same thing with flights to NYC with that route that started in Tashkent,and they canceled that also with you. So lets get real,i know you want the best for your company and you will do it only if you get real knowledge about your market. Do you remember that last representative of JU in Chicago stole hundreds of thousands of passenger money from refunds? Just analize dude and then start from bottom up with changes.
ReplyDelete@ ALL OTHERS
ReplyDeleteHere you go my friends you can see now how JU thinks and runs serbian aviation for last 20 years. They have all sorts of plans based on something that does not exist and they will do anything they can to stop any kind of progress. Hundreds of people work for that company with all their heart and they get punished every time harder and harder by each new managment they get.
@ Peter
ReplyDeleteNo you got it wrong, JU will lease A319 and then make 30-40 millions of profit in two three months and instantly purchase 7-delay-7 and then they will purchase Lufthansa also because Nikola Tesla left them blueprints how they can run aircrafts with burning air instead of fuel. And then everyone will know how strong is JAT! So yes Peter you are wrong. You miscalculated JU completely. Their previous CEO even asked why do they pay for Amadeus GDS and what they use it for? And trust me there is no stopping when you have masterminds like that planning future. Very soon LH will come to JU and beg them for contract and Belgrade airport will become bigger hub than LHR. We have the blueprints remember?!
P.S. and all of that noise for once a week charter flights? You get the point? I can say just that JU employees, AP BEG employees and all the people that do everything for Serbia to get some level of profesionalism in aviation again end up embaresed by few rotten apples again and again. They did not deserve that.
@ Dusan,
ReplyDeletethere are around 60 daily flights, at least how much i counted up for today just arriving... plus BEG airport is striving airport quickly growing. why would u say 20 daily flights? haha :) and the person said at THAT SPECIFIC TIME the flights may be too busy, imagine a 767 arriving in BEG while many regional and european flights are pouring in with passengers.
@Aleks
ReplyDelete60 flights daily. that is great. and it was not ment in any disrespectfull way when i said 20. I just wanted to make point even clearer by exaggerating. they have 20 flights in period of 13:00L and 17:00L and 11 of them are JU or LLC with regional ac. And JU BEG-SKP via Ohrid gets canceled every second time almost because it is half empty flight anyway. WHat would you rather see on BEG airport in 3PM, wide body aircraft leaving to ORD or reginal leaving to RIGA or SKP via Ohrid? But when AP BEG is getting Widebody after 20 years and puts LCC to which they gave apsurd discounts in priority it shows you what kind of politics is behind it. You have to have political lobby in order to get flying to BEG...that is killing business. You will never get Heavies flying there if you work this way. Belgrade is in a great position, Belgrade should have 100 flights a day and more, and by changing this attitude you raise your chance of getting that. AP BEG makes 6 times more money on one widebody turn than on one medium haul ac. 6 TIMES! on 29 flights they make as much as 140-150 flights of B737,A320 etc...just in summer. and if you compare it with regionals, picture is even more screwed up. They make many times more money than any of JU ATR flights. Because JU pays 0 for years to them. You do not ask airline to change schedule on one of the bussiest airports in the world (ORD) because you want JU BEG-SKP ATR with 45 seats and 15 sold tickets flight prioritized over 200 pax, especially when JU did not pay you fees for years. Just in taxes you get week worth of money in 2 hours. It is business sense nothing else. You are in the busines to make money. Getting slots on ORD is very hard especialy when you have 110 heavies landing daily... So the point of that move by our own people (JU,AP) was to show "Da komshiji crkne krava" attitude. Oh sorry, we have tolerance there now so we change it to "da komshiji krava bude ko chivava". And that leaves wrong picture of Serbia to anyone. Aviation is very fierce kind of business. It needs to be done subtle, smart and with lots of thinking because one wrong move can kill the existance of the company in seconds. Just look in history of bankcrupted and closed airlines, airports, MRO etc and you will see that because of one small detail they all went down. STL can be example for you. Check how many flights with widebody they had in past and try to find one now. Same policies that BEG and JU have now were used by their menagement and they brought ap from profitable to periferal. And then one night boom they just do not know how they lost money. And trust me neither Belgrade Airport, and especially JU as you saw wants this route to succeed because they think they have God given right on everything. Not their employees,their management. If they wanted it, they would have promote it, they would give incenitives they would contact airlines for it like ZAG ap did in last years. Instead they are trying to kill credibility of one airline that is risking with them and supose to give them money and bring long haul pax. My friend you and me can like Belgrade as much as we want, but as I said we still have a lot to learn. If this charter to Belgrade does not work, Belgrade airport can forget transatlantic flights for next century. Because as i said, big boys will never start route that could not fill once a week 235Y charter ac with 300-400$ price less than what they are charging. I can swear on that.
