Jat Airways soon to join Etihad’s family
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Etihad Airways will take over a 49% stake in Jat Airways next Monday, July 22, when a signing ceremony between the Emirati carrier and the Serbian government is expected to take place in Belgrade. “The agreement is expected to be signed on July 22 because everything has already been agreed upon. Our side has accepted Etihad’s offer. Since Jat is in bad shape we didn’t have much space to negotiate”, an official taking part in the takeover process told Serbia’s national daily “Politika”. Following the signing ceremony, Etihad plans to secure ten Airbus A319s for Jat for the upcoming winter season and retire the ageing Boeing 737 fleet immediately, with Bombardiers scheduled for next summer. While the takeover date is not set in stone for next Monday, it will take place by the end of July.
As EX-YU Aviation News learns, Etihad plans to turn Jat (regardless of its subsequent name) into a competitive and strong airline in the region. Only this winter several new routes will be launched to cities in the former Yugoslavia, the Balkan region, Eastern Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. Frequencies are to be boosted to key western European cities as well. Etihad also plans to put emphasis on service quality. The national carrier of the United Arab Emirates has requested utmost discretion with information regarding its future plans for Jat and is expected to reveal them to the public at a press conference following the takeover signing ceremony.
As the takeover date draws near, officials from Etihad Airways have begun frequenting Belgrade. Following a high ranking delegation last week, a new delegation will be arriving in the Serbian capital today. During last week, Etihad CEO, James Hogan, also made a short stop in Belgrade. Furthermore, EX-YU Aviation News learns Etihad is satisfied with the results recorded on its recently launched Abu Dhabi - Belgrade - Abu Dhabi service. The airline is seeing a large amount of early bookings with Jat also recording strong bookings on its own code on the Abu Dhabi service. Furthermore, the Serbian carrier is finalising a codeshare agreement with Etihad’s equity partner, Air Berlin, on flights to the United States.
OMG this will be so exciting to follow! I am really happy that Jat will be the most dominant carrier in the wider region. I am almost confident that they will launch Sofia and Ljubljana as one of the first destinations.
ReplyDeleteAt one point it was announced that Jat would need 8 regional aircraft. I wonder if we might see the arrival of additional Atrs to help expand the regional network.
a little OT: does anyone know something about OV's flight to Gyumri in Armenia tomorrow from BEG?
ReplyDeleteas fot JAT & Etihad, can't wait next monday :-)
FC Partizan match in CL qualifiers in aArmenia on Wednesady.
DeleteShirak Gyumri v Partizan related charter probably.
Deleteaaa, ok, thanks
DeleteProposed Jat regional routes:
ReplyDeleteAll-year:
3 daily: Podgorica (ATR/CRJ or A319)+ YM flights
3 daily: Tivat (ATR/CRJ or A319) + YM flights
2 daily: Sarajevo (ATR/CRJ and A319) code share JA
2 daily: Skopje (ATR/CRJ and A319)
1 daily: Banja Luka (ATR/CRJ)
1 daily: Zagreb (ATR/CRJ and the begining)
1 daily: Ljubljana (ATR/CRJ)code share JP
1 daily: Sofia (A319)
1 daily: Thessaloniki (ATR/CRJ)
Seasonal (summer):
3 daily: Tivat (2 additional flights during summer)
4 weekly: Split (ATR/CRJ)
4 weekly: Dubrovnik (ATR/CRJ)
4 weekly: Pula (ATR/CRJ)
3 weekly: Ohrid (ATR/CRJ)
no one is saying they're going to get CRJs
DeleteI just wrote CRJ refering to a "small jet plane" like CRJ or Embraer and CRJ is for me a common word for a 50-seats-jet =)
Deleteno one is saying they're going to get small jets. Q400 makes perfect sense for these routes.
DeleteTo make regional leader + conection to Etihad and Air Berlin "must" is:
DeletePodgorica - 3 daily A319
Tivat - 2 daily A319 (3 daily on summer)
Sarajevo - 2 daily Q400
Skopje - 2 daily Q400
Zagreb - 2 daily Q400
Ljubljana - 2 daily Q400
Banja Luka - 1 daily Q400 owernight
Split - 1 daily Q400 owernight
Dubrovnik - 1 daily Q400 owernight
Pula-Zadar - 1 daily Q400 owernight
Ohrid-Mostar - 1 daily Q400 owernight
Sofia - 1 daily Q400 owernight
Bucharest - 1 daily Q400 owernight
to hurry today to run to holiday
Deleteowernight = overnight
conection = connection
sorry!
