Soon in Zagreb
Qatar Airways has delivered on its promise from late last year and will launch flights from Doha to Zagreb on Wednesday, May 9. Services between the Qatari and Croatian capitals will operate every day via Budapest in neighbouring Hungary. The carrier does not have commercial rights on the Budapest - Zagreb - Budapest sectors. All flights will operate with an Airbus A320 with details available here.The news will be warmly welcomed by Zagreb Airport management which will look to extend the commendable growth the airport has seen in 2011. Furthermore, the new service will allow passengers from Croatia to transit via Doha and connect onto Qatar Airways’ flights to Asia but also further afield to Melbourne and Perth.
The rapidly growing Qatar Airways has outlined it will launch up to fifteen new routes in 2012. Its CEO, Akbar Al Baker, recently said, “New routes and new aircraft are being introduced at an unprecedented rate to further strengthen what is truly a global network airline. Our mission has been to operate to key business and leisure destinations around the world, but also to underserved markets where others dare not venture into”. The “world’s five star airline” currently operates a network of 109 destinations.
till the end of year ZAG will be direct flight, with no stop in BUD!
ReplyDeleteI was asked by HSPP to make review about Qatar coming to ZAG for Croatia Airlines and I will share it with you
Dolazak Qatara u Zagreb ogromna je prilika za iskorak kako Zagrebačke zračne luke, poglavito u usporedbi sa Beogradom i kontekstu razvoja u regionalnu zračnu luku, te Croatia Airlinesa koja bi na ovoj liniji mogla ozbiljno profitirati i ozbiljno iskočiti spram glavnih konkurenata u regiji: Jata i Adrie Airwaysa.
Zašto je ova linija bitna?
1. Ukoliko linija uspije biti će pokazatelj i drugim prijevoznicima na Zagrebačku zračnu luku, poglavito iz SAD-a, Kanade, Indije i Kine.
2. Croatia Airlines bi mogla zaraditi prvenstveno na konektiranim putnicima iz SJJ, SKP, PRN, TGD, SPU, DBV, ZAD i PUY koji bi nastavili putovanje preko ZAG za DOH. Croatia bi svakako zaradila i na kartama ZAG-DOH, ali i na daljim konekcijama prema Australiji, Dalekom Istoku, Istočnoj i Južnoj Africi, te Indijskom subkontinentu.
Kolika je vjerojatnoća isplativosti ove linije?
Linija je upitno isplativa, prvenstveno radi malog tržišta, koje djelomično povećava konekcija sa Australijom. Nažalost Australija je ograničena na Perth i Melbourne dok je Sydney izostavljen iz mreže Qatara, a što je velik nedostatak.
Najbolji pokazatelj upitnosti isplativosti linije je ekstremno loša popunjenost flyDubaia, koji iako je NTT (LCC) sa mogučnošču konektiranja na Emirates prema brojnijim destinacijama u Australiji, ima popunjenosti samo 40% na liniji Dubai-Beograd, sa samo 4 tjedne frekvencije i ukinutim Jatovim letovima na istoj liniji.
Upravo zato je potrebno maksimalno koristiti sve potencijale da ova linija uspije i time ostane jedina u regiji, obzirom da je realnost ukidanja NTT linije za Dubai iz Beograda velika.
Što bi Croatia Airlines trebala napraviti?
Hitno ponuditi Qataru code-share na liniji Zagreb-Doha, te na konekcijama iz Dohe za Perth, Melbourne, Delhi, Shangai i Peking.
Kao uvjet code-share tražiti Qatarov code-share na linijama iz Zagreba za Sarajevo, Skopje, Prištinu, Podgoricu, Split, Dubrovnik, Pulu i Zadar. Za vjerovati je da bi popriličan broj putnika koristio ove konekcije.
Prepreka za ovakav ugovor ne bi smjelo biti u Star Alliance obzirom da Qatar trenutno ima code-share ugovore sa 5 članova Star Alliancea.
Croatia na liniji za Dohu?
Naravno da bi, ukoliko se ova linija profilira, Croatia nastavak suradnje trebala uvjetovati paritetnim brojem letova svojim zrakoplovima. Realna brojka bila bi 3 leta Qatara i 3 Croatie sa zrakoplovima A319.