Oh ok, I agree with you on most things. But it is good while they were on negotiating table to discuss that, I dont think Swift Air would ditch BEG just for that. I actually have my friend Jelena in Serbia coming this summer here to USA, she got the charter flight. She told me many people from her town Lazarevac will be going. I hear not only from multiple travel agencies but many other people that flights are selling very well. Didn't you read how they might extend flights until end of December possibly? The airline is confident in success as we will see, and after the charter establishes itself and needs to grow, we can kick it out after starting service with some American airline, and soon hopefully - JAT Airways :)
ReplyDelete@ Aleks
ReplyDeleteLets take Maxwell as an example, dude is saying that JU will again rise from ashes. How many times did you hear that story? Every april they start saying "next april we start flying to US", they do that itentionaly in order to show that all others with same idea have to stay away from it because JU will fly for free if needed as they have government behind them and they can waste as much money as they want, then around october they start uncovering that they have all sorts of problems to start flying and usualy it is fault of US Government who does not allow them to fly, or it is because of Kosovo, or any other reason... Then in december when they need their sales to start for summer, they start graduately fading story putting blame on everyone else. By february, all talks are done, and puf no route again. They think they saved the only route that can make some money for them in future for another year. And they do not even know how it looks like having widebody aircraft because majority of people that knew how to deal with that kind of ops in JU are retired or do not want to loose all they got because of people leading the company. And that is what they do for last 20 years EVERY YEAR!!! So lets be honest you and me, forget everything you heard, just look at what you saw with your own eyes, 1. do you think JU will anytime soon do anything good for serbian aviation, belgrade airport or even their own company? 2. Or would you believe more if they close that company and open Air Serbia or whatever and try to build new on healthy legs without politicians runing the company? Lets say this is survey for Maxwell, and you are average Joe, what is your answer on this question? 1 or 2?
P.S. I am sick so had to stay home and it is a blessing to have this much time to spend on forum :)
@ Aleks
ReplyDeleteYes dude i know they sell like hell now. I am making money on them as we speak :) And you would not believe how excited i am because of it. First, you can make reservation in minutes, you are selling good product which takes half of the worries from travel agents back, and you are helping your country at same time. If i did not grab this oportunity i would be left hanging dry as because of JU i would not have anything sellable to sell and who knows how would i then pay my bills. I hope it is success, as one american politician said, "maybe that will change some things in this country". The guts,and persistance Air Plus and Swift showed, is something we all need to appreciate and learn from. Because when out of 53 comments, majority is anonymous people and malicious or jelaous, you cannot but wander, how many JU employees are all day on Forum?
@ex yu aviation news
Could you check how many people from JU Internet provider ip adresses are posting as anonymous? Maybe then we will all understand why they did not have time to do overseas ops for 20 years :) And by getting those hours spent on forum out of their paychecks then maybe JU could afford to actually start overseas flying again...
@Petar
ReplyDeleteAt the moment I can confirm that JU will have multiple contracts with some of the airlines mentioned in one of Dusan's posts. It's not true that a contract that's once suspended not lost like he says, can not be re-newed. The proof will be presented to everyone as I said at the end of June or beginning of July at the latest.
As for direct flights by JAT - let's just say that I can not comment on that at the moment. ;-)
@Dusan
ReplyDeleteMy friend, you have a lot of anger in you. Please restrain yourself from using cursive phrases and words. First of all it's not polite, and secondly not very professional. It's obvious that you're connected with Airplus in some way and you take everything to heart.
JAT has been written-off and placed on the R.I.P. list by many in the past decades, but they've been always proven wrong.
Anyway, time will tell who was placing wrong info on this forum and who was using scare tactics to sell their own tickets.
Let's wait and see. :-)
@Maxwell and Dusan,
ReplyDeleteWould any one of you know what does it mean if a country is classified by TSA in category 1 vs. category 2?
What does it mean for the country, its transatlantic routes and its national carrier ? Or is it relevant much at all...?
thnx
@Petar
ReplyDeleteA Category 1 rating means the country's civil aviation authority complies with ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) standards. A Category 2 rating means a country either lacks laws or regulations necessary to oversee air carriers in accordance with minimum international standards, or that its civil aviation authority -- equivalent to the FAA for aviation safety matters -- is deficient in one or more areas, such as technical expertise, trained personnel, record keeping or inspection procedures.