I hope SKP gets an xtra daily flight too.
DeleteThe 6am flight is just horrible.
OU and JP have afternoon flights and thats why I prefer them- who on earth wants to get up at 4am to catch a flight???
@purger
DeleteI think the ATR is suitable for JAT's needs, and I think with the Dash 8's the routes wouldnt be as profitable as with the ATR, as the ATR is great for those short hops.
TGD and TIV already have those frequencies, and dont see the need for the A319 to be wasted for such a turn. However, if its to avoid having the a/c on ground in BEG, fair enough, otherwise, the a/c could be used for a better route.
SJJ must go double daily. SKP can do better than double daily, and does in the summer go to I believe 10 x weekly.
ZAG must open, and LJU reopen. LJU would be enough for 1 daily considering there is JP presence in BEG. DBV and SPU should be all year, PUY im not soo sure on, but loads are traditionally being strong. OHD I wouldnt say all year as a daily, OMO I dunno how it would fetch as well. SOF must reopen, OTP reopen but that would be interesting with RO presence as well. Maybe even TSR.
Expect TIA to reopen, BUD and MUC. TXL will go daily, ZRH would double daily, as well with CDG. LGW I believe will stay open all year and JAT will max out its LHR slots. Im execting BEY to reopen, TIP and CAI.
U're talking crap out of your mouths, Dash8 400Q is more fuel efficient and better aircraft than ATR72300 or 500.
DeleteOnly reason you're taking ATR72's position of being better aircraft is cause JAT has 2 of them, meanwhile in a real world almost every airline there is that looks at regional flights chooses to go with Dash 8-400Q.
JAT is a 3rd rate airline saved with massive injection of capital by the Serb state and now it seems might be sold to Ethiad for a peanuts, and they it seems to me are reluctant to take even when airline is literally free.
JAT as an airlin will case to be what ever happens with in next 6 months, and if Air Serbia ever takes to air it'll be a small regional airline that Ethiad will run as a feeder for its routes, nothing else.
Air Berlin is what Ethiad wanted and has, the rest don't matter.
Wake up and smell a coffee
If you consider the whole South-Eastern Europe as a "small region" then i would agree that the dominant airline of such a region could only be considered as 'small' as well...right? What will be then with secondary airlines such as Croatia?
DeleteBeing a "feeder" for Lufthansa and feeder for Etihad has nothing to do. Etihad will own 49% of Jat therefore Jat's profit and growth IS in Etihad's interest, nothing to do with 5 daily to FRA/MUC from Zagreb and accommodating network to serve the colonial rulers...
"JAT is a 3rd rate airline saved with massive injection of capital by the Serb state and now it seems might be sold to Ethiad for a peanuts, and they it seems to me are reluctant to take even when airline is literally free."
I guess you talked with "them" personally so you know how reluctant they are.
Jat is not a 3rd rate but 3 stars airline by Skytrax passengers rating, better than many European airlines by the way. www.airlinequality.com/Forum/jat.htm
Anyway, the Jat deal is part of a much larger game that you don't understand.
To be the feeder of one of the airlines with the strongest growth in the world with flights all around Europe and Mediterranean and code-sharing on flights all over the world sounds better than cutting routes, reducing frequencies, fleet and selling everything but keeping pathetic FRA/MUC rotations to feed LH... I guess the 'small' airline won't be worse than Croatia.
Should i offer you some coffee or they don't serve it anymore on OU flights already as part of cost-cutting measures?
Regarding proposed regional schedules: is it realistic for Jat to have 7-8 regional planes? Otherwise, the proposed schedule is too optimistic...