Лет из Будимпеште за Доху има у просеку 40 путника по лету. Тако да се не би много залетао када је у питању Загреб.
ReplyDeleteМађарска има јачу привреду од Хрватске и више становника а нису успеле да напуне летове.
Зато сумњам да ће ускоро одвајати ова два града. Погледајте колико дуго лете Букурешт и Софија заједно и уопште се не спомиње раздвајање.
Наравно одлично је што је Загреб коначно добио алтернативу за путовање у Азију, посебно сада када је Истанбул постао хаотичан.
Али будимо реални у очекивањима.
Congratulations to Zagreb. That is huge! Huge!!!!
ReplyDeleteAny information about Belgrade to Doha?
@Purger
ReplyDeleteThink that you dream is not coming true! And also,if Fly Dubai is not making profit on Belgrade rout,think that Qatar will not see any profit on daily flights to Zagreb! Only that is true for this time now! Think that Fly Dubai will not go away from Belgrade,just too make competion on the market and profit for Emirates on Australia connection!
Mik,
ReplyDeleteWe do not know if flydubai is making or losing money in Belgrade.
Their first month they had an average lf of 42% BUT around New Year they added 5 additional flights in order to cater for the demand.
This means that the market is there and that its positively responding to their offer.
People on this blog are so stuck on their first flight that they are forgetting the additional flights.
I don't think QR will be introducing flights to BEG before they see how ZAG turns out. I also don't think the flight will ever be able to operate from ZAG to DOH directly, as the load factors are simply unachievable for it to pay out. The way it is now, it might just work, and I'm certainly hoping it will.
ReplyDelete1. I think that will not happen just because Lufthansa in December stop code-share with Qatar and we know that decision for Croatia Airlines are made in Frankfurt, not in Zagreb. Lufthansa stop that, and what are chances for Croatia to make code-share in same time? Unfortunately almost non!
ReplyDelete2. Qatar opens lot of feeder routes. They don't care that those routes are lost of money because real profit is on connections via Doha to East. Qatar is just tool for Government to make Doha something like Dubai. And to have lot of lines to East you need to have lot of passengers from West. Unfortunately for them Emirates is too far from other two in MEB3. It is even harder to make profit in London-Doha line where Emirates have 8 frequencies per day. That is why Qatar tries to make lot of «questionable» lines in little destinations with small planes. That is why they don't care about profitability of those lines. Of course most of companies in Europe have same feeder lines that are not profitable because of connections.
Whatever even if line stay as via BUD, everyday flights to Doha is big step for Zagreb. Even if Croatia Airlines will not have code-share and connections to SPU, DBV, ZAD, PUY, SJJ, SKP, PRN; lot of passengers will use those connections without code-share.
Situation in Belgrade is totally different because flyDubai is LCC which stop flying very urgently if flights are not profitable, like all LCC. That is basic of LCC business model. I think they will wait till end of summer but if those flights will not be some 90% full during summer, to make up lost of money from winter, they will stop flying in September or October.
And one more think, you told me that source from Dubai is not reliable one. Just few weeks later everything was like source mentioned. Flights will start on 9th May, everyday frequencies, flights via BUD. And you laugh than. The same source strictly underline that Qatar just wait for new planes and that this line will be nonstop one.
ReplyDeleteQR flights to Zagreb are great news indeed. However, not quite sure about Purger's assessment of region-wide impact.
ReplyDeleteQR's arrival is more a PR boost and kind of recognition of Zagreb's importance as a global destination, however that line will be for sure far from economic viability for some time now, especially if it gets disconnected from BUD.
Bare in mind also QR's high prices (it is one of the 5 world's most praised airlines), and having in mind that ExYU region is highly price sensitive, so this is really a big problem. Think that BEG's connections to Australia via Dubai by a LCC airline (and relatively cheep JU service reinitiating from S2012) will always drive most of connecting traffic. Dubai transfer service is also helped by the fact that Dubai itself already established itself as a destination, while Doha lags some 5-10 years (Qatar also has strict tourist visa policies).
All in all, great for having a 5 stars airline at ZAG, interesting new destination and connecting options, also new jobs...
QR Connections in DOH for Zagreb flights (those within 2-3 hours)
ReplyDeleteex Zag
ETD DOH:
BKK 0120
PEK 0205
CAN 0220
CEB 0130
CKG 0115
DEL 0125
DPS 0210
DAC 0135
DXB 0105
HAN 0120
SGN 0120
HKG 0150
JKT 0225
JNB 0140
KUL 0125
MNL 0155
MEL 0100
KIX 0050
ICN 0150
PER 0150
PVG 0110
SIN 0055
NRT 0130
to ZAG
ETA DOH:
BKK 0515
PEK 0355
CAN 0520
CKG 0500
DEL 0610
DPS 0455
DAC 0615
HAN 0515
SGN 0515
HKG 0530
JKT 0520
KUL 0615
MNL 0515
MEL 0615
KIX 0550
ICN 0530
PVG 0545
PER 0520
SIN 0455
NRT 0550
All widebody connections. Narrowbodies not on this list
Current W11 schedule. But not much changes expected since hub system ME is built on flights after midnights to Asia/Australia with returns early morning around 05-06h
Hm,
ReplyDeletewith the BUD stop as it is now ,
Malev is in a better position to get all the ex-yu bound passengers (except those travelling to Croatia of course). Why should i stay on board to fly BUD-ZAG?
just did a random check for fares, and see connections with both Malev and OU .
HOWEVER, with a pricing of 1720€ SKP-DOH-SKP (in May) i dont see anyone using Qatar via ZAG and BUD, lol... i guess the fares system is still a mess
SKP-ZAG-FRA-DOH-FRA-ZAG-SKP is 1000€ cheaper at the moment then SKP-BUD/ZAG-DOH-BUD/ZAG-SKP
(at least on kayak)
QR is becoming very present in the region!VIE,Munich,SOF, Bucharest, BUD, VCE and now zagreb...anyway zag will surels cover central&eastern croatia and bosnia, but surely not places like Istria and/or western/central part of Slovenia.Those passengers will go to VCE. better frequencies+Emirates flying out of VCE as well.however good news for pleso
ReplyDeleteWow! So soon (I had expected an Oct/Nov announcement), and daily flights - they are predicting success. I wish them well, having used QR to fly to Australia from BUD a few months back (a pleasant experience) I know that there is a quality of service which will be appreciated by users of the route - both business and leisure (in both C and Y class).
ReplyDeleteA few observations:
1. Timings
This is about fleet utilisation to establish the new route. With the plane currently on the ground at BUD for 4hrs, easy to do an extra leg of just 360km round trip to build up a new route. Quite clever really, increase your network over time, then make the line direct - even if not at a daily frequency. QR is expecting another 8 320s before end 2012, a great plane and high utilisation levels by the airline.
2. Connectivity
QR already flies to numerous airports nearby: MXP, VIE, BUD, VCE, SOF. So why little Zg? This route is about the future - the business world sees Croatia making something of itself post-war, stable and well-educated population, EU integration (another argument for another day) and the connections on offer *from* ZAG: like it or not, OUs afternoon wave into the exYU makes for great interlining tickets with quality service levels.
3. Brand awareness
Many on this forum clearly aren't aware of just what the big ME3 mean to the travelling public worldwide in terms of name and prestige. All are taking different paths to achieve success in terms of fleet utilisation and choice: they aren't all able to start routes like EK with 270-seat planes on daily frequency!
4. Product
What QR offers is a very good product to the passenger, at a reasonable price. This new line targets specifically growing business opportunities, the cashed-up diaspora travelling long distances (eg MEL, PER), and the 1-stop time-poor-need-quick-connection for flights.
5. Urgency
The ME3 are desperate to cover all parts of the world, even if it means trodding on toes and putting their competitors out of business to ensure their own viability. 2/3 of the world's population is within 7hrs of the MidEast - staggering thought. EK and QR have taken different approaches to the exYU: QR offers premium service, EK chooses to send its LCC. They are either carving the market amongst themselves, or on a collision course where there can only be one winner.
I believe this line is targeted at the external (ie outside HR) market rather than internal, and will prove successful, especially with a little bit of marketing! Look forward to using the route soon. Dobro došli QR!!
I would rather take reliable LH or OS, than flying via ZAG via BUD via DOH to Thailand.
