More flights between Belgrade and the Croatian coast this summer
The Serbian national carrier will operate up to thirteen weekly flights to the Croatian coast this summer season, a notable increase compared to last year. During the summer, Jat will resume its seasonal flights to Pula, Dubrovnik and Split. As was the case in 2012, it will face competition on the Belgrade - Split service from Croatia Airlines. Jat will double its frequencies to Pula and Split from two to four times per week. Services to Split will launch on June 7 and will operate every Monday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. In addition, flights to Pula resume a day later, on June 8, and will run every Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday. Services to Dubrovnik will be the most frequent with up to five weekly flights starting June 7. They will operate every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday. The equipment to be used on all the flights is an ATR72.
Croatia Airlines will also resume its Split - Belgrade service, launched last year. The airline will not be increasing its frequencies but has moved the flights forward to May 1. They will operate until the end of the summer season, extending flights from four to six months. The service will go head to head against Jat with flights operating every Monday and Friday with the Bombardier Dash 8.
Scheduled passenger flights between Croatia and Serbia resumed in 2008 for the first time since the breakup of Yugoslavia when Jat Airways launched seasonal flights to Pula. However, the service was not reintroduced the year after due to bureaucratic issues between the two countries. Last year Croatia Airlines launched the Split - Belgrade service, connecting the two cities for the first time since the summer of 1991. Belgrade will be connected to the Croatian coast with up to fifteen weekly flights this summer compared to nine last year.
How come OU has not entered more aggressively into the Serbian market. Apparently it is there and it is quite big.
ReplyDeleteSomething normal...
ReplyDelete(Providing JU remains alive)
Yeah, because that would ever happen. Serbia is not an EU member state hence why the Serbian government can keep pumping cash as much as they want.
DeleteWhat Dash 8? Two days ago there was a critical shortage of aircraft, and now they are launching flights on an imaginary Dash 8! What next, they will lease the reindeer from Santa and run regular flights to Iceland?
ReplyDeleteLOL ... Santa lives in northern Finland anyway.
DeleteWhy was there a shortage? I mean, it's not like its the high season.
What are you talking about? It says OU will operate with a Dash 8.
DeleteHe meant that they will use their imaginary Dash-8, as in they have no spare Dash-8 aircraft to operate this route.
DeleteHe obviously refers to the story 2 days ago about the JAT fleet shortage,
Deletewhereas the DASH8 is in the fleet of OU, just a case of mixing 2 things up, no problem
Interesting additions for Jat's summer timetable, in addition to the above mentioned flights to CRO.
ReplyDeleteBelgrade - Moscow
Aeroflot 00:50-05:35 // 21:30-22:35
Jat Airways 13:10-18:00 // 18:50-19:50
Aeroflot: 14:00-18:40 // 12:15-13:10
Jat Airways: 21:25-02:15 // 05:55-06:55
Belgrade-Moscow will be operated four times per day.
-------------------------------------------------
Belgrade-Paris
Jat Airways
09:20-12:00 // 13:00-15:20
14:35-17:15 // 18:05-20:25
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Belgrade - Vienna
Jat Airways is increasing flights from 14 to 16 weekly flights.
----5-- 20:35-22:10 // 22:40-00:05
------7 19:40-21:15 // 22:05-23:25
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These are some of the most interesting changes. I really hope that the exclusive news comes true so that we might see all these changes being introduced.
Ciao
Jat does not have the planes to go double daily to Moscow!
DeleteWhat a pretentious crap of an airline.
You are wrong, these flights will be operated at night which means that the planes would be up in the air in stead of sitting on the ground. Naturally, you are faster to express your bitterness than to use logic.
DeleteNo ATRs
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean?
DeleteI am probably not the only one wondering why is it that BEG-ZAG used to be connected with several daily flights and now - 0.
ReplyDeleteBecause back then Belgrade was the federal capital which meant that there was a demand stimulated by government officials and so on. On top of it all, JU's network included several flights from BEG to Europe via ZAG- these flights were also advertized as BEG-ZAG.
DeleteYes these flights would connect the two cities together, but if you would just check an old OAG It would say No Local Traffic. For example if a plane was arriving from Prague and another from Milan, they would be arriving Zag at approximately the same time. Passengers say from Prague would be transferred onto the one from Milan. The exrta aircraft would be used to go to another airport in SFRJ.For local trafiic there were only about 2 to 3 flights per day.
DeleteAbsolutely. The same ways were those flights from North America to BEG via ZAG. No local traffic but connected pax can transfer to those flights.