DeleteIf I read correctly, the schedule follows a strategy that can be summed up as follows:
- thin O&D routes: 1 daily overnight flight that also serves long-haul connections (where waiting 4-5 hours in BEG is OK, most of the pax are O&D)
- facilitating connections: morning wave and evening wave
- spare capacity for <1-per-day thin routes mid-day
The problem with this is that you cannot do morning feeder flights with the same planes that were serving "overnight" destinations. Would it make sense to use small regional planes for day time feeder flights and fly overnight flights with larger jets that will go on to fly bigger routes during the day? (this is somewhat similar to evening 733 flights to SKP/TIV that Jat does sometimes)
Personally, I think Jat could make money doing 5x/day between Nis and Belgrade.
ReplyDeleteToday there are 44 buses between Nis and Belgrade. I don't recall the ticket price, but I think it's around 25 euros for a return trip. Most buses I've taken have been pretty full.
I know... everyone tells me "people are used to taking the bus, they won't take the plane". That's just a matter of marketing (and pricing).
You don't need a lot of passengers to make this trip pay for itself. I'm sure they could sell seats, with already this many people going between the two cities every day. 45e for a return trip or 200e for a book of 10 one-way tickets that expire in 4 months. For an extra 10e have a bus that picks you up right at the plane and takes you downtown (with valet service for checked bags)
This is what I'd like to see.
45€ for a return trip?
DeleteAre u kidding ?
Only the tax at BEG is (I think) 18€...
The cheapst return ticket would cost 80 - 90 € for BEG-INI-BEg flight.
well, they should drop the taxes for these regional flights. easy to do without other airlines complaining. 5e tax for a domestic flight and no one else gets a license. They don't need to charge so much, especially if they make up for it in volume.
DeleteIt doesn't have to cost so much for a 30 min flight.
That's what logically should be done but logic is rarely applied in these areas.
DeleteI could see the night flight being operated as Belgrade-Nis-Kraljevo with the return flight spending the night in KVO and then arriving back to Belgrade via INI shortly before the first wave of departures.
You can´t drop the taxes fot the regional flights !!!
DeleteIt is against the competiton rights!
I realy don´t knwo what people are thinking when tay say 2The ticket could cost...".
You have to pay:
- plane
- crew
- taxes
- fuel
...
Every passenger has to pay per direction:
plane: 15 - 20 €
crew: 5 €
taxes: 18 € or 12 € for Terminal 1 in BEG
other costs: 10 - 20 €
--> minimum 42 € for fixed costs!
Additional to that, the passenger has to pay THE FUEL and Jat also want´s to make a PROFIT (+5€).
what's anti-competitive if you drop taxes for domestic flights. You're dropping it for everyone that wants to start a domestic airline. It's only anti-competitive if you drop taxes for some carriers and not for others.
Deletepretty sure you could sharpen the pencil, Sarajevo. I'd rather think of the fix costs per flight. How many pax to the need to break even at which price points.
Serbia can afford to drop the taxes because we are not in the European Union so we can do whatever we want.
DeleteKada se takse ukinu, od cega ce se onda finansirati aerodrom u NIS-u?
DeleteNikola Tesla kao akciono durstvo nikada ne bi ukinulo takse jer to akcionari ne bi dozvolili.
Osim toga da li karta kosta plus minus 12 € i nije toliko bitno.
Karta za BEG-INI-BEG jednostavno ne moze biti jeftinija od 80 € da bi bila rentabilna.
what does it cost to fly the plane for 30 mins? How many passengers to break even. These are the only questions.
DeleteIf the can fill the plane, they can make a profit.
70pax X 20e is 1400euros. Can they do this 10x a day (5x 2 directions).
The right price and the right service could fill the plane regularly.
BS, "the shareholders won't allow it"
Deleteunless they're idiots.
5e/passenger on 100s of passengers is way more money than 18e/passenger for 0 passengers
just as long those flights can connect to major departure/arrival banks, those flights will fill. Not all arriving pax are from BEG, and I am sure those from the US and Australia would appreciate the direct flight to Nis. Having said that, a BEG-INI-TXL, or BEG-INI-IST flight would be better, considering that JAT can take Etihad pax from IST for example and send them direct to Nis with JAT, rather then sending them to BEG and then waiting for connections.
DeleteWe need a good train connection between belgrade and nish. That should be a priority - an standard inter city express can manage a 250km line in one hour or even 45-50 minutes. That should be a priority, not some phantasies about 5 flights a day.
