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| Serbia threatens to limit Turkish Airlines flights to Belgrade |
The Serbian Civil Aviation Directorate has issued Turkish Airlines and Pegasus Airlines a temporary license to operate scheduled flights between Istanbul and Belgrade until July 1, after which the two carriers could be forced to significantly reduce their operations to the Serbian capital. The move comes as a result of an ongoing spat between the aviation authorities from the two countries. Problems arose last winter after Air Serbia was issued early morning slots at Istanbul’s Ataturk Airport, which the airline deemed unsuitable for its operations. It opted to relocate to the city’s second airport, Sabiha Gokcen, which offers fewer transit options for passengers. The airline has been attempting to return to Ataturk Airport ever since without much success.
An emergency meeting between the two sides is set to take place in Belgrade this week in an attempt to resolve the issue which has been ongoing since early this year. Turkey’s national carrier operates seventeen weekly services between Istanbul and the Serbian capital, however, the Directorate has warned these flights could be reduced to only a few per week if Air Serbia is not issued slots at Ataturk Airport. According to a bilateral air agreement between Serbia and Turkey, which is not being enforced, designated airlines from each country must operate the same number of flights between the two on a reciprocal basis. Besides Turkish Airlines’ seventeen weekly rotations, Pegasus Airlines also operates a further four weekly flights from Sabiha Gokcen while Air Serbia maintains seven weekly services. The Serbian carrier recently applied for slots at Istanbul’s Ataturk Airport for the 2014 summer season but has still not received a reply from the airport operator.
Turkish Airlines has been proving a headache for many national carriers in the former Yugoslavia as it continues to expand throughout the region. The airline has squeezed out Croatia Airlines on its Istanbul flights, forcing it to cancel its service to Turkey’s largest city. Furthermore, Turkish has trumped B&H Airlines, which has been forced to reduce services to its signature route while the Turkish carrier dominates in Sarajevo. In addition, the airline has recorded strong passenger growth in Belgrade, showing no affects from Jat Airways’ transition into Air Serbia. Turkish Airlines handled 35.755 passengers on its flights to and from Belgrade in the first quarter, making it the fifth busiest airline at the airport. The ongoing aviation spat between the two countries only applies to scheduled flights. Charter operations between Serbia and Turkey remain unaffected.
Still very bad LF in Air Serbia Dubrovnik-Belgrade flights, even for Saturday 7th June, which is top day in DBV:
ReplyDeleteAir Serbia A319 67 of 126 seats = 53,1%
In same time Croatia Airlines on Saturday
A319 131 of 132 seats = 99,2%
A319 141 of 144 seats = 97,9%
A319 138 of 144 seats = 95,8%
Did you even read the article before posting your comment?
DeleteLol not even two minutes have passed since this article was posted, and you succeeded in trashing Air Serbia right away.
DeleteHave you considered that perhaps the ATR was scheduled to fly the route, but since the airline is operating on only four ATRs right now, they had to send the A319?
OU fills its seats with holidaymakers booked via tourist agencies. Air Serbia relies on transfer and local passengers. This supposedly bad loadfactor speaks more of what market DBV really is than of what kind of airline Air Serbia is.
DeleteI guess this explains why there are so few scheduled airlines flying there.
Bulls**t. Almost all airlines that fly to DBV have scheduled and regular flights, there are charters but most of flights are with "normal" airlines(OU, Easyjet, Vueling, BA, Germanwings, Lufthansa, Austrian, Aer Lingus, Aeroflot, Finnair, Norwegian, Air Serbia etc.)
DeleteYeah and these are only in summer and are there because they sell their seats to tourist agencies. It doesn't matter if we are talking about Finnair or Thompson, the idea behind operating Dubrovnik flights remains unchanged. Only a handful of airlines are there for the classical transfer passengers as is the case with, for example, Zagreb.
DeleteHow can Load factor be “trashing”. That is fact and fact, it is exact number, and can not be trashing.