DeleteHow much sexier is the ATR
ReplyDeleteThe Dash 8 is sexier!
DeleteDash is too thin and too pointy.
DeleteCTN got rid of ATR years ago!
DeleteDash 8/400 Q is more economical, cheaper to run and has greater range, as well as more fuel efficient, og yeah greater payload and more passengers.
DeleteIt all depends on what market they are serving. For routes under 500nm the Atr-72 beats the Dash-8 when it comes to economics and all that.
DeleteFor routes over 500nm the Dash-8 starts to get better but then again most of those routes are problematic as they become too long to operate. In that case E190/E195 become a more suitable aircraft. Bombardier made a mistake to concentrate on the speed rather than efficiency. If you look at the orders these two have you will understand who was right. ;)
As the matter of fact, ATR is superior on routes under 250 nM, and Q400 is superior on routes 250-700 nM. After that Jets are No. 1.
DeleteQ series orders: 1.131
ATR orders: 1.254
Q series deliveries: 1.087
ATR deliveries: 1.033
Dash 8400Q is better and more economical than ATR42/72 in every aspect, i.e you can go by 250 mile or 150 mile w/e, Dash 8400/Q bears ATR 42/72 hands on. look it up, its there on wiki, compare fuel efficiency for both aircraft, and range of both aircraft and payload.
DeleteReason why everyone now is ordering Dash 8400Q is precisely cause its more fuel efficient and had longer range with same amount of fuel but with greater payload, up to 87 passengers.
OU must buy JU and save them from drowning. The sole problem is that JAT's aircraft are very old. The B733 is a bold machine but not economic at all. The other option would be to turn JAT into a semi-lowcost airline such as airBaltic where you pay for everything. Again, the problem is the very ancient aircraft that nowadays are used only by charter airlines or ex-Soviet states.
ReplyDeleteRight, because OU is just so profitable that it doesn't know what to do with its cash.
DeleteCroatia Arlines has its own problems, adding to it wouldn't help either airline.
DeleteAlso only hope for JAT now is if they get bailed out by the state, which than under guaranty purchases new aircraft, JAT needs 8 B737 type and 4 turboprops, that wold save the airline for time being, perhaps option is to go for Sukhoi 100 SJ,, 8 aircraft can be bought for 400 million dollars, and 4 Turboprops will cost another 100 million dollars if ATR-72.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Superjet_100
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atr_72
So investment of 500 million dollar in to JAT and new aircraft could save them from let face it JAT is all but bankrupt.
Why should OU buy jat? What exactly is there to purchase except scrap metal and huge debts!
ReplyDeleteThere is not a chance in Hell OU would ever buy JU. Not because there is nothing to buy, but because OU is controlled by LH. That is a public secret and because of it OU will never expand to become a regional power. If it did then it would affect LH's daughter OS.
DeleteLadies and gentleman, OU is in financial crisis maybe even deeper than JU, not because JU has less debts than OU (on the contrary it has incomparably greater debts) but because it can not count on financial support from Croatian Government. Unfortunately I can not write abut it publicly in this moment, but in few weeks you will hear about it. Let me just tell you that interest payments come due. Magic year is 2005.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't OU get a certain period of adjustment to the new market. Tarom had several years before the government was not allowed to give it any longer the subsidies.
DeleteWhat happened in 2005?
He is probably referring to purchase of airbus aircraft and payment for these aircraft, Croatia purchased brand new Airbus aircraft for princely sum of 585 million US$, first 4 A320 were delivered in 2000 through 2002 and renaming 4 A319 were delivered in 2003, 2004 and 2005. 1 A420 was leased from LU, and returned at the end of 2009.
DeleteCroatian Airlines paid off most of what was owed with Croatian State taking major share in airline in late 2012, increasing its stake hold even further.
Croatian Airlines by all merits should have clean slate with order for 4 more A319 airline is set for expansion in 2014/15.
Originally it was planned to retire A320s or sell them on, but now its quite likely these aircraft will remain in the fleet, to cover busy tourist season.
Jat: Pola flote u hangaru - http://www.novosti.rs/vesti/naslovna/aktuelno.239.html:416285-Jat-Pola-flote-u-hangaru
ReplyDeleteHey just wantеd to gіve you а quick heads
ReplyDeleteup and let уou knοω a few of the imаgeѕ aren't loading correctly. I'm not sure why but I think its
a linking iѕsue. I've tried it in two different internet browsers and both show the same results.
My webpage ... getting your ex back
And with what exactly are they going to open all those frequencies with? They just cut BRU and GOT and reduced MXP, SVO, CPH and ARN, and now they some how have ac to open more flights to Croatia!!!!??? 7 of 14 ac are grounded due to a lack of spare parts and the cost to fix them, 2 B733 are being scrapped (ANH, AON?) And another ATR7 will return to its lessor. Until ac start landing in BEG I refuse to take notice off it, rather expect another cut in the network.
ReplyDeleteOne part of its fleet is not grounded, it is currently undergoing the necessary maintenance. There is a massive difference between the two.
DeleteThe other day, ex-yu aviation announced that it had exclusive news about Jat's fleet renewal. If that deal materializes, which I think it will due to the current circumstances, then I guess we might see these new routes being launched.
Also, Brussels was temporarily suspended. Please, revise your information before posting them on here.
jedno Jatovanje!
ReplyDeleteJoš se nije slegla prašina oko novogodišnjeg Jatovanja u kojem su Jatovi “stručnjaci” koji žive u nekim prošlim vremenima ustvrdili da otvaraju novi Jat sa flotom novih Airbusa i ATR 72-500. Naravno, sukladno Jatovanju, "stručnjaci" su samo mjesec dana kasnije odustali od te ideje.
I dok se još nije slegla prašina kompanija je lansirala novo Jatovanje. U lizing će se uzeti 2 A320, 2 A319 i 2 ATR72. Sa tim će avionima Jat povećati frekvencije prema SVO i CDG na dvije dnevno, te će za po 2 leta tjedno povećati frekvencije prema VIE, PUY, SPU i DBV.
U ovom “mega-planu” ekipa je smetnula s uma da trenutno nisu u stanju opslužiti niti reducirani zimski red letenja te su bili prisiljeni ukinuti letove prema BRU i GOT, a reducirati prema MXP, SVO, CPH i ARN. 7 od 14 zrakoplova je prizemljeno radi nedostatka dijelova, 2 Boeinga 737-300 su rastavljena za dijelove, a jedan ATR 72 se vrača lezorima. Kompaniju ne brine niti vlastita izjava kako za uvođenje novih tipova zrakoplova (Airbus) treba bar 6 mjeseci, dakle već nemaju dovoljno vremena za realizaciju, te da se komisija za realiziranje ove ideje nije sastala već više od mjesec dana, pri čemu od lizinga nema još ni naznaka.
Imam osjećaj da Jat postaje sve više virtualna kompanija sa “wannabe” planovima.
Just like zagreb airport. Every year new propa
ReplyDeleteYes, that is true. Like ZAG plans for new terminal, but to compare Jatovanja and Zagrebovanje it is 10:1 for Jatovanje. Make us laugh much more often and ideas are always astronomical.
DeleteHow is the introduction of a few new aircraft astronomical plans?
DeleteIt is unreal, but that is nothing concerning Jatovanje like exYU alliance with Jat as leader in that alliance, LCC with ATR 72 to connect exYU airports, flights to USA with 767 and without cat. I (for company with 1 million pax), "Montenegro airlines" will bankrupt if we will not take it under Jat, Etihad will buy Jat, Turkish will buy Jat, AirAsia will buy Jat, AirBaltic will buy Jat, Aeroflot will buy Jat for 150 million ERU etc. etc.
DeleteYou are mixing apples and pears at this point.
Delete1. Jat Airways was never interested in setting up the Yugoslav airline alliance. Its CEO only attended the meeting once- that was it. Afterwards it was OU which tried to do something about it with JP and YM. This means your comment was totally unfounded.
2. There was never an official statement of turning JU into an LCC with a bunch of Atrs for regional network.
3. JU clearly said that they would consider leasing the 767 if there was potential for it. This story because serious when the US ambassador to Serbia announced that Serbia will be put in Category 1. Furthermore, even in the past the airline made countless statements where it said that if they ever intended on flying to the US they would fist need o secure the adequate paperwork. You are portraying an imagine that suits you best, but an image that could not be further from the truth.
4. If you are thinking logically the only logical take over of YM should be by JU as there is no other real market from MNE than the one to Serbia. The mention of this takeover only appeared sometime in 2005/2006. That was it.
5. All the take overs were announced by the Serbian government, not by airline officials. The above mentioned increase in flights were announced by the airline, and so was the fleet renewal plan. Someone like you, who is a self-proclaimed aviation professional should know how to distinguish between these two.