DeleteI agree, but I think Jat will have an available Q400 for 5 flights a day before all the necessary parties get a proper rail line developed
DeleteBelgrade and Nis are way too close for this to work without proper connections between airports and inner cities and without high number of connecting passengers. 2-3 daily flights + some regional flights (O&D) make sense, competing with buses is too ambitious.
DeleteRegarding trains, you don't need 250km/h to be very useful, max speed of a regularly scheduled train in Switzerland is 200km/h (running faster requires dedicated lanes on a flat surface without curves or very complex signalling). Running 160km/h will be good enough - for that you need some repairs of the tracks + minor upgrade to signalling + new trains. With a fleet of Stadtler Flirts ordered by the railway company (21 trains that start arriving in fall 2014) we will hopefully have good inter-city connections (hourly trains between Belgrade and Nis that arrive in less than 2 hours)
As a comparison point - between Geneva and Paris you have around 7 daily direct TGV trains (+ the same number of 1 stop connections, travel time is around 4 hours). Swiss doesn't fly the route, EasyJet flies 23 weekly to Orly (targeting leisure market, tickets are always cheaper than TGV), but AirFrane flies 61 weekly to CDG, many of them A321. I took one of these AF flights recently and most of the passengers connected onwards (to long-haul destinations with plenty of luggage).
DeleteAre you honestly comparing Paris and Geneva to Belgrade and Nis?
DeleteThe problem with Nis is the lack of proper infrustructure in the south, lack of marketing, and the standard in the south is not that great. Nis had charter flights from London several years back, but after 2 seasons, the traffic went to Plovdiv in Bulgaria. Im amazed how after 8 years there is still no push to market Nis and its surroundings to at least attract some form of tourism.
With the right marketing and pricing policies , and good timings and/or connections, a couple of flights between BEG and INI are perfectly possible and viable. Hopefully new management will take that into condideration.
DeleteI overdid it a bit :) I tried to point that for short distances (<400km) flights that don't target transit passengers or are very cheap have no chance.
DeleteI agree, of course, with everyone that argued for marketing to tourists and one stop flights to IST/TXL/VIE. I'm curious, though, how you compare London flights to Nis and Plovdiv - to me they seem to be targeting completely different markets...
There are lots of Swiss Air flight between Geneva and Zurich, even though the train is only 20-30 mins longer (when taking into account all time, check-in, security, etc), leaves every 20 mins and is generally nicer to take than the plane.
DeleteI sad treba povuči paralelu:
ReplyDeleteFlota:
Jat - 10 novih A319 do zime + novi Q400 do ljeta
Croatia - povčati jedan A320, dolaze rabljeni Embraeri
Linije:
Jat - nove linije prema exYU, Balkanu, Istočnoj Europi, Africi i Bliskom Istoku + code-share na svakodnevnim letovima do Abu Dhabia + code-share prema SAD-u
Croatia - ukidanje linija, smanjenje frekvencija, ukidanje LHR, prodaja slotova, jedine linije koje se povečavaju su prema Lufthansinim hubovima (počelo se letjeti čak i iz ZAD za FRA i MUC).
Strategija:
Jat - regionalni lider koji će pokrivati regiju za Etihad, a koji u dogledno vrijeme nema planove za ekspanziju u regiji, dočim će se preko BEG transferirati putnici za Bliski Istok (i dalje), te za SAD, a istovremeno se povečava broj mogučih konekcija i za Europi, regiju i Afriku
Croatia - feeder Lufthanse, Zagreb prestaje biti hub, zanemariva prisutnost u regiji (smanjuje se SJJ, PRN, SKP, ukinuo se TGD i OMO)
Budućnost:
BEG postaje istinski hub za exYU, u prvom redu na račun ZAG
Jat postaje najvažniji igrač u regiji i preuzima velik dio tržišta Adriji i Croatiji (i to ne samo SJJ, SKP, PRN, nego i SPU, DBV, ZAD i PUY), a djelomično i Austrianu i Lufthansi
Zagrebački putnici ne samo da će ubuduće još više putovati iz VIE, BTS, BUD, VCE, nego će sada i masovno putovati iz BEG.
povčati jedan A320 = povlači jedan A320
DeleteВерујем да Јат није само опасност Кроацијану и Адрији већ и Тарому и Бугарима јер је споменуто балканско ширење. Уверен сам да ћемо видети летове ка Букурешту и Софији.