Hope this helps. :-)
@Petar
ReplyDeleteOne more important thing - with the International Aviation Safety Assessment (IASA) Category 2 rating, air carriers can not establish new service to the U.S.
Croatia was upgraded from Cat. 2 to Cat. 1 on January 29th, 2011 I think by the FAA, and Serbia's rating is still Cat. 2 for now although a lot of work is being done for a positive ratings change and possible upgrade to Cat.1 as well.
IASA category ratings for the South-East European countries:
ReplyDeleteAlbania - not rated
Bosnia - not rated
Bulgaria - Cat. 1
Croatia - Cat. 1
Greece - Cat. 1
Macedonia - not rated
Montenegro - not rated
Romania - Cat. 1
Serbia - Cat. 2
Slovenia - not rated
@ Maxwell
ReplyDeleteYes I am connected with Air Plus. I sell their tickets like any of their agents. And we were forced to do that after you guys made a mess for us. That was the only way I could survive this summer when you guys left all of travel agents selling your tickets for years hanging dry. Cursive words could not even start to express frustration that agents that were filling up your aircrafts felt when you did not extend not one contract that you had. We are not here to express profesionalism we are here to blogg which means that someone sent you here to write what you write. And now, you are extending contract after Air Plus started non-stop flights, who will purchase those tickets now after their first flight is airborne? You guys screwed all of us big time, but anyway all the best with those.
I am using scare tactics? I just said what is happening on the market, not what will be if it happens like you are doing. Who do I need to scare away from JU? You guys do wonderfull job on your own with that.
@ Maxwell
Dude TSA does not give Category 1 approval. FAA gives approval, and for that they left you list of 11 things to get it back in 2006. Only guy that was working on that as hard as possible was Mr. Nikitovic from Serbian Consulate in Chicago. Guy was going trough hell trying to help Serbia regain Cat 1, and again JU was blocking new law that was needed to regain it. So let me teach you how the proccess goes with Category 1.
First you need to get support from US Embassy in Belgrade. Their review can help you a lot.
Then you apply to FAA and ICAO. it takes usually between 3-6 months.
For their full review.
Then they send ispectors.Another 3 months.
If inspectors approve you then you go to TSA for checkin security audit. 1 month.
Then if you pass all of these you are able to get Cat 1 by FAA on ICAO standards.
But there is a lot of other things you need to do on top of it in order to get approval to actually fly. And CAT 1 can be blocked by US airline same way you blocked others in Serbia.
So here is the advice.
Make friends out of US Embassy and ask for their positive review.
Make friends in FAA and ICAO and ask them for points how to do it.
Make friends with US carriers for operational support.
And be nice toward TSA inspectors.
Than you have a chance to get CAT 1. But it still does not mean that JU will get security clearance to fly to US and this is why you need support from everyone like Croatia did.
Learn dude learn that is how you get things done.
It will have no use when you get new contract in June if you do not do it right this time. Air Plus will have big advantage with their flights non-stop and only way you can do something about it is getting CAT 1 as a country.
thanks to both, Maxwell and esp. to Dusan for a detailed overview of the process :)
ReplyDeleteI just want to see some flights rolling.
I wrote to Kompas agency in Croatia asking them how the ticket selling is doing, and they answered that they started selling just yesterday...they also pointed out that most tickets are being sold through numerous agencies in the U.S.
I wish it works out well for both Zag and Beg.
@Dusan
ReplyDeleteI never said that TSA gives the Category 1 approval. Read my posts carefully, not with prejudice and hatred. As I said let's wait and see what happens. BTW as Petar said a lot of agencies got the licence to sell your Airplus tickets but they are hesitant to start. After all it is a huge risk. Airplus is not a renowned air carrier like other airlines. People are scared that the first flight might never take off. :-))
This is the exact response from Kompas (in croatian) - seems like a real nice guy, responded swiftly.
ReplyDeleteHvala Vam na javljanju,
prodaju smo služebno započeli jučer tako da nemamo relevantnih podataka - za sada je sve na vrlo intenzivnoj
zvonjavai telefona i raspitivanju - prve relevantne informacije negdje početkom lipnja pa mi se slobodno
javite...
Po prvim infoamcijama iz Chicaga - gdje je puno važnija točka prodaje - za sada ide dobro - taj produkt
prodaje veliki broj agenata. Za američke turiste mi se čini prekasno - ali dobra priprema za 2012....