I am sorry but all of your arguments were seriously flawed and the facts you have presented are not at all close to reality. You are no stranger to this forum and your comments have always been 'Hrvatska über alles', so I guess with that your hatred for Serbia comes naturally.
I would kindly ask you to refrain from posting misinformation within public forums.
Хвала унапред.
1. I am not talking about last initiative few months ago for collaboration, but about initiative for "BALKAN ALLIANCE" several years ago.
Delete2. Not to make Jat LCC, but that Jat will open subsidiary LCC with fleet of ATR 72 (that would be innovative concept) which they announced.
3.To open intercontinental routes in company with just 900.000 pax (it was on that time) is stupid. And to sent pilots for training and spend money for that and not to have cat. 1 is even more stupid.
4. It is... but Jat does not have money or potential for that. Let me remind you that Jat live mostly on state subventions with hundreds million of debts. In that picture it is at least stupid to say that Montenegro only chance for survival would be to allowed Jat to take over YM. YM is not in good position today, but in Jat's scenario they would be even in worst position today.
5. As far as I know 100% owner of Jat is Serbian government. And when they made announcement about future of company it is announcement of owner so the same thing as Jat. General manager of Jat can not go to toilet without knowledge of owner. Jat = Government of Serbia!
P.S.
I am not self-proclaimed aviation professional. I am not professionally in that business at all.
This "Hrvatska uber alles" is most stupid thing I ever heard in connection with me. If you know anything about me you would know that I criticize much more OU than Jat. For me Jat is not to criticize, it is parody of company! Unfortunately.
Moлиm
Just to remember:
DeleteJatove pompozne gluposti netko je na forumu odlicno prozvao Jatovanje. Pa evo najupecatljivijih primjera u zadnjih 10-tak godina da se ne zaborave kada Jat provali neku novu glupost:
1. Kupnja flote 320 family se najavljivala nekoliko puta. Cak se najavljivalo i da je Airbus pristao da akontaciju za A320 prebace na kupovinu novih ATR-ova. To je nekoliko puta bila “gotova stvar”.
2. Pa su krajem 2009. kao “gotovu stvar” najavljivali zakup dva 737-700 iako u to vrijeme na trzistu nije bilo slobodnih 737-700. Od istog su “odustali” u 4. mjesecu 2010. Isto tako su najavili kao gotovu stvar zakupljivanje A320 za 2 milijuna EUR tijekom zime 2010/11. Nikoga nije iznenadilo kada se i to nije desilo.
3. Jat je zestoko najavljivao Low cost kompaniju sa ATR-72 sa kojima ce se povezati svi gradovi bivse Jugoslavije, i nimalo im nije smetalo sto u svijetu ne postoje LCC sa turbopropnim avionima.
4. Jat je bio i predvodnik globalistickih prica. Tako su pompozno najavljivali aliansa Adrie, CTN-a, Air Bosne, Macedoniana, LAZ-a i jos nekih firmi pod patronatom JAT-a. Eto, 3 od tih 6 kompanija danas vise ne postoje.
Delete5. Pa ista prica nekoliko godina kasnije (9. mjesec 2010.) kada su najavili ujedinjenje flota sa Montenegrom, kao početak regionalne alijanse, da bi samo par dana kasnije Montenegro demantirao ikakvu mogucnost ujedinjenja.
6. No, nije se Jat sirio samo u regiji. On se sirio i po planetu. Tako su najavili da ce u Gvienu poslati 3 do 7 aviona i tamo otvoriti bazu, te tako zaposliti prastare avione koji su za Afriku jos uvijek dovoljno dobri. Naravno, istime bi se otvorila sredstva i prostor za kupovinu nove flote za Srbiju.
7. Imao je Jat i svoje planove i za SAD i nimalo ga nije prijecilo sto je protiv pameti da kompanija sa 900.000 putnika godisnje u danasnje vrijeme ne moze niti pomisliti otvoriti tako sto. Prvo su stvarno otvorili linija za Ameriku sa marketinski vrlo “pametnom” ex. SSSR banana drzavnom kompanijom koja je na svojoj liniji za New York imala stop u Beogradu.
8. Potom su nabavili 767 i potrosili brdo novaca za otvaranje linija sa za SAD bez da su osigurali preduvjete za istu. Jat odskolovao posada, dao kapara za avione, potrosio brdo para za pripremu linije, no sve se svelo da su radili "razanj a zec je bio jos u sumi", Amerikanci im nisu dali dozvole za letenje prema SAD-u.
Delete9. No tu snovi nisu stali. Ova prica se ponovila i u 9. mjesecu 2010. kada je Drzavni sekretar u Ministarstvu za infrastrukturu Srbije Miodrag Miljkovic izjavio je za Radioteleviziju Srbije da bi direktni letovi JAT Airwaysa za Sjedinjene americke drzave mogli poceti do sredine 2012. godine. Miljkovic je objasnio da bi kompanija za te potrebe iznajmljivala letjelice poput Boeinga 767 ili Airbusa A330. Prosla sredina 2012. a od letova ni “l”.
10. Jat je kao “lider u regiji” nekoliko puta “preuzimao” kompanije. Pa je tako u svim medijima najavio "prinudno" preuzimanje Montenegra jel je Montenegro u takvoj banani da im je to jedini izlaz prije vrlo brzog bankrota, uz pametnu poslovnu izjavu "bolje im je da ih mi preuzmemo jel im je to jedina slamka spasa". Naravno Montenegro je sa podsmjehom rekao “da Jat nije u poziciji da prinudno preuzme Montenegro”. Nekoliko godina kasnije pokazalo se da je Montenegro stvarno u banani, ali da je Jat u jos nekoliko puta goroj.
11. No, to ih nije sprijecilo da pompozno i preuranjeno najave "preuzimanja MAT-a" koja je vec iduci dan demantirana. Niti je MAT preuzet, niti je MAT spasen od bankrota, niti je Jat blizu otvaranja baze u SKP iako su to nekoliko puta najvljivali kao strateski potez.
12. Tom planu zasigurno nije pomoglo navlacenje bijesa putnika i siroke javnosti u Makedoniji od strane pilota koji je provalio "Dobro dosli u bivsu Jugoslavenstu republiku Makedoniju". I umjesto da ga je kompanija dobrano zašamarala, ona ga je nakon toga jos i ozbiljno branila jer eto nije rekao nista netocno. Istina je da nije rekao nista netocno, ali moras biti preglup da tako sto kazes putnicima koji su na to alergicni i time ih usmjeris da ubuduce lete konkurencijom. Takvih “profesionalnih” bisera Jatovih posada je bilo vise nego nekoliko.
13. Medju Jatovanjima svako ne smijemo zaboraviti niti na “genijalne” i nikad sazivjele poteze managementa. Tako je pompozno najavljivana linija prema Hamburgu sa konekcijama na Emiratesove letove prema SAD-u koja je propala za manje od 3 mjeseca
Delete14. Tome treba dodati i neslavan zavrsetak suradnja sa Emiratesom preko Dubaija uz konekcije prema Istoku koji je posao najavljivan kao posao desetljeca i ubrzo propao.
15. Nakon propasti posla sa Emiratesom ista prica se pokusala i sa Etihadom i kasnije u i sa Singaporeom, iako ni u jednom slucaju cak ni u redu letenja nije bilo navodjenja code-share linija ili barem konekcija niti od strane Etihada/Sinagaporea niti Jata.
16. Nekloliko puta su ih veliki igraci “vec kupili” Jat (pitanje sata, a ne dana). Prvo Aeroflot, pa Turkish (6/2010.), pa sad nedavno AirAsia (9/2012). U prvom slucaju Aeroflot je podvio rep cim je vidio nerealne srpske uvjete, u ostala dva kompanije su ostro demantirale ikakvu mogucnost kupovine Jata.
U posljednjih 10-tak godina Jat je imao puno pompoznih najava i potom se samo izblamirao. Pa svaku najavu, poput ove zadnje za AirAsiu treba dozivjeti poput parodija Mel Brooksa i dobro se nasmijati.
13. Medju Jatovanjima svako ne smijemo zaboraviti niti na “genijalne” i nikad sazivjele poteze managementa. Tako je pompozno najavljivana linija prema Hamburgu sa konekcijama na Emiratesove letove prema SAD-u koja je propala za manje od 3 mjeseca
DeleteОпет лупаш глупости. Ова комбинације је пропала јер је Јат био приморан да обустави летове због Луфтхансе. Није сарадња пропала зато што је Јату било досадно да лети за Хамбург. Забележена је просечна попуњеност кабине од 66%, од којих је 86% наставлио даље ка Њујорку.
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2. Pa su krajem 2009. kao “gotovu stvar” najavljivali zakup dva 737-700 iako u to vrijeme na trzistu nije bilo slobodnih 737-700.