DeleteБиће занимљиво пратити будућност Визера сада када Јат постане озбиљан играч.
Iskreno, meni se ne dopadaju ovakve paralele. Avijacija nije danas isto sto i pre 20 godina. Potpisani su razni medjunarodni ugovori, trziste je otvoreno, svest se promenila. Ljudi hoce da putuju udobno, sigurno, priustivo, trziste jugoistocneevrope ima 70 miliona dusa, sto je sasvim dvovoljno za nekoliko uspesnih kompanija. Ako Croatia proadne, onda to nece biti zbog JAT-a, Adrije ili Olimpika, nego zbog sopstvenog nastupa. Sada pokusavamo ovde da se usmerimo na JAT.
DeleteWizz has tried to make expansion before the takeover. They've done something but it will not help enough. This time next year they'll be facing some additional financial problems.
DeleteI agree about Bucharest and SOF
Does Serbia have open skies agreement with EU and or Croatia? If not than any attempt by Etihad to move into the Croatian market via Jat will be blocked by both the Croatian government and OU to protect LH 'oops' I mean OU.
DeleteSerbia has an open skies agreement with EU countries. Croatia is now in the EU.
DeleteOk,
DeleteSo if Jat does start double daily's to Croatian destination than should OU be worried? This should be a catalyst for OU to really consider daily Dubai and Moscow from Zagreb as a blocking move.
Nothing wrong with healthy competition. :)
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
DeleteYes but what has stopped OU from launching Dubai or Moscow in the past? Nothing. Their problem lies in their lack of independence from Lufthansa. Only once they get rid of this supervision they could expand. Nothing until then.
DeletePurger the old hierarchy is back..
ReplyDeleteBEG/JU Nr. 1
ZAG Nr. 2
And whatever else this will def lead to the end of some other Players in the ex YU.
Adria could remain the charter Airlines for the coast and do some important ex LJU lines feedering star alliance hub. but only as being a part of OU.
YM,BA to disappear
I m sure JU will be a good product. no more jatovanje, hot meals on flights over 80 minutes
nice Business class not just middle seat free etc etc
i m looking Forward to my first JU flight A319 within the next months :-)
Unless the European Commission orders Adria to pay back the funds it received over the years. Then it will be the end of it.
Delete@JU520 BEGLAX: I hope you're right about business class, but I won't get my hopes up. Whole Europe is playing the thin seats/middle seat blocked/tiny snacks/no alcohol game, how could JU justify the cost of offering a better product?
DeleteIf Etihad is launching daily flights to Banja Luka then we can say with confidence that no other regional city will be launched with less than a daily rotation. Especially since Banja Luka seems to have very low demand.
ReplyDeleteI could see quite a few Croatian coastal cities having year round service, especially Dubrovnik and Pula. The latter mostly because the airport has always been friendly towards Jat.
I do have a question. If Croatia Airlines is downsizing and introducing Embraer aircraft, is there a possibility to see the Dash-8 leave the fleet? Or is it more likely to see a fleet of Embraers and Dash-8s?
As for Jat's future network, I can see them starting St. Petersburg and Kiev in eastern Europe and Cairo and Tripoli in northern Africa.
The only destination in Eastern Europe that comes in mind is
DeleteSaint Peterburg.
Moscow,Saint Peterburg and eventually charters for the Sochi Olympics.
There is no need for Kiev...
When you hear "regional network" you mostly think of Ex-Yu countries + Bulgaria, Romania... But i wonder if JU would venture into markets such as Chisinau, Lvov or Odessa, which are at the same or less distance than say Athens or Istanbul, which are operated by the ATR. Those are highly underserved and growing markets.
DeletePS: Last Anonymous, can you elaborate on your thinking that "there is no need for Kiev" and give some sources. Thanks/
Even if there might be 'no need' for O&D on BEG-KBP route, there is need for KBP->TGD, TIV, SKP, ATH, SKG, SJJ via BEG as well as to some Western destinations, why not, CSA operates highly successfully on several routes from Ukraine, relying mostly on transfer pax. Ukraine is just a too big of a market to be ignored by any airline looking forward to a prominent role in European air traffic. Besides, the connections between the two countries are abysmal. Things got better with Pegasus arrival to BEG but still you can't fly with them to Kiev. If i remember well there is like 7-8000 yearly pax on BEG-KBP, without a direct line.
DeleteEx-Yu I would like to thank you for these great updates on Etihad's takeover of Jat. Since the very beginning you have provided us with valuable insight and with the latest information. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI would also like to say that you are my favourite source of airline information in Serbia. I follow other sources as well but for example, most of the articles on aviokarta.net are just transmitted and translated from foreign portals where the information is mostly irrelevant for us in Serbia. Tango Six on the other hand has very poor articles on civil aviation and his tone is very bad most of the time.
I would like to thank you for your professionalism and I hope that you will keep up with your amazing work in the future.
I agree with you on everything but I would also like to point out that you are more than right when it comes to Tango Six. If you read his two latest articles you will see what kind of unprofessional language he uses. He calls Mrkonjic Mrka (without the inverted commas) and then uses some street language such as 'blam'.
DeleteNot very professional in my opinion.
Professional or not, its always good to have a mix of information and sources.
DeleteTango Six is not so special about legacy carriers/Belgrade
but it has its focus more on light aviation,
in this regard it is doing a good job.
Dont compare apples with peas!
Then they should not force us to compare apples to pears. If they are not a civil aviation portal then they should not write about it. Simple as that.
DeleteWizzair has nothing to be afraid of!,they are meeting a stronger competition across Europe than in Belgrade after an eventually takeover by Etihad.There are so many routes out there to be activated and i think that wizzair easily could activate a third aircraft within a year without any problem!.
ReplyDeletewho knows, maybe JU joins Oneworld (with the backing of AB), because Oneworld's presence in the region is virtualy non-existent since Malev has gone bankrupt (apart from few flights to the region, there is no member company), unlike Star and SkyTeam which cover the region pretty damn well.
ReplyDeleteI really hope JAT rather joins SkyTeam or Star, as they in my opinion are far more superior alliances both in terms of member airlines, lounges and routes. But I doubt JAT will join any alliance unless EY joins it as well..
DeleteIf the Etihad takes JAT, JAT cannot join other alliance than OneWorld for obvious reasons (Virgin and Air Berlin are already part of the OneWorld).
Delete@Nikola: can you elaborate on the good SkyTeam coverage of the region? I would argue that their presence in Ex-Yu countries is very limited, especially in BEG... Every time I plan flying to Ex-YU, I try fly with a new airline, but in the end always choose Star Alliance, Jat or Wizz.
Deletewell, just to BEG we have double daily SU to SVO (plus double daily codeshare with JU), AZ daily to FCO (plus daily JU codeshare), RO's 6 x week to OTP, then JU's codeshares daily to AMS (with KL), double daily to CDG (with AF) and 5 x week to MXP (codeshare with AZ). sure, it is small comparing to Star Alliance, but is way better than Oneworld's coverage (which is literally 0 (QR is future memeber))
DeleteThanks for doing the math for me! I didn't count JU codeshares in my mind... Still as you said, there is space for expansion of both SkyTeam and OneWorld...
DeleteStvarno ima ludog sveta:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.politika.rs/rubrike/Ekonomija/Jat-u-Itihadu-do-kraja-meseca.lt.html
"Pre neki dan je Politika objavila moj osvrt na ovaj neslavni i nemoralan dogadjaj; prvo JAT nije u nekoj stvarno teskoj novcanoj situaciji, postoje avioprevoznici sa gubicima od stotina, milijardi €vra i preziveli su uspesnom politikom i radom, Drugo, Etihad prezima JAT bez duga i sa prepolovljenim brojem zaposlenih, i preuzima letilice za koje je JAT dao akontaciju. Trece, Etihad zeli da se naturi Evropi kao najvecem trzistu posle SAD, zeli da preotme putnike od evropskih avioprevoznika na interkontinentalnim letovima, ima flotu koja je daleko veca od potrebe za tu
" drzavicu ". Ovde se radi o Lufthansi, British Airways i Air France - KLM. Za tu svrhu mu JAT dobro dolazi kao evropski avioprevoznik, koji ce koristiti kao Trojanskog konja. Mozda trenutni ministar Mrkonjic´nije informisan da Srbija leti u EU, da ce ovim cinom uznemiriti trziste u Evropi, da ce naskoditi Evropi i JAT-u na dugim stazama.ali to ministra u koznoj jakni polusveta, izgleda ne zanima."
What is the catch with ATR and other non-jets? They are slower, passangers don´t like them, and concurets such as Montengro Airlines already have real jets for regional flights (Embraer). Personally, it does make a difference for me if the flight lasts 35 or 55 minutes; it does make a difference for me if i´m boarding on a ATR or some seriously looking jet such es Foker or Embraer. And I believe most of passaganers see that in the same way. Not to speak about the fact that ATR/CJR is not able to take cargo and many luggage pic have to be left on the ground if there are more than two families coming from the USA or Australia with big luggage.
ReplyDeleteThe catch is of course economics. On a typical short route of 300nm the fuel consumption of an ATR 72 is roughly half that of a regional jet. It's just natural that you'd rather take 30 than 55 minute flight. However, when you take into account cost per passenger you'll understand why airlines will put you through turboprop flight you don't like.
DeleteAlso, the need cargo on short rooutes is limited. And regarding your comment about families with lots of luggage you shouldn't be worried, they ahve anough room in hte underbelly for all your suitcases. Where they'll have less room is for onboard items but that is the same with RJ's
DeleteAs far as I know, the ATR is not having a luggage department under belly. It did happen quite a few times that regional carriers flying to Balkans with ATR could not take the whole luggage from Germany, for isntance. But I think Montenegro Airlines had the same problem with Foker on their Frankfurt routs - so it happend quite a few times that YM luggage was carried with JAT´s B 737.
DeleteIf you stick to the limits, nothing happens to your bags. Simple as that. The aircraft isnt a personal cargo flight as alot of Serbs believe it is, and its embarrasing to watch how our primitive people carry luggage abroad, and the lengths they would go to carry it with them! Luggage is no excuse as to why there should be bigger ac, lets bring in the A380 in that case!!!
DeleteOn most flights it doesnt really matter whether an ATR7 or B733 is being operated, I believe to VIE for example the difference is all of 10 mins!
@JATBEGMEL
DeleteI really doubt that you have ever took a plane journey in your whole life. There is no any particular "baggage allowance", there is a FREE baggage allowance, and comapnies are really happy to take some extra baggage and put enormous charges in account. There are also some other factors as the postal shipments and regular cargo, and if you put everything togehter the capacities of many small planes are just critical.
"On most flights it doesnt really matter whether an ATR7 or B733 is being operated, I believe to VIE for example the difference is all of 10 mins!"
DeleteTHe difference in respect of a BEG-VIE flight ist 25 minutes!
JAT: 0755-0930
Austrian: 0520-0630
If you also count that small planes are usually not gettting the gate position, it some additional 20 minutes more for a bus transfer at a busy airport. So in the case of BEG-VIE flight, the effective difference is 50 minutes.
Any idea when the codeshare between AirBerlin and JAT will be finalised? Also, how long before these flights are available for AA awards travel?
ReplyDeleteI am curious to see what other destinations in North Africa and Middle East they might open/reopen. I am thinking that BEY, AMM, TIP and CAI could be good candidates.
ReplyDeleteEver thought about Dubai...?
DeleteDXB would conflict on EY's pax numbers and dont believe it will reopen. DXB would only feed EK flights, which is something EY wouldnt want happening.
DeleteBEY I see reopening, AMM dont think, CAI yes, TIP maybe. Maybe BGW and THR will reopen.
People, I´m really impressed by the extent you are not getting what would with Etihad´s JAT aquisition go on (@ JATBEGMEL). It is wether a goal, not an aim of the aqusition to develope JAT as a strong company in the fashion of 1960´s, with covering THR (?), BGW (?) or some other random chosed destinations from the old middle east novels. The modern ailiner businnes is abouzt the regional perception, smart putting of the hubs and appropriate division of market. So if Etihad is flying from Abu Dhabi, it will most certanly not launch flights from belgrade to the destination that can be served via abu dhabi. On the other hand, the position of BElgrade is to be anlysed with having in mind that Etihad is already having "its" airliner in Berlin. So Belgrade would just fit perfect to be a hub for East Mediterranian passangers, North-East Africa, and if they are smart they will also put it as a hub for the flights from the sub-sahara africa, including Johanseburg. It´s not about just spreading the network, it is about a geopgraphical strategy - BEG may cover some 70 M passangers from Southeast Europe, and it also fist well for the accumulation of passangerf from Africa and East Mediterranian. On the other hand, Berlin is collection point for the Werst European passangers flying to middle east and Asia and vice versa.
Deleteyeah, i don't think so that BGW and THR will reopen. it's not the same situation as in the 70s when companies from YU were building all over the Iraq and Iran (and THR is now used only for domestic flights. interantional go ti IKA). plus, EY has its own flight to BGW and IKA, so what's the point then? CAI and TIP i my guess
DeleteOT: Bosnian airports - June 2013
ReplyDeleteSarajevo Airport - 72 949
Mostar Airport - 9 146
Tuzla Airport - 6 251 (Wizz)
Banja Luka Airport - 530
Dear God, cannot believe that Wizzair transported over 6000 passengers with only three destinations! Well done, nothing else to say! BNX should just watch and learn!!!!!
DeleteThere is also Freebird flying from TZL to Antalya!
DeleteWizz Air did good job in Tuzla, but there is a rumor that Wizz will cancel Basle route due to low booking rate.
It is expected to open Skavasta or Eindhoven instead of Basle.
Well done to TZL!!! Fantastic for a new route and for a new begining. Hope more routes and success follow.
DeleteDude, Sarajevo, where do you get your bogus Wizz rumors from? I've seen several now and can tell you with great certainty somebody's pretending they know more than they actually do.
DeleteLet me give you a few tips.
1. Basel is here to stay.
2. A base announcement is done at least 3-4 months in advance. If SJJ were getting an a/c next summer, you'd know it by October.. and SJJ has already lost the spring a/c allocation to another Balkan base ;) This year is already done and dusted.
BNX is the lowest of the low and its operator’s going to face and declare bankruptcy.
DeleteBribery and corruption’s laid waste to the company.
Natural end.
just wondering
ReplyDeletewith 2 daily TK flights IST-SKP and the popularity TK has in Macedonia (and flights around the world) ,its going to be hard to win over the macedonian passengers( those heading to the Middle East, Asia and beyond).
All of the Etihad destinations (except Australia) are reachable from SKP with a one stop in IST.
for example , who is going to fly SKP-BEG-AUH-BKK when u have SKP-IST-BKK ??
same goes for the AirBerlin connections ( here a direct link SKP-TXL/DUS is needed and would be really cool, otherwise it makes not much sense to fly to BEG then TXL/DUS and then somewhere else)
for the macedonian passengers the new JAT/Etihad situation is just another 2 stop option and nothing more
Some here take it for granted that everyone is gonna flock to the new JAT but im not so sure, except they will be offering very low fares of course
but We'll see ;)
and good luck!
P.S JAt should be more looking into the SKP-WestEurope market instead
Well JAT will not serve just a fedder for Etihad´s flights. That is even notin interest of Etihad as a shareholder.If they will try to build a regional leader of JAT, JAT will take passengers from SKP to the western, north and eastern europe. On the other hand, people from ZGB will certainly not fly to PAris via Belgrade, but they could use a connection to fly to Skoplje, Sofia, middle and far east nad so on.
DeleteWhy on earth will someone fly from ZAG to SKP via BEG if you have daily direct flight ZAG-SKP (in top season even 10 weekly flights).
DeleteYes but with OU downsizing, God knows how long these flights will last.
Delete"Why on earth will someone fly from ZAG to SKP via BEG if you have daily direct flight ZAG-SKP (in top season even 10 weekly flights)."
DeleteFor the same reason people are flying FRA-BEG via VIE - beacause it is cheaper.
BEG-FRA-BEG
Deletevia TGD, 195 euros
via LJU, 220 euros
via VIE, 240 euros
direct lufthansa flight, 257 euros
BEG-FRA-BEG
ReplyDeletevia TGD, 195 euros
via LJU, 220 euros
via VIE, 240 euros
direct lufthansa flight, 257 euros