New aircraft to begin arriving from late March
On Tuesday evening the Serbian government approved for Jat Airways to financially lease six aircraft on a long term basis. The government’s approval was the final obstacle Jat faced in renewing its fleet. The aircraft are badly needed with half of the carrier’s fleet grounded. Progressively some of the grounded jets are to return to the air by the end of March. The Serbian carrier plans to significantly increase its flight offering this summer with double daily services to Moscow and Paris, up to three daily flights to Vienna on selected days and the resumption of seasonal flights such as Pula, Dubrovnik, Split, Ohrid, Malta, Girona, Monastir and London Gatwick. Furthermore, the airline will operate a significant number of charter flights throughout the summer.
As was first exclusively revealed by EX-YU Aviation News last month, the Serbian airline plans to lease two ATR72-500s and four Airbus jets (two A319s and two A320s). However, leasing Airbus aircraft could be problematic. Jat’s pilots and cabin crew need to complete training for the aircraft the airline has never operated, a procedure which could take several months. Since the airline will need the jets in its fleet as soon as possible, Jat is instead considering leasing new generation Boeing aircraft. The aircraft are to begin arriving from late March, with ATRs expected to enter the fleet first, while the larger aircraft are scheduled for arrival between April and June.
The Serbian government on Tuesday ordered Belgrade Nikola Tesla Airport to reassess its pricing policy towards Jat. It has been revealed that the national carrier is paying higher fees at its home base than foreign carriers. Furthermore, the government has backed the continuation of negotiations with Airbus so the airline settles its controversial 1998 order for eight A319 jets. The government hopes that four aircraft will be purchased and delivered in 2015.
Photo by: Andreas Ranner
This is called weakness of the serbian goverment. Jat will go bankrupt in not long period, Using money to lease aircrafts, Taking up loans and the worst of all, Gets big losses ot of incomyear.
ReplyDeleteI have mentioned it before and again...All the ex yu arrcarriers, Adria,Croatia and Jat will go bankcrupt if something good dosent happend.All the carriers are using money they dont have, Anyway wish them good luck.
People are not happy when Jat is not renewing its fleet, people are not happy when Jat is renewing its fleet... People can never be too happy.
Delete90% of the worlds airlines are facing this problem
DeleteThats is right but JAT is not an world airline with 3 hubs and a fleet of 300planes with 15 000 employes. That changes Jats figures totally because they are spending much money and have overfloed of employees that they really cant aford to.
DeleteA lot of JAT's expenses is home based. Maintaining the aircraft to fly is a big issue and is costly, as seen that half the fleet is grounded. The new aircraft will hopefully not need the attention the B733's do.
DeleteAlso, it is outrageous that the domestic airline bringing in the bulk of all traffic at BEG is paying the highest fees at BEG, and that needs to change!
JAT has all the chances in the world to survive and I see no reason for negative comments.
ReplyDelete@ “Jat’s pilots and cabin crew need to complete training for the aircraft the airline has never operated, a procedure which could take several months.”
ReplyDeleteWooow, maybe someone from Jat read this blog. I told you that this leasing of Airbuses is just Jatovanje, and nothing else! I told you that for type rating for Airbus you need at least 6 months. So, those “experts” from Jat and commission are so huge professionals that they thought it is like going to supermarket and order 6 planes, and that pilots are like bus driver that can drive any buses they will bring. Experts from Jat: AirBUS is actually not a bus!
So this information that 4 Airbuses wait in Libya in Jat colors is also misinformation (“inside information”). Or someone is so stupid to spend money for something they can not realize, or someone lied here.
To finish this story in black mood. Sorry guys but if they decide to lease plane today (and just today they find “it is not possible to lease Airbuses because of type rating”), in middle of February, for end of March (summer time table), that will never happen. You can not lease plane in such a short time if you want to make it profitable. Of course you can ad hoc wet lease several planes (even Trade air Fokkers, or Adria, Montenegro, Carpatair, BAS... or ad hoc short time lease specialist Titan from UK with fleet of 13 Avro RJ 100, BAe 146, Boeing 737-300, 757-200 and 767-300ER) but this is very expensive, and still 50% of your pilots, cabin crew and maintenance staff get salary for doing nothing.
Purgerovanje, a new term which describes a person who pretends he knows it all without knowing all the facts.