Опет глупост. Ови ваздухоплови су требали да буду изнајмљени од Аеромексика. Тако да не знам одакле ти та информација да није било слободних летелица на тржишту.
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smetalo sto u svijetu ne postoje LCC sa turbopropnim avionima.
Опет глупост, зар ниси чуо за FlyBe? Исто тако airBaltic је хибридна нискобуџетна компанија која користи Даш-8, то јест пропелерац.
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Imao je Jat i svoje planove i za SAD i nimalo ga nije prijecilo sto je protiv pameti da kompanija sa 900.000 putnika godisnje u danasnje vrijeme ne moze niti pomisliti otvoriti tako sto. Prvo su stvarno otvorili linija za Ameriku sa marketinski vrlo “pametnom” ex. SSSR banana drzavnom kompanijom koja je na svojoj liniji za New York imala stop u Beogradu.
Опет глупост. Ова сарадња је била више него успешна, то је био један од разлога што је Јат почео да разматра могућност успостављања сопствене линије. После су схватили да ипак не могу да се организују и одустали су од те идеје. Наравно, не може да се криви компанија која жели да искористи потенцијал свог тржишта.
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4. Tome treba dodati i neslavan zavrsetak suradnja sa Emiratesom preko Dubaija uz konekcije prema Istoku koji je posao najavljivan kao posao desetljeca i ubrzo propao.
Опет глупост. Јатова сарадња са Емиратима је пропала јер су Емирати знатно повећали цене што се није исплатило Јату. То је био и главни разлог што је фирма почела да лети за Абу Даби. Убрзо после Емирати су контактирали Јат и сарадња је поново успостављена. Наравно пошто Јатови ваздухоплови нису могли да долете без међуслетања ова линија није била рентабилна, и тако је била обустављена.
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Јат је прошао кроз пуно тога, да не спомињем то што је преживео санкције. Независно од свега што се десило у прошлости он ипак наставља да бележи више и више путника што ипак указује на то да поверење постоји. То је много важније од било чега другог. Уосталом, видећемо ових дана дал је ово још једна празна прича или не. Једно је сигурно, тренутне околности указују на то да Јат нема друге него да набави нове ваздухоплове.
А то што се тиче јатових губитака, то је само зато што управа и неки други људи краду кроз Support. Лично сам се уверио у то тако да знам о чему причам.
At least Jat's planes were never pierced by thunder or they never needed butter to close their doors. ;)
DeleteOn top of it all, the story of Zagreb is just as funny. They are constantly announcing new plans and new deadlines which are constantly moved and postponed. Naturally, Jat has a longer history of failures but give Zagreb Airport some more time. Their financial problems will only begin soon when their primary customer goes belly up.
13. If Lufthansa has so big influence to Jat that they can force you to cancel deal with mighty Emirates, than it is Jatovanje, and management is stupid to go into this kind of adventure. Your expert should know that can happen.
Delete3. Well to call flybe LCC is at least questionable. Of course they can use this to attract passengers, but as the matter of fact they are regional company (in Northern Scotland even company for PSO flights), in England as in Finland with code-share to several mayor companies like Air France, British, Finnair, Etihad, KLM... Even they call themselves LCC very rarely. In their official material they use it just once in history, not in regular material. And airBaltic as LCC? OK... Well, even Air Berlin calls themselves LCC, why not than. By this standard you can call Jat LCC in this second.
Ова сарадња је била више него успешна, (...) После су схватили да ипак не могу да се организују и одустали су од те идеје.
Of course if that is for you "more than successful" than I am not surprised you have hundreds of millions of debts. Please try again with A320 crew training and do not bring those planes after training, and that would be, I presume, successful too. By this standard Jat is very successful company. As we can see!
4. And your experts could not protect you (by contract) that Emirates can not blackmail you with prices just several weeks after starting flights? Congratulation. Also you did not know that 1stop flights to Dubai (because of anccient 737-300) would not be profitable before you start them? You must learn that by flying that line for several weeks? What kind of experts you have? So, yes, that is typical Jatovanje by principle "let us try and we will find if it will work or not".
new terminal at Zagreb airport has been delayed many times in the past, but there was never any doubt of Zagreb Airport getting a new terminal. And now it does, construction on new terminal should start in late April this year, and be completed by the end of May 2015.
DeleteTo compare wishful stories of JAT with Zagreb airport is bit ott, don't you think.
3. If Lufthansa has so big influence to Jat that they can force you to cancel deal with mighty Emirates, than it is Jatovanje, and management is stupid to go into this kind of adventure. Your expert should know that can happen.
Delete- The reason why they managed to do this was because back then the Serbian market was restricted as a result of the Schengen visa regime. Jat could not afford to get into a direct conflict with Lufthansa which threatened to launch a price war. The reason why this was launched in the first place was because Emirates wanted extra feed on their HAM-JFK sector. As the two airlines had already an set up and interline agreement they just expanded it. Even today Emirates have Belgrade in their booking system and if you try to book a flight from DXB to BEG with them it usually routes you via Vienna in cooperation with Jat Airways. Though Jat had left Dubai their cooperation with Emirates is still very much alive.
I would also like to add that as soon as the Serbian market got liberalized Jat abandoned all cooperation with Lufthansa and had established a code-share agreement with KLM. Like this its passengers were routed via AMS to the Americas. After this agreement was signed, in one months, passenger numbers between BEG and AMS rose by 35%!
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And airBaltic as LCC? OK... Well, even Air Berlin calls themselves LCC, why not than. By this standard you can call Jat LCC in this second.
- airBaltic is a hybrid low cost airline, while Air Berlin is still figuring what it wants to be. It's spin off Niki was a lowcost, and at a later stage they did operate the Dash-8 aircraft. Also, Iberia's regional branch Air Nostrum also operates smaller jets and we all know that Iberia's European network operates by imitating the low cost model. So this model is not unheard of- hence why Jat's proposal is not so much out of this world.
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Of course if that is for you "more than successful" than I am not surprised you have hundreds of millions of debts.
- You do understand that I was referring to the flights that Uzbekistan Airlines operated? The loads out of Belgrade were more than healthy. This is what stimulated Jat to consider launching its own flights. Naturally at a later stage the Americans were unwilling to issue the licence to Serbia because of their obvious support of Kosovo Albanians. This decision was purely political. Anyway, I am sorry but bad decisions such as these ones are not only common with Jat- if I started to cite the most common ones then I believe we would be sitting here for a long time. Just look at what happened when easyJet tried to 'diversify' their own fleet. Their attempt was far worse than what Jat had done in the past. Another more common example is the introduction of the B777 by Aeroflot some years ago, it ended up being an epic failure. So these kind of mistakes are not only common among Jat's management.
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And your experts could not protect you (by contract) that Emirates can not blackmail you with prices just several weeks after starting flights?
- Do you even check your information before posting? Go and check for how long Jat has been operating its route to Dubai before axing it due to the price issue.
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DeleteAlso you did not know that 1stop flights to Dubai (because of anccient 737-300) would not be profitable before you start them? You must learn that by flying that line for several weeks?
- Again, go and check for how long they have been operating to Dubai and then come to present your rather weak and unfounded arguments. Also, the reason why they needed a one stop between Belgrade and Dubai was not because the planes were old but because of the aircraft's range abilities. If JU was to fly directly they would be left with roughly 15 minutes of flying time (fuel reserves). Our experts know that this is below industry standards hence why they introduced the one stop. Initially the flight was operated via Kuwait, then Beirut and finally when war in Lebanon broke out the route was moved to Larnaca. Once again, it has nothing to do with the age of the aircraft but rather with the aircraft itself.
When flydubai announced the flights JU experts knew they could not compete with FZ's lowers cost structure and better service hence why leaving this market made sense.
The only thing that could have made JU more competitive was to introduce winglets on its fleet. Naturally this costly procedure made little sense taking into consideration that JU's fleet had past its prime.
All in all, your arguments, fuelled by your hatred for Jat is clouding your judgement and just goes clearly to show how little you know about Serbian civil aviation. Anyway, you were the one to praise the CEO of BEG; a man who knows nothing about aviation and a man who got there because of his connections to Tomica Milosavljevic.
"Jat could not afford to get into a direct conflict with Lufthansa which threatened to launch a price war."
Delete...and you did not predict that? So, you open route to Hamburg and stop it in 1-2 months because you find that Lufthansa will dumping you? Again, who is working for you? Every student in 2nd year of economy studies could predict that! Oh yes, that is not the way to run the company, that is typical Jatovanje!
"Even today Emirates have Belgrade in their booking system and if you try to book a flight from DXB to BEG with them it usually routes you via Vienna in cooperation with Jat Airways."
...and you don't know Emirates use most of flag carriers for connections to final destinations? The same status Croatia airlines has as Emirates connections. When I bought ticket to Sydney by Emirates flight was ZAG-MUC-DXB-SYD, and ZAG-MUC was with OU. That means absolutly nothing.
If you thing flybe, Air Nostrum or airBaltic are LCC, than Croatia airlines on domestic flights is LCC too. Come on... KLM cityhooper is more LCC than Air Nostrum or airBaltic. Most of European regional feeders have some LCC elements, but that does not make them LCC. As far as I understand Jat try to make LCC P2P routes with ancient ATR 72-200. That is not business plan, that is dilettantism. Typical Jatovanje.
"Naturally at a later stage the Americans were unwilling to issue the licence to Serbia because of their obvious support of Kosovo Albanians. This decision was purely political."
...so you also could not predict that? Instead you spend tons of money for training, marketing, negotiations, entering new plane etc... and than nothing. Money into wind. Private company can not afford to react so unprofessional and to spend money for something what has no chance. But Jat can and because of that it is Jatovanje.
"Also, the reason why they needed a one stop between Belgrade and Dubai was not because the planes were old but because of the aircraft's range abilities."
Come on, you are kidding, aren’t you? Of course ancient plane is not just more money for maintenance and more money for fuel as those are very thirsty. Ancient 737-300 also has much worse performances comparing to 737NG! So, if you have this handicap of ancient plane with no range you can not use that equipment for that route. Eider you lease 737NG and make this route profitable, eider you don't open that route if it is not profitable with 1 stop. But to tell me that you find this route with 1stop was unprofitable by practice (not by calculation) and than you have to cancel it, what is it than Jatovanje? You must see that not working, and you could not calculate costs on it before you spend money on unprofitable route?
You think that I hate Jat? You think wrong!!!!!!! Someone who critics Jat is not Ustaša because of it! If you think so you have a big problem. My driver is Serb, I give him a job, and he is a very good person. Trust me, here not more than 5% of people take any care of your nation. That thinking was 20 years ago, not today. And if you still have this way of thinking than you are 20 year in past, as all Jat management is.
And to "prise" CEO of BEG when I was just mention he was impressed me with his eloquence and how he covers ZAG and SKP CEO’s about costs of new terminals…
Zagrebovanje
ReplyDeleteIn 2012 Croatia Airlines transported 1,951.501 passengers.
ReplyDeletenext year for sure more than 2 million!!!!
DeleteYep best year thus far, generated 1.763 billion kuna in revenue (around 320 million US$) and had a loss of around 84.5 million kuna (15 million dollars) but this losses include interests and repayments from previous years, its a overall loss.
Delete2013 Croatia Airlines is likely to make a decent profit in 2013, at least 25 million kuna, perhaps even more, and 2+ million passengers is more than likely, in 2011 OU transported 1.87 million passengers in 2012 in deepest recession OU manged 1.95 million, an increase of 80 000 passengers or 4.3% increase.
And with sell and leaseback of one A319 or A320 that is planed in 2013 it would be profitable. At least on paper.
DeleteOU is not leasing A319s, it was leasing an A320 for short period, but I doubt OU can afford to lease anything in 2013, they' need to sort out their network, add new destinations and stick to these thought the year. With Croatia in the EU, Croatia out of the recession, European city holidays and business trips is bound to increase. I think its realistic to expect 5% increase in travel in 2013, all contributing to better passenger numbers for everyone.
DeleteYou didn't understand. Sell and leaseback means they will sell one of the planes whit which they finish with credit (so they become owner) to leasing company and than they will leaseback same plane. Only reason for that is to get several million EUR to account immediately that they can show as they are profitable company. Ona paper!
DeleteI see, well lets see how all plays, OU has hood relatively good 2012, ended on a positive note with increased traffic figures, but new management has aggressive plans for expansion and new destinations, lets hope they know what they're doing.
DeleteCroatian Airlines is a good airline, best airline in ex-YU by far, but they need to work on their scheduling, offer more destinations, 28 destinations is not a lot, OU should be offering at least 35-40 destinations.
VIRGIN CROATIA!!!!
ReplyDeleteVIRGIN CROATIA is being planned!!!!
ReplyDeletehahahahaaha... good one!
DeleteGoogle Virgin Croatia, all that comes up is Medjugoria! lol
ReplyDeleteIt shouldn't do! Medjugorje is in Herzegovina!
ReplyDeleteCA had 1,951 mil pax in 2012 and operate 12 plane this moment(2 A220 + 4 A219 + 6 Q400). What about situation in JAT this moment considering the fleet and pax/2012?
ReplyDelete