Prvi let će biti 22.6. iz Zagreba , 20.6. iz Chicaga - nadamo se najboljem ...
Lp, Ivan/ Kompas Zagreb
@ Maxwell
ReplyDeleteIt is very nice that Director of Overseas sales in JU is this much on the forum.
Regarding my hate towards JU, it is very obnoxious comment, half of my family works in JU, other half is your frequent flyer, and this is how i started to Hate MENAGEMENT of JAT not JAT!!! I gave to that company millions of dollars of revenue in last 8 years, and few times was your biggest producer in US. That is the hate i have for JU. Now, regarding your big comeback on the market, or transatlantic flights. Here is the best answer for it, and JU menagement gave it for me.
http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Ekonomija/253021/Jat-ce-morati-da--otkazuje-letove-zbog-manjka---aviona
@ Petar
It is usual thing that flights from EU start picking up "5minutes to 12". Visa requirement is major reason why people on Balkan purchase tickets almost 2 minutes before departure. I know this guy Ivan, since it was old Kompas. Very strong and decent company. Consolidators that are selling these flights, and JU behaviour, were actually the reason i started selling charter flights.
So back to basics, Maxwell, you need aircrafts, you need people that work for company not for parties and you need to stop this kind of embarasment. First you will loose half of your fleet by 10th of june as you do not have anymore backups, so in high season one or two AC's out of order and boom there goes the week. Yesterday you had only 5 733 and 1 ATR active. Then on top of it you will recieve "heafty" fines from your partners for illegal ticketing that costed them millions, and big boys dont forget millions, and then thousands of people working for JU will be in deep deep problem and passengers also. And only thing you can do to stop this is just to accept that you have major problems coming up and that those problems need to be solved not allow to become even bigger. Ask for help now dont go against everyone and everything and think you are the smartest airline when facts show different. For God's sake Belle Air has bigger fleet than you now and you are still talking about return to transatlantic flying... Can you read what you wrote please and instead of being condecending start thinking? Just go and ask for help anyone who is not pissed at you. It is a small number but that is your only chance and you do not have time anymore.
ReplyDeleteP.S. I am not worried about Air Plus and their sales, they propably have more money than they need anyway, and it looks like they will have to add flights to protect your pax when you have a flat tire ;) So lets wait and see who is real "risk" this summer. Last time i believed JU and it costed me a lot and i almost went out of business because your representative in US took off with pax money. So this time i am not betting on JU anymore. I wish you all the luck, from bottom of my heart. But my friend this is not the way to run the airline, especialy "renowned" one ;)
My grandpa had a good saying, "pred zoru se mrzne" and it seams JU menagement still does not know what that means.
As from previous days my answers and comments disapeared. I will just leave short note to Maxwell.
ReplyDeleteDear Director of Overseas sales,my consultancy fees are not that expensive, and could have more positive effect for JU. When JU decides to start pulling itself up I will be available... Until then i gave enough free advices.
@ ALL
It is very important that we show our contries deserved projects such as this. It will show we are ready for serious business and open our doors to simmilar projects. Now lets show to everybody that we are not third world countries but rather center of europe and great destination.
Unfortunately many comments were deleted on Friday as a result of major technical problems which were experienced by Blogger. They were not deleted because of the content.
ReplyDelete@Dusan
ReplyDeleteYou're a very funny but angry man. :-) May the best option win regardless if it's JAT or your Airplus.
I am not angry, I am passionate, two different things my friend, anyway, lets talk more on May 20th... 20,000$ per month and I fix JU without a dime of investment, in 6 months. Of course, let the best option win...
ReplyDeleteDid you read this article?
http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Ekonomija/253021/Jat-ce-morati-da--otkazuje-letove-zbog-manjka---aviona
Just dont end DUS or FRA before July 1, I still did not refund all the tickets :)
@dusan and maxwell,
ReplyDeleteas for the possible flight cancellations, what would this mean in terms of passenger loss ? If JAT won't be in a position to cover the routes through airplane lease, can some other airline (i.e. Macedonian airlines, BiH) cover some of the routes by increasing their flight frequencies from cities such as Sarajevo Skopje and Ohrid which are most likely to be reduced by JAT during peak months ?
Will BEG airport suffer from the loss of passengers this summer...?
BEG AP will loose some of pax. But my humble opinion is that there will be much more problems than just pax loss. Belgrade as destination will be damaged totaly. First BA cancels flights, than JU cancels flights shile surrounding airports add flights. This will permanently damage Belgrade as destination.
ReplyDeleteI mean, how hard would it be for Serbian govmnt to cash out and pay for JAT's engines that are being repaired. Not to say this is right, but if this will cause so much damage, I see no other way but for govemt to step in...
ReplyDeleteIn Croatia for example, our government has been doing this for over a decade for soome of our shipyards. Something like 1 to 1.5 billion euros each year...out of tax payers' pockets. Engine repair wouldn't cost more than something like several thousands of euros, if even that, right ?
c'mon...
i meant several hundered thousands, i.e. 200-300.000 euros
ReplyDeleteGovernment does not have any money left for JU my friend for this year at least. It is election year. Spending money on promotions only. Now all political parties are turning to themself not to JU. That is the reason why i previously said, no one will care to help JU, the power grip fight started and all of them will be obbsesed with that. I hoped that JU will use those millions in guarantees much better as I saw that as only chance for JU but it seams that money just disapeared. Some of that, they actually never recieved from the banks, some of it was spent on debt they had previously, and some of it spent wrong. That is when I realized that JU will have huge problems this summer. For the sake of my family, my hometown and my country I hope worst wont happen, but no politician will approve money to JU in time when he needs to show publicly that he is here to bring solid business, and all those other empty promises. That is the way i see it, i hope they had backup plan.
ReplyDeleteThe government doesn’t give any money to JU, which is why JU has to take out loans. The only thing the government does is be a guarantee meaning they tell the bank that JU will return the money in due course (and they can’t even do that properly). If you are basing all your assumptions about JU on a “Blic” article than by now Jat should have gone bankrupt 500 times, blacklisted by IATA and the EU and so on. They publish an anti Jat article at least once per year and give grim predictions and yet they are still flying.
ReplyDelete@ anonymous
ReplyDeleteI agree with major part of what you wrote. Except, in february 2010, JU was already blacklisted by clearing house for not paying their obligations. IATA cannot know financial position of JU until suppliers start reporting debt. Anyway, I would not like to see them go down, not because of me personaly but rather because of damage to serbian aviation which that could cause.
Regarding Blic, this article was not just in Blic, and i do know that JU did not in last week have 9 aircrafts active but rather 6-7. What helped was the vulcano, which they used smart to cancel some flights. This was a good move by JU.
You'll see few more good moves made by JAT. As I said before the company is restructuring itself with new, educated, experienced people. Since the US is a high priority on our list, we've announced officially that our branch in New York is closing and a new branch in Chicago will start working by the end of June 2011. Expect some very pleasant surprises by JAT. :-)
ReplyDeleteAlthough AirPlus announces new service between Phoenix, Arizona and Belgrade and Zagreb via Chicago, just received rumor that maiden Belgrade and Zagreb flights are postponed for July 15 and 18 respectively. Can anyone confirm?
ReplyDeleteIzvor: Vecernje Novosti
ReplyDeleteAMERIČKA avio-kompanija „Svift er“ koja je nedavno dobila dozvolu za direktnu liniju Čikago - Beograd podnela je u sredu novi zahtev Direktoratu civilnog vazduhoplovstva Srbije. Kako saznaju „Novosti“, ova avio-kompanija traži spajanje linija za Beograd i Zagreb. Tako će od 17. juna do 29. decembra saobraćati na relaciji Čikago - Zagreb - Beograd - Zagreb - Čikago.
- Dobiće dozvolu na osnovu ove aplikacije jer nema razloga da ih odbijemo - kaže za „Novosti“ Katarina Andrić-Milosavljević, savetnik za odnose sa medijima u Direktoratu. - Ali, ova avio-kompanija neće prevoziti putnike koji bi želeli da lete samo od Beograda do Zagreba ili od Zagreba do Beograda.
Iako su se predstavnici „Svifta“ pre oko mesec dana predstavljajući dve nove direktne linije Čikago - Beograd i Čikago - Zagreb pohvalili odličnom prodajom karata, ispostavilo se da to baš i nije tako, sudeći po obrazloženju zahteva, koji su podneli Direktoratu. Naime, u aplikaciji navode da nemaju dovoljan broj putnika za odvojene letove ka srpskom i hrvatskom glavnom gradu pa iz ekonomskih razloga traže da se linije spoje.
Početna cena povratne karte sa taksama je 795 evra kada se kupuje u Beogradu, a 1.250 dolara ako se kupuje u SAD. „Svift“ će iz Čikaga leteti petkom, a iz Beograda nedeljom.