DeleteThe restructuring plan was never presented to the public so all information that surfaced was never confirmed by the airline. In other words they were nothing else than pure speculations. The government and the airline had stated that they intended to make a deal with Airbus to lease the aircraft and they were hoping to have them by the summer season but the whole process was delayed because of the government. In stead of approving this deal in 2012 they have only done so a few days ago.
So Purger make sure you have an official statement by the government and not what the idiotic media reported- which usually has no clue.
There is nothing about 'Jatovanje' here, there is just your usual bitching about Jat. It is getting old and boring especially since you always write the same things without having all the facts right.
That is not true. Minister and Deputy minister gave those information. Minister represents owner of Jat, so he is defacto and deiure head of Jat. That is not just phrase. Minister is «big boss» and CEO must act by his instructions, or he will get fired. Or is this principle different in Serbia than in rest of World?
DeleteSo, when Minister presents that
1. Serbia will open new company and rest of Jat will go to bankruptcy
2. Than he change his mind and will “take” 8 new Airbuses from manufacturer – even if that realized in December you did not have enough time for type rating (experts did not know that in advance?)
3. Than he change his mind again and present leasing of Airbuses for summer time-table
4. Than commission find it is not real because of type rating (Jesus, they did not know that in advance?)
...and all of that in just 3-4 months... that is Jatovanje by head of company (Minister) and his advisers (that should be experts from state owned company named Jat).
Also commission was found by Government! And did nothing! Even did not have meeting for more than one month.
So you are inside. Give us precise information:
- will you lease any aircraft for this year summer timetable?
- if so, what will that be Airbus or Boeings?
- if not how will you realize summer timetable especially with planed increasing frequencies?
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Deletedon't want to talk about sense or nonsense of leasing airbus planes...
Deletejust want to share my experience about your statement regarding typerating on airbus aircrafts.
last year i completed the typerating (initial conversion course) for the A32X family by Swiss Aviation Training (SAT).
the whole training, including MCC part, ground/technical lessons, CBT (comp. based training), IPT (instrument procedure trainer), 78 full sim lessons and thereafter the flight-training lasted 3 months...
Yes it can be done. As you know I am consulter in HSPP and I ask their pilots about type rating procedure and how much time you have to spend. It can be done in 3 months, but USUALLY it takes 6 months especially if you try to find that in last second and you did not book terms much in advance. I gave you example on this blog of one very respectable school. As you can do it faster (if you are lucky), you can do it even slower than 6 mounts in case there is no free capacity. And trust me they don't wait just for Jat!
DeleteAnd let me remind you, those guys wont to do it in one month. And that quick not even Chuck Norris can do it.
I think Purger should better stick to Croatian news (while they're still around) cause he's clearly clueless.
DeleteYou made fun of me when I in December said it will never happened because leasing and type rating can not be done in 3 months if you did not book capacity much in advance. Than again in January I said there is no way to do that in two months, not even if you have unlimited funds. Now it NEWS that type rating can not be done in this short time. And I am clueless? Guys that is common knowledge.
DeleteOMG! How can it be possible that Jat is paying more than the other carriers? No wonder they're losing ton of money: planes are costly to fly, there's too many ppl on the payroll, tickets are cheap and their suppliers are ripping them off.
ReplyDeleteJust lease the planes already (Boeings are great for this season, but they should train staff for airbuses since they have to buy airbuses), get work for all the staff and fly!
This is 4th time that they announce plane leasing in December, and than in March they announce deal is canceled. Fact is it was never on!
ReplyDeleteSo let me remind you a short history of this year leasing comedy:
December – we will lease 2 A319, 2 A320, 2 ATR 72-500. We find commission to arrange everything.
January – commission didn't even have meeting for more than one month. To lease planes and to train crew is so easy. You just announce that you want some Airbuses, you pay, they will come, and Boeing pilots and cabin crew will fly them next day! «So we have time».
February – it is so complicated. We find that we need several months for training crew to Airbuses. Just if we were so clever to think about Boeing, but Airbuses looks so nice...
In near future (March) – well we did our best, but we could not lease those planes because of complications...
As least this time they made burlesque... Last 3 times they just informed us that deal was not realized!
What kind of experts you have in Jat? Children 10 years old or some miners become Jat air experts?
Well you are more than welcome to join the airline and fix it since you are so competent.
Deleteanonymous at 10:48 is retarded!!!