ReplyDeleteThis is great! First five star airline at Zagreb airport! Congratulations Croatia :)
ReplyDeleteMaybe 7 flights per week is little too much, but 5 flights per week can be profitable.
bravo zagreb.. now BEG and ZAG have connections to the middle east.. hopefully.. depends of ZAG- DOH will be viable, I think it may be no problem with Budapest stop!
ReplyDeleteDaily flights from DOH to ZAG are too much for a village like Zagreb. 4 weekly flights would be more profitable than announced.
ReplyDeleteWith arrival QR at Zagreb it has no connecting flights to PUY, ZAD, SJJ, PRN, Podgorica....only SPU and DBV
I have a friend who works with QR at FRA office. DOH head office seems to be very chaotic. They have frequent a/c and configuration changes and one of reasons why OTP, BUD and SOF were opened was unbelievable to me but seems to be true. Now fasten your seat belts: DOH airport (the existing one) has not enough parking spaces for the growing fleet, that why they want to keep most of the fleet in the air, before the new airport opens for service later this year. Many passenger complain about chaos at DOH airport and you may read the reviews at www.airlinequality.com
ReplyDeleteQR has fantastic service in the air.
ReplyDeleteGround service it's just so so.
Congatulations for Zagreb!
Alex from Doha
here all the timings incl BUD
ReplyDeleteWith Budapest service extending to Zagreb, Doha departure will move 80 minutes earlier from the same date.
Schedule:
QR947 DOH0740 – 1215BUD1315 – 1410ZAG 320 D
QR948 ZAG1510 – 1605BUD1705 – 2320DOH 320 D
Doha Airport has only landstands, no gatestands.
ReplyDeleteIn First/Business Class an extra small bus or car picks them up (airconditioned) and drives to the premium terminal. (other location than eco class pax)
Driving around 15 minutes. Buses are fully airconditioned with leather seats.
they def will have an outstanding product once the new airport opens it s door. Service on board is great and flying DOH-MEL-DOH was a pleasant experience.
Congradulations to ZAG for the route, hope it works out!
ReplyDeleteComparing QR and EK is interesting. QR wants to be EK's size, and EK wants to have ratings like QR :D sadly, but true.
Ive flown both and this is what I find:
QR - their new B777 aircraft are great, theyre spacious (3x3x3 seating config), the catering is better than in EK. The service is more organised and 'flows'. QR lacks a quality IFE and the crew are boring and cold, they work like robots for a fear of being reported and fired. The biggest draw back is DOHell Airport, its small with a few gates that takes you down to buses and onto remote stands!
EK - the seating config can sometimes feel claustrophobic, especially in their 2 class high dense config in their never-ending B773 a/c. The product is inconsistant (3 versions of their ICE system are available - 1 very old and outdated on their A330's that frequently needs reseting, the next version and the new wide screen ICE system, which is fantastic), the service sometimes a mess, the aircraft not always clean. The catering is horrible and doesnt reflect on the destinations it flies to (EK doesnt know anything else for its breakfast service other than omlete and omlete, omlete, and again eggs) and it reflects that more of an Indian airline rather than a modern Arab airline. Dubai Airport is fantastic and the biggest advantage EK has.
QR has the advantage in Eastern Europe over EK, due to the aircraft it has in their fleet. Im surprised they havnt gone to high yielding destinations first such as WAW and BEG, rather going for OTP, SOF and now ZAG. Im surprised that BUD by now hasnt be delinked from other destinations.
@ Purger
flydubai doesnt seem to be leaving BEG anytime soon, and will get interesting in March when JAT returns to DXB.
@JU520 BEGLAX
i would count on connecting pax on most of those flights you showed. What QR could count on for sure in PER and MEL due to a large Croatian diaspora in those cities.
"flydubai doesn’t seem to be leaving BEG anytime soon, and will get interesting in March when JAT returns to DXB".
ReplyDeleteOn what facts did you make this conclusion? flydubai is LCC, it flies if it has 75-85% LF all the year (that should be at least 65% in winter and 90% in summer). If LCC doesn't have at least 75% LF all the year it will urgently stop flying. Now, in winter they had 40%, in March Jat start to fly and will take some pax. flydubai in very short history of little more than 2 years already terminate destination because of LF. So very bright future for BEG line...
So not very bright future for BEG line...
ReplyDelete^ Why am I getting the feeling you are actually hoping for DXB-BEG flights to be canalled?
ReplyDeleteAnyway great news for ZAG. All the best to Qatar.
It is to be seen if FZ will remain in Beograd, I think they will have very good loads in summer. Also, I believe it is still uncertain whether or not JAT is heading back to Dubai in March?
ReplyDelete@JATBEGMEL
ReplyDeleteI guess more work for Croatias Tourist Board in Asia.
Japan + Korea they were quite active, seeing the direct charters from KE and JL to ZAG and DBV/ZAG in recent years.
QR flights are def a good opportunity for them..
FlyDubai would be a strange airline
ReplyDeleteif it continues service to Belgrade with this miserable lf of 40%,
i have never heard of any route with similar bad results.
But who knows about them,according to wikipedia they never dumped a destination (Sohag was switched to Asiut).
There are a lot of airlines
which dumped service with better lf only after a month.
regarding jumping a route.
ReplyDeleteit s all a question of strategy and money. I heard from QR inside that their focus is to cover as much as possible destinations, profitability is only secondary.
The goal is to squeeze out competitors until flights get profitable or they even dont start operating there.
This is only possible if you are a QR,EY or EK with cash they even can waste.
I think QR made a good move heading to ZAG. Croatia will be soon an EU member and is an interesting market. They have an industry (ZAG) and big potential in the tourist sector. Sooner or later, Croatia will be an enough important market to have profitable flights, especially to Asia and their emerging markets India, China etc.
If you have assets like ME carriers and do not have to worry about cash flow like other carriers, go for it.
I hope that Flydubai will succeed to, sometimes a new destination needs some time to pick up, it s just a question whether they wanna wait that long
I got my own experience with EY flying to GVA, pushing since 6 years. Today we have daily QR,EY and EK flights to GVA. Way too much for that markets and flights somethings go out with 25% loadfactor. Still they have no option to reduce schedule or pull out of there. In cargo for example AF has months where they have 10% of the volumes they had 5 years ago. (GVA)
Let s wait and see who will survive :-)
I don’t see where people got the info that the load factor is 40%. That was the load factor in November when they started flights. You can’t expect it to be 100% after 2 weeks.
ReplyDeleteLink for documents of HSPP contra management of Croatia Airlines
ReplyDeleteYou also have my Analysis there
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UYVL1MG0
Where did people get the fact that lf on Beg-DBX is only 40 percent?
ReplyDeleteWell, people have to live with rumours when nobody informs them
about facts!
I would expect this blog Ex Yu Aviation to give us those facts and statistics.
But unfortunately this blog was never interested in doing so...the only information we get is about Jat,JP and this kind!
Shame on you Ex Yu aviation!
I think that ex yu aviation should really publish statistics of Flydubais flughts to BEG!
ReplyDeleteDont you see that people want facts, not rumors.
frequentflyer said:
ReplyDelete"With the plane currently on the ground at BUD for 4hrs, easy to do an extra leg of just 360km round trip to build up a new route".
That was exactly what Malaysia Airlines was doing with their B767 on KUL - VIE service. Unfortunately, this experiment did not work although they did code share with both OS and OU on VIE - ZAG leg.
Not true. Coda-share was with Croatia Airlines and Lauda Airlines (which was not under Austrian at that time). There was not OS code-share on that flight.
ReplyDeleteThat works some 2-3 years, and it stops because Malaysian stop code-share with Lauda which become part of Austrian. As Austrian did not have any interest in code-share with Malaysian they decrease number of frequencies and few months latter they even stop to fly to Vienna (not just to Zagreb).
I used that 777 several times to Vienna and once to Kuala Lumpur.
It was never 767, but 777.
ReplyDeleteLine Doha Zagreb is not established just by accident. There are increased contacts in between Qatar & Croatia, which will be followed by soon opening Embassy of Croatia in Doha and starting serious work on LNG Terminal project at Omisalj and potentially in Ploce, later on.
ReplyDeleteExpected are number of Croatian companies doing businesses in Qatar, as well as, increased number of tourists and busineessmen from GCC countries in Croatia.
Here in UAE, Etihad may consider Croatian coast as one of new destinations.
End of the dream of a direct line to Zagreb.
ReplyDeletePurger? Are you taking some drugs? I know you would like ZAG to be DXB but please, stop dreaming...
Direct line is what was needed here for Qatar to be a real attractive option from Australia or Asia. I would rather have seen Zagreb 3 days and Budapest 4 days for example with direct flight. There are just too many options with a stop in Germany where you can get out, visit some relatives than continue to Zagreb or Croatia.
ReplyDeleteHere is FZ's statistics for the first 10 flights in January on route DXB-BEG : 2338 passengers, means 117 passengers per leg.
ReplyDeletelast anonymous is that accurate information? Where did u get the statistics?
ReplyDeleteDoes really anyone believe in JAT Airways flights to Dubai ? It is amusing.
ReplyDeleteI don’t because JATs CEO is corrupt and has made a deal with fly dubai for JAT to stop flights there and hand passengers over. Everyone in JAT knows that.
ReplyDeleteJat should codeshare with FZ,
ReplyDeletethen we could fly from Sarajevo or Skopje via Belgrade to Dubai.
For diaspora in Australia this would be best solution and i mean diaspora rfom Bosnia and Macedonia!
Hey Jat idiot,
ReplyDeleteCeo of Jat does it right !
Which idiot flies a trash can with stopover in Cyprus when he can fly to Dubai with newest737 800
and nonstop ?!
There is no point to discuss since you obviously work for fly dubai or you are not aware of what the CEO is doing. Maybe for you it’s ok for Ognjenovic to harm his own company so he would suit his own wallet but in normal countries that isn't the case. Obviously there were thousands of idiots who flew with JAT until the flight was cancelled because flights were full. One day all of the corrupt things the ceo has been doing will be seen by the public. Only now is the huge corruption by former ceo Radovanovic being revealed.
ReplyDeleteMe working for Flydubai ?
ReplyDeleteHehe...unfortunately not !
OK i know that your ceo is an idiot
as every other ceo before him ...
and very probably after him .
Of course flights with Jat
were full because those poor people had no alternative...but now they have..if they use their brain !
@ Purger
ReplyDeleteThe flights are still new, and every flight flydubai have to BEG has been delayed (today by half an hour). For flydubai crew, it is a turn around rather than a lay over, with crew taking a change of clothes with them in their cabin bags just in case. CLF isnt bad for a starting flight, with even extra flights to cater demand during the new years period. CLF isnt the only factor to flight profitablity. I dont think EK would want the transfering pax going via other hubs and other airlines.
JAT was underserving the route, so it will be interesting to see what will happen when they return, but if FZ were to leave BEG and leave JAT on the route, again it will stand underserved. The thing i can see is FZ maybe adjusting its schedule once more ac come.
Other who hope to see connections from BEG to SJJ and SKP, that will happen once JAT increases its frequencies to these cities, the transit time is pathetic.
@ JAT bashers
people always had an alternative to JAT when flying to DXB! via LHR, MUC, ZRH, VIE, LHR, SVO, KBP, CDG, IST, ATH, OTP....not enough alternatives?
JAT's loads were great on the DXB route. JAT's office in Sydney is one of the most profitable offices in the JAT network. The problem is the JAT product and the lack of frequencies, but even the JAT product is much better compared to say OS!
Things in JAT are changing, and its scandals are becoming more public, like just recently the telephone scandal:
http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Ekonomija/298918/Bivsi-direktor-Jata--kupio--572-telefona-za-1000-evra---po-komadu
The biggest draw back is the government in regards to JAT, who having been abusing the company, driving its profitablity into the red to justify its privatisation just like it has done with every other company in Serbia (NIS, Zastava).
What JAT should look at is the other Australia flights EK have in their system and maybe offer different timings to FZ to cater to more connectivity ex DXB. A code share agreement with EK to MEL and SYD would be a great idea.
Everyone is counting on diaspora, but I think that numbers are overrated, there are thousands instead of tens of thousands or tens instead of hundred of thousands people....if you want to be sincere, just few percent are flying from AUS/NZ few times a year to ex-yu, most of them (more thn 90%) are here once in a few years...and there are numerous options and connections...think about it!
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous above,
ReplyDeleteOver 100,000 Australian visited Croatia last year which, does not make a great argument for continued direct flights but does suggest there is a market. If the price is right people may opt to either start or finish their European holidays in Croatia.
What happened with Belgrade flights to Doha?
ReplyDelete