Delete“So few scheduled airlines”? Here is list of scheduled airlines:
Aer Lingus (Dublin)
Aeroflot (Moscow Scheremetyevo)
Air Serbia (Belgrade)
Austrian (Vienna)
British (London Gatwick)
Croatia (Rome, Zagreb, Amsterdam, Athens, Berlin Tegel, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Paris Charles de Gaulle, Tel Aviv, Venice, Vienna, Zurich)
EasyJet (Berlin Schonefeld, Edinburgh, Geneva, Lyon, Milan Malphensa, Rome, Paris Orly, London Gatwick, London Stansted)
Lot (Gdansk, Krakow, Poznan, Warshaw)
Finnair (Helsinki)
Flybe (Birmingham)
Germanwings (Berlin Tegel, Cologne, Hannover, Hamburg, Stuttgart, Dusseldorf)
Iberia (Madrid, Bilbao)
Israir (Tel Aviv)
Jet2 (Belfast, East Midlands, Edinburgh, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle)
Lufthansa (Frankfurt, Munchen)
Luxair (Luxemburg)
Norwegian (Bergen, Copenhagen, Helsinki, London Gatwick, Oslo Gardermoen, Sandefjord, Stavanger, Stockholm Arlanda, Trondheim)
S7 Airlins (Moscow Domodedovo)
SAS (Bergen, Copenhagen, Oslo Gardermoen, Stockholm Arlanda)
Trade Air (Rijeka, Split)
Transaero (Moscow Vnukovo)
Transavia (Paris Orly)
Ukraine International (Kiev)
Vueling (Barcelona, Rome)
+ lot of charters
And it is not true that all of them are seasonal
"Classical transfer" routes which have possibility for connections are:
Aer Lingus
Aeroflot
Air Serbia
Austrian
British
Croatia
Lot
Finnair
Iberia
Lufthansa
Luxair
S7 Airlines
SAS
Ukraine International
How many of those Belgrade have?
DBV isnt doing bad, hence why the increase in frequencies due to demand. It is a start to the summer season. Unfortunately the flights in JU are a bit of a hit and miss with the constant aircraft changes, but 67 seats is still a full ATR, which is good.
DeleteJU do great on the Croatian coast and I hope the flights serve our Croatian neighbours well. Thanks for the stats.
Are you seriously going to compare Belgrade and Dubrovnik?
DeleteAlso, out of those you listed maybe three or four airlines are really there for connecting passengers.
Or wait, are you trying to tell us that Luxair is transporting thousands of connecting passengers from Dubrovnik? ;)
Hahaha sure, ok.
Koliko je meni glupo ovo prepucavanje "moj tata je jaci od tvog tate". Mislim da nam se ljudi van Balkana koji citaju ovaj blog smeju...
Deletenoone is comparing DBV and BEG. But it is just reaction to your comments:
Delete1. LF in BEG-DBV is trashing - it is not, it is fact that LF for now is bad. And even if that is because of “last minute” more frequencies introduction that is product of bad planning and unprofessionalism and it is classical example of loosing money.
2. DBV does not have any „classical companies“ what is not true. That is trashing and not true at all.
Napisat ću ovo na Hrvatskom samo zato da stranci ne čitaju vaše glupost.
Delete1. Prvo napišete da je objava load factora „hejtanje“ i namjerno ocrnjavanje JU. Kako? Pa to je vrlo precizan podatak, istina nešto drugačiji od podataka koje konstantno čitamo iz pera Nemjee, nekih ljudi na ovom forumu, pa i prilagođenih vijesti Air Serbije. Nakon toga okrenete tu tezu i govorite kako netko uspoređuje DBV i BEG.
2. Potom izjavite da za DBV lete samo charter kompanije. Kada vas se demantira i ponovo posežete sa okretanjem teza i napadom o „smješnosti“ uspoređivanja DBV i BEG.
3. Opravdavate LF činjenicom da je DBV isključivo turistička destinacija, a Air Serbija ne dovozi turiste nego loklane i transfer putnike. Ako je tako, zašto je management Air Serbie pokretao tu liniju za koju nema putnika. Neprofesionalizam, loša procjena, gubitak novaca.
4. Isto tako opravdavate LF činjenicom da su dodatni letovi otvoreni u zadnji čas. Niti je baš bio zadnji čas, niti je to opravdanje. U tom slučaju ili ne otvarate let, ili ga otvorite kasnije nakon što se dobro isreklamirao i ostalo je „dovoljno“ vremena za prodaju. Konačno vaš management je rekao da je razlog povečanja frekvencija izvrsna prodaja. Ako je to tako gdje su putnici? Dakle i opet laž, neprofesionalizam, prepotencija managementa koja znači gubitak novaca.