DeleteExempt that you give me a name and show how uncivilized you are, give me any counter-arguments. What is not true in this story?
DeleteJanuary - You think a airline that sinks $30mil a year compared to a economy not being able to fund Pensions is a priority ??? Yes i know thats 30mil less they have but thats a small sum to the real problems accross the balkans....
DeleteFeb- They opted the airbus for long term fleet substitute hence why the topic says LONG TERM LEASE AGREEMENT... But current shortages for this summer has changed the plans of it, There could have been a possible SUbContract of AIbus pilots to fill in during the Jat Pilot traiing that was being concided and after deeper revue cound it more cost efficient to change to NG then bringing Airbuses re train and fund Temp Pilots
March (Near Future) - You will still be a twat
Good, wet lease planes, pay for crew and have some 90 pilots + cabin crew + maintenance on salary to do nothing. Bravo! How to blow another 20-30 millions into wind.
DeleteThere is shortage in Airbus for leasing? You are joking right? Or this is one more story for public that believe everything what is presented in "dnevnik".
There is a fleet shortage at Jat you deadshot not with airbuses hence why i believe they have change the strategy..... On your 90 pilots + Cabin + MAINTENANCE????(JAT TEHNIKA IS A SEPERATE COMPANY) it is planed to reduce the work force by 600 and with your average companies biggest CODB being Salaries then thats halving your loss right there..... You know the difference with Jat and Cro or even Adria ? There is a fukload of FAT THAT CAN BE TRIMMED OFF AND IMPROVED AT JAT TO MAKE IT PROFITABLE UNLIKE THE OTHER 2 MENTIONED WHO ARE BASICALLY RUNNING ON THE SMALLEST CODB
DeleteIt is planed to reduce the work force by 600... yes, it is a plan! You and me know that will never be realized...
DeleteBut even if they do so, it will not be in another 6 months and they will still loose extra 10-15 million EUR because of wet lease and staff who get salary and doing nothing.
The rest of your post is really incomprehensible.
Hmmm...wasn't there someone on this forum who said that some Libyan Airbus's have been already painted in JAT colours?
ReplyDelete@ Purger
Delete"So this information that 4 Airbuses wait in Libya in Jat colors is also misinformation (“inside information”). Or someone is so stupid to spend money for something they can not realize, or someone lied here."
But if leasing 4 airbuses seems out to be costly why not lease 4 Boeing 737-500,700,800? The postive idea with leasing boeings had been that they dident need traning because JAT has alot of experience and training from Boeings.
ReplyDeleteNot true, the 737-700/800 is a completely different aircraft to what Jat is flying today and has more in common with airbus 320s than Jats 737-300s. Same amount of retraining required for Jats crews if they were to fly the 737 ng(700/800) or A319/320s. Best Jat can do now is to try to find some airworthy 737-400s to supplement the fleet.
DeleteIncorrect A NG Rating from a classic pilot can take 4-6 weeks.
DeleteWrong, a pilot who just completed his flight training can be endorsed with a A320 or 737 NG in just 4 weeks but the problem is being checked to line which requires a specialised captain to check each crew member and fly with that crew member an x amount of hours. This is where it becomes really tricky for Jat. All they could realistically do is introduce 1 airbus or NG at a time and gradually replace the fleet. 737-400 is there only hope for this year, that or wet lease aircraft.
DeleteActually wrong again i meant you could be in the air in 4 weeks ..... technically you dont even need to be NG rated as 300-900 are the same rating only these days you cant go out and find a place that will do you a classic rating only a airline would do it which have them in there fleet.... However the FAA and Boeing both state that 300-900 are the same rating and it is up to the airline whether it requires you to do complete ground/sim and field training on the specific aircraft which most do and most the time is complete in 4 or 5 days... Jat on the other hand doesnt need to all that it request is a Classic to NG difference CBT ..... Check Captain can also be promoted to NG after only a week of ground study and approx 4 tech exams.... Only 100-200 need a complete new rating ... So in saying all that its completly up to the airline how it approaches it... Read up on it
DeleteOk, but what does JAA require, the have a different and at times tougher requirement to the FAA
DeleteI am shocked about so much conflicting and contradicting information. Isn't there any JAT media department? Why does the government make all these announcements if there is still no decision?
ReplyDeleteAnd as we learn from day to day, there is no a/c type,no number of a/c and so on....just rumours and bullshit. They will end up with very costly wet leases because time is running to fast to catch up with all the trainings....
Why -500s? It's not Next Generation 737.
ReplyDelete-700s and -800s are in my opinion best choice.
And I agree with you for leasing Boeings. Jat is using Boeing's aircrafts since 1970s and 737s from 1985, so there is a lot of experience with them. I know that Classics and NGs are not the same plane, but training won't last as long as it last to train a crew for a whole new aircraft. And beside money, Jat is in shortage of a time too, so they don't have time to spare on training a crew.
I hope they will choose wisely.
hello, OT: i am curious about something, so, i am wondering which routes are the busiest from BEG, but not in number of flights to european cities, but the number of passengers? if somebody knows, please write it here, or EXYU, if its possible you to give me some statistics... what i know is that vienna is deffinitely the busiest one, than podgorica, maybe frankfurt, zurich, munchen, moscow, etc.. but i am so so curious about number of pax. thanx a lot and have a nice valentines, which i consider as a normal, casual day, not more than that!. regards from belgrade!
ReplyDeleteThe last paragraph of you article is an absolute nonsense! In the mentioned Government's Conclusion there is no single word about JU paying higher fees at its home base. The Government has ordered Jat to reassess agreements with Jat Technics, Su-Port and belgrade Airport in terms of payment hence Jat hasn't for almost 2 years paid anything to BEG and that in 2012 solely for passenger service JU debts to BEG has arised to 15 mil EUR! So the Conclusion says JU to reassess payment policy! This can be confirmed if you take a look at JU 2013 business plan where the solely demand is for assessing agreement with Jat Technics. So please double-check before publishing, this way your otherwise excellent reputation becomes questionable.
ReplyDeleteI think his reputation is already far from being excellent.
DeleteI will believe it when I see it
ReplyDeleteHocemo li ikada docekati da JAT-ova Press sluzba saopsti pravo stanje stvari i prekine sve ove rekla-kazala price i spekulacije????
ReplyDeleteMozda ih ima previse u Press sluzbi, pa je tesko odlucit ko ce potpisat saopstenje i ko ce ga napisat.
DeleteKao kolega,zanimat e me komentari osoblja JAT-a kad predju na Airbus-e..mislim da ce im nedostajati EFIS kao i Autopilot i FMS,ali ce ostalim na AB-usu biti odusevljeni:)I naravno,mnogo je laksi prelaz sa 73 na A32 nego obratno.Prijat ce im prelaz na A32.Pozdrav iz USA.
ReplyDeleteThere is zero (ZER0) chance that flying bag of sh*te Jat will still be around in 2015!!! All their cabin crew will be dead by then.
ReplyDeleteYou mean croatia airlines.
DeleteIn the end, they are considering Embraer 190 instead of A319. Talks are going on to lease a Airbus A330 for Russia and USA/Canada.
ReplyDeleteLet me give you just one example from Jet Flight & Instructor Training Ltd (from London):
ReplyDeleteThe Ground school is conducted at Shoreham Airport.
The Simulator training is conducted at either London Gatwick or London Heathrow Airports.
- 12 days Ground School including ECAM and FMGS details.
- 16 hours of Fixed base simulator
- 36 hours Full flight simulator
- LST (Licence Skill Test) - 4 hours Full flight simulator
- Aircraft Base Training (up to a maximum of 6 landings in any one hour)
Duration of course : 9 - 12 weeks
Please note that MCC can be incorporated into the above course adding an additional three days ground school and 4 hours additional fixed base simulator.
Airlines are normally trained alot quicker by the actual Manufacturer not a private school .... Those as mentioned above are for pilots similar to me who have flown in GA and want a type rating to try ease into AIrlines quicker rather then waiting for an opportuntiy for an airlines to take in fresh training pilots which is hard to find these days
DeleteWho is gonna pay this?
ReplyDeleteThe Serbian taxpayer!
ReplyDeleteSlight OT: has anyone used Jat's frequent flyer app? It is ugly, very confusing, slow and technically bad. As it was written by a high school kid in one afternoon. It would have been bad as an internal application and it is absolutely embarassing for a customer facing app. I hope Serbia is not exporting this kind of software and I know many IT people (myself included) who would design a better website in exchange for a dozen RT vouchers.
ReplyDeleteIts going to get the money from money tees..
ReplyDelete