5. Kada god je u avionu 25, 35 ili tako malo putnika izgovor je da je tu bio planiran ATR. I opet loše planiranje, neprilagođavanje reda letenja uvjetima i količini aviona u floti, loša i kvarljiva flota, avioni na održavanju ili preuređivanju, a što se znalo pa se nije trebalo uvoditi dodatne letove dok se nema racionalna flota. I opet loše planiranje, gubitak novaca.
No, jedno je sigurno. Air Serbia za DBV ima LF ispod 40% i gubi opake novce. Sve je više osobnih svjedočansava o izuzetno lošoj popunjenosti, oprečnih službenim informacijama. Pa je vrlo upitno kako će Air Serbia biti profitabilna do kraja godine.
I hate going in this kind of debate, but just two question - so the trolls are at least somewhat useful - what is LF on BEG-DBV, not just DBV-BEG? And, second question, on what Croatia flights was that LF?
Delete' 2. DBV does not have any „classical companies“ what is not true. That is trashing and not true at all.'
DeleteFind me anywhere where this was said. You should read more carefully before barking my friend. ;)
AnonymousJune 9, 2014 at 10:33 AM
DeleteАман, човече ко је рекао да за Дубровник лете само чартер компаније? Знаш ли ти читати? Написано је да углавном лете чартер компаније а да има свега пар компанија које су ту ради трансферних и локалних путнико. Компаније као Финер или Аерофлот су ту због туриста а оне као што је то Луфтханса, Остријан или Ер Сербија су због локалних путника као и због трансферних. Свака од њих из врло очигледних разлога.
Нико није ни једном написао то што ти тврдиш.
Између осталог не знам одакле ти информација да је Ер Сербијина попуњеност лоша. Просечна попуњеност кабине је скочила на 68% што је било објављено на интернету и што уопште није лоше, посебно ако се упореди са зимом када је била око 50% (што је опет овде објабљено).
То што је попуњеност слаба ка Дубровнику не значи да је свуда таква посебно када су јуче писали како сваки лет за Тиват иде са барем 140 путника.
Аман више...
vasingtonskver:
DeleteNe znam LF na BEG-DBV, samo na DBV-BEG.
Letovi Croatie su na liniji DBV-ZAG. I u nedjelju je LF na toj liniji bio preko 95%.
Gospodin koji piše na čirilici (nadam se da je google translator dobro preveo):
(ponavljam svoju rečenicu) "No, jedno je sigurno. Air Serbia za DBV ima LF ispod 40% i gubi opake novce. Sve je više osobnih svjedočansava o izuzetno lošoj popunjenosti, oprečnih službenim informacijama. Pa je vrlo upitno kako će Air Serbia biti profitabilna do kraja godine."
A ovo oko toga koje kompanije ne nude tranzite i kakve putnike imaju to je totalna glupost.
1. Tvrdite da je jedna od bitnijih strana Beograda njegov turizam koji je u procvatu. A sada ispada da to nije tako, te da je broj turista koji tolaze avionom zanemariv. Jer se to kod vas stavovi mjenjaju ovisno o tome što trebaju dokazivati?
2. Dubrovnik nisu samo turisti nego i brdo poslovnjaka i zaposlenika koji koriste ovo linije (netko treba te turiste i ishendlati). Konačno, tu su i migracijski putnici (kojih ima vrlo mnogo), dijaspora i gasterbajteri kojih ima još više. Reči da Aeroflot ili finnair nema tranzitnih putnika je u najmanju ruku nepoznavanje materije. Nemalo putnika iz ostalih aerodroma Rusije i ostatka bivšeg SSSR-a presjeda u Moskvi na liniju za Dubrovnik.
3. Konačno, tko brani Air Serbiji da dovozi silinu turista u Dubrovnik. Navodno masa Izraelaca, Čeha, Njemaca, Austrijanaca, Mađara, Poljaka, Rusa Skandinavaca.... putuje Air Serbijom kao tranzitnim putnicima. Svi oni su među najbrojnijim turistima u Dubrovniku. Pa upravo Air Serbia tu i vidi, navodno, svoju šansu. Gdje je zapelo baš u Dubrovniku sa strane "nebeske kompanije". Ili su možda podaci o super LF napuhani i neistiniti kao što smo prije neki mjesec imali prilike čuti od imenom i prezimenom potpisane osobe, i kao što svakodnevno čitamo od strane osobnih svjedočanstava.
Haters will hate, trolls will keep trolling, but enough. Comments should be made more clear.
Delete@ anonymous June 9, 2014 at 9:12 AM
"I guess this explains why there are so few scheduled airlines flying there."
70% of flights to DBV are scheduled. Maybe what you were saying is that these scheduled flights are seasonal. In that case, only OU and BA are not seasonal. You could of made that more clear.
@ Anonymous June 9, 2014 at 10:33 AM
Even if you wrote in Croatian, I will answer in English for all non SRB/CRO speakers on the blog.
In "vi" I sincerely hope you meant the trolls on this blog that ruin possitive conversations on a daily basis with hate.
These same trolls are also those who write half facts or no facts, with contradicting comments as you brought up in a very good post.
1. Верујем да управе Ер Сербије као и Етихада знају боље када тврде да до краја године фирма може бити на позитивној нули. Мени се чини да су њихове изјаве ипак меродавније од неких тамо 'osobnih svjedočansava'.
Delete2. Нико није споменуо београдски туризам нити број истих тих туриста који посећују српску престоницу авионом. Не знам одакле ти тај аргумент.
3. Свима је добро позната ситуација у Дубровнику током зиме када има јако мало путника. Да аеродром стварно има толико пословних људи као и чланова хрватске дијаспоре, као што тврдите, било би знатно више путника ван сезоне, као што је на пример случај са Загребом. Пошто Дубровник има толико путника колико има, можемо безбедно закључити да је главна врста путника она коју чине туристи који углавном долазе преко туристичких агенција које закупљују седишта на летовима које обављају што нискобуџетне а што класичне авио компаније.
4. Ер Сербија је нови играч на тржишту и њен досадашњи успех у Дубровнику је сасвим задовољавајући имајући у виду шта се све десило до сада и кроз шта је фирма морала проћи. А то што одређени људи причају да су летови Ер Сербије празни, те изјаве нису ништа више од малициозних трачева. Да су они нешто више од обичних трачева, не би Ер Сербија постала највећи авио превозник у простору бивше Југославије, што по броју понуђених седишта, што по самом броју путника. Но добро, никада није лако када је неко смакнут са првог места тако да разумем гнев одређених Хрвата и њихову потребу да шире дезинформације о конкуренцији.
Велики поздрав из крајње конкурентног Београда.
Gluposti. Niti je itko maknut sa prvog mjesta, nego se Air Serbia primakla Croatiji, niti je to nekom teško. O broju putnika po letovima informacije su kontradiktorne i vidljivo je da postoje svjedočanstva ljudi koji su imenom i prezimenom letjeli sa praznim avionim Air Serbije. Podaci za DBV su javni i to nitko ne može osporiti. I tu je popunjenost loša.
DeleteŠto se tiće dijaspore i migracijskih putnika, oni su jednako sezonski kao i turisti. Gasterbajteri i ostatak dijaspore dolaze u Hrvatsku (pa i Dubrovnik) za Božić, Uksrs i tijekom ljetnih godišnjih odmora. Naravno, da tada dolaze i turisti.
Ali bez obzira na to idikativno je kako ste preskočili slijedeći stav koji i jest poanta cijele ove debate:
„Konačno, tko brani Air Serbiji da dovozi silinu turista u Dubrovnik. Navodno masa Izraelaca, Čeha, Njemaca, Austrijanaca, Madjara, Poljaka, Rusa, Skandinavaca.... putuje Air Serbijom kao tranzitnim putnicima. Svi oni su među najbrojnijim turistima u Dubrovniku. Pa upravo Air Serbia tu i vidi, navodno, svoju šansu. Gdje je zapelo baš u Dubrovniku sa strane "nebeske kompanije".“
Purger, opusti se
DeleteYou people are so crazy, they have changed last min equipment from ATR to A319 or B733 so LF is 50% instead of 95%. Do you know how much my friend had paid one way ticket DBV-BEG last Thursday? Almost 19000 RSD. For two weeks it will be impossible to find empty seats on all flights to Dubrovnik, including those from Belgrade.
DeleteHmm... I remember flying on both Austrian Airlines and Lufthansa to Cyprus and we were maybe 50 passengers on their A321s. I guess if we are to follow the logic above, their overall loadfactor must be extremely low and they are probably bleeding money.
DeleteAs far as Air Serbia and its lf to Dubrovnik go, no biggie. If the loadfactor remains low the airline can always suspend the route and reallocate the Atr to another, more lucrative, destination. I don't see what's all this fuss about.
Er Serbija ima dobru popunjenost samo na letovima za Cirih, Moskvu, Pariz, London i pokoji nemacki grad. Ali polako, jos nema ni godinu dana kako ta kompanija postoji, a neke linije samo sto su uvedene. I mnoge velike kompanije nisu zadovoljavale LF pa su postale jake i ostale velike. Uostalom, razvojem privrede, turizma, ekonomije bice i vece popunjenosti sto poslovnim to i turistickim putnicima. Ne trcite pred rudu. Mozda je bas od 15. juna popunjenost kabine za DBV veca od 90%. Tek je pocetak juna, a jadransko more (hrvatski deo) je veoma poznat kao veoma hladan. Ja radije letujem na egejskom i jonskom moru upravo zbog visemesecne topline kako mora, tako i starig dobrih Grka. Prema tome, ima jos vremena za popunjenost ka Dubrovniku.. Polako samo..
DeleteЛетови ка Стокхолму, Копенхагену, Амстердаму, Бриселу као и Атини су редовно крцати. Попуњеност је негде око 85%.
DeleteEgejsko more toplo? Ma di?? Daj mi molim te reci da idem. :D
DeleteSolun je takođe uvek pun, nikada ispod 75%
DeleteBejrut je nova linija ali je za sada dobro, iznad 68%
Problem je što nam linije tipa Banja Luka, Abu Dabi dosta srozaju LF pa ljudi onda misle da je popunjenost na svim linijama loša.
Delete@anomymous 3:33
Deleteegejsko: tasos, samotraki, jonsko: zakintos, lefkada, itaka, kitira.. izvoli biraj :D
How can you even compare Croatia's LF to ZAG with Air Serbia's LF to BEG? Sounds already stupid enough for me. That's like comparing Ankara-Istanbul with Istanbul-Belgrade. Air Serbia is selling 2000$ tickets to Australia via Belgrade and plenty of them that Croatia isn't able to catch (LH preference, please) so don't worry about their yields. As to equipment that's another issue.
DeleteI'm sure the Dubrovnik route is so important in JU's network that Air Serbia can face bankruptcy if it do not performs well in the first weeks of the summer LOL.
How can you even compare Croatia's LF to ZAG with Air Serbia's LF to BEG? Sounds already stupid enough for me. That's like comparing Ankara-Istanbul with Ankara-Belgrade. Air Serbia is selling 2000$ tickets to Australia via Belgrade and plenty of them that Croatia isn't able to catch (LH preference, please) so don't worry about their yields. As to equipment that's another issue.
DeleteI'm sure the Dubrovnik route is so important in JU's network that Air Serbia can face bankruptcy if it do not performs well in the first weeks of the summer LOL.
SPU ...
DeleteOvdje se cesto izvrcu teze po potrebi zato se i slazem sa kolegom koji je pisao u 10:33 AM.
LF je bitan i to svi znamo ali je i bitno po kojem modelu kompanija operira te kakvi su joj troskovi i po kakvim cijenama puni avion
. Ja iskreno podrzavam razvoj svake male kompanije pa tako i JU ali ovdje stvarno prevrcete teze na svoj mlin .
Napisati kako su u DBV ili ja cu dodati i u SPU samo neke konpanije radi turizma a neke su radi transfernih putnika je teza na kojoj sam se dobro ismijao ... spominje kolega Finair i Aeroflot.
Tko to recimo turistu brani da doleti u SPU ili DBV sa JU ? ili LH? ili OS?
Tko to recimo brani da neki zemljak koji zivi u Svedskoj se ubaci u charter ?
Tko to recimo poslovnjaku iz Lyon-a brani da kupi kartu s AirMediterrane za Split ( Societe Generale Group vlasnici su Splitske banke iako je srediste u Zagrebu jedan od razloga zasto OU leti SPU-LYS )
Nisam znao da postoji agencija za zastitu avio kompanija pa me razvrstava jel putujem poslovno ili turisticki ?!
SVI SU U SPU I DBV RADI TURIZMA I NEZABORAVITE TO JE ISTO INDUSTRIJA,diaspora iz amerike ili njemacke je isto turizam, ja kad idem u posijet rodbini je isto turizam , je ima i poslovnih ljudi ( turizam , brodogradnja , AD-plastika ) ,pomoraca , inzinjera koji sve vise rade vani kao i pomorci na ugovore , ima i nesto svercera koji idu ugovarati uvoz cipela u brazil za svoje radnje hehheh i sl . ali vecina svih prevoznika je na jadranu zbog turisticke industrije .
Prema tome ovdje nema podijele na chartere ili LCC ili linijase jer svi grabe svoj dio kolaca , iznenadili bi se koliko ljudi poslovno leti u FCO sa U2 ili VY pa iz FCO dalje jer je Rim jako jeftina pocetna destinacija isto tako i za London pa cak i preko CPH za ameriku . Jasno pripadnost odredjenoj alliance je za neke prioritet , ali na letovima Aeroflota ce te naci i pomorce i inzinjere koji idu za Koreju ili na istok , kao i brdo individualnih putnika koji imaju kuce na Jadranu pa i poneku turisticku grupu.
Ukratko svi voze sve samo je pitanje koje se destinacije nude , pa cak i LCC nudi linijski promet.
Jos jedan podatak koji molim vas nemojte uzeti 100 % precizno jer sam mozda nesto i pogrijesio u brojenju pa cca 10% gore dole .
U srcu sezone od 314 tjednih letova 166 je LCC,124 su linijasi i samo 24 chartera na kojima nemogu kupi kartu , a na ostalima mogu i nezaboravite ako ne kupite kartu oko nove godine zaboravite LCC ispod 160 eur pa cak i 200 eur .( tu i tamo koji izuzetak ) a od ponude destinacija imam sve sto mi treba kao i vecini sugradjana .
Ja uvijek tupim da smo svi mi siromasni ljudi i na nas se ne racuna kad se otvaraju linije zato sam i zagovornik da OU leti zimi samo za ZAG uz domaci promet i tranzit ovih koji moraju i mogu putovati .LF i profit bi joj bio sigurno veci ( inace isto tako smatram da nije pljacke u OU da bi ona poslovala na pozitivnoj nuli ili iz mali profit sta bi bilo odlicno za malu kompaniju )
ah da za zimu iz SPU i DBV nema putnika da bi se opravdali letovi za BEG koliko god neki tupili o tome , jedino ako zelite gomilati minuse kao i OU za FRA,FCO ,MUC sa direktnim letovima . Dok se zimski turizam ne pokrene plus ostala ekonomija ( mislim na Split) jedino linija za ZAG ima profita po meni , jasno nisam strucnjak kao ni vi heheheh ;-)
U ovoj situaciji u kojoj se nalazi OU, mislim da i Split i Dubrovnik imaju potencijala da zimi imaju letove za Frankfurt, ali naravno, s Dashom. Slažem se da bi ostale letove (Munchen, Zurich, što već) trebalo odraditi preko Zagreba, ali da se tranzit odradi unutar 45min. Tako će mašine za Zagreb biti konstantno pune, bit će više rotacija i neće se morati subvencionirati troškovi za neprofitabilnije linije iz Splita i Dubrovnika prema inozemstvu. S druge strane, bit će veći i LF za linije koje kreću iz Zagreba. Zagreb stvarno treba ojačati kao državni hub. Ljeti je već druga spika... E da, svakako bih nekoliko zrakoplova OU zimi slao na južnu hemisferu, neka dolje nekome rade ljetni red. Bolje nego da skupljaju prašinu na stajanci.
Delete@ 5:58 PM
DeleteDaj nemoj samo ti o izvrtanju teza, molim te... Čekao si kao zapeta puška da odapneš senzacionalnu vest koja predstavlja najveći skandal ikada zabeležen u komercijalnoj avijaciji - Air Serbia ima nizak LF na liniji za DBV! Eto nama bombe dana, sad si sve razotrkrio i raskrinkao. I onda pišeš po 10km komentara pokušavajući da ubediš čitav svet kako danas nema veČe senzacije i veČeg otkriČa nego što je nizak LF u Air Serbia. Wow, Air Serbia ima nizak LF, dobro jutro Kolumbo... I šta je tvoja poenta, šta pokušavaš bilo kome dokazati? Da im je model neodrživ? Da će otiČi u bankrot? Da je sve jedna velika prevara? A to stoji nasuprot čemu? Održivim modelima starog Jata ili današnje OU koji nikada nisu srljali u bankrot i nikada nisu bili obična prevara? Sa kim se ti boksuješ čoveče? Avioni lete i neka lete, dok povezuju gradove dobro je jer ljudi mogu iČi kamo su naumili, i uštedeti nešto vremena a možda i novca... Zašto tebe toliko brine to što tu postoji nizak LF? Šta pokušavaš da dokažeš? Da Air Serbia počiva na dumpingu, pranju novca i veštačkom rastu, dočim premudra i nedodirljiva OU ima visok LF na čisto organskoj osnovi koju su osmislili najveČi mozgovi avijacije?
Pa OK, neka bude tako. Air Serbia je tigar od papira i pitanje je dana kada Če propasti. Ispred OU je svetla buduČnost, eto neka ti bude. Moje pitanje je jednostavno: KOGA BRIGA ZA TO? ŠTA SE NEKOG TIČE KO JE BIO PREVARANT A KO JE BIO GENIJALNI STRATEG? Danas u ponudi imamo to što imamo, stura Čemo imati nešto drugo, prekosutra nešto treČe. Avio prevoznici dolaze i odlaze, nastaju i propadaju. Samo tvoje LF propovedi ostaju. Jezusmarija kako smaraš.
Što znači smarati?
DeleteP.S.
Ovo je bio samo primjer sa Croatiom, jer ona kao smeče od kompanije, što i jest, inače ima vrlo mali LF. Ostale kompanije koje lete iz DBV imaju daleko bolju popunjenost. Pa čak i takva jadna Croatia ima preko 95% popunjenosti dok Air Serbia ne prelazi 50%. Sapienti sat!
To original poster about Load Factor: Your airline consulting insight is priceless. You should also work for Sir Richard Branson and tell him how to run an airline:
Deletehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/10882835/Virgins-Little-Red-flies-60pc-empty.html
SPU...
Delete@6:53 PM
A po cemu si ti to zakljucio da sam ja napisao pocetni post ko napeta puska ?
Ja se nadam da moderator zna da ja to nisam napisao uostalom vec sam par puta naglasio da se uvijek potpisem sa SPU , da mrzim internet anonimnost i da se zovem stipica ( a.net ,HZF ) i da sam arhitekt ali nisam pisao one komentare o MZLZ heheh Uvijek se na neki nacin prestavim.
Prema tome nemam ti sto odgovorit , samo sam htio naglasiti da se teze izvrcu :
- da se promet koji je u Hrvatskoj disperziran nemoze usporedjivati sa centraliziranim prometom ostalih exyu republika
- i posebno me nervira teza da je Jadran samo charter ko sto se ovdje cesto cita.
Konkurencija je tu velika i cijene su velike na moju veliku zalost hehhehe jasno samo preko sezone.
Ako JU pronadje sebe preko sezone odlicno,kao sto vidis dobrodosao je , koliko ja vidim nitko mu nije branio da poveca broj letova , da li ce moji sudrzavljani koristiti JU ili ne to nije ni bitno jer ionako svi avio prevoznici su tu radi bogatijih trzista iz koje dolaze ili prema kojim lete ,pa tako i OU.
al da ti iskreno kazem niti mislim da JU vodi svoju politiku vec radi sto mu EY naredi , niti mislim da je OU ikad bila samostalna , LH ! prema tome tu nevidim neke potrebe da zelim ni jednoj ni drugoj neki uspjeh ili neuspjeh , mislim da ce opstati dok god budu potrebne svojim predatorima.
Za prosudjivati dominaciju i uspjeh JU jos je prerano ali razumijem euforiju ponekih kolega pogotovo onih iz diaspore ;-)
@6:39 PM
Zasto ostaviti FRA i to jos sa Dash-om ? prije ostaviti FCO a sve ostalo sa Airbas-evima preko ZAG , a Dash-ovima otvoriti neke nove linije ili pojacati postojece gdje ima potrebe.
FCO bih ostavio u Splitu dvaput tjedno, dvaput tjedno Dubrovnik i ostatak direktno za Zagreb.
DeleteTi znači misliš da bi linija trebala biti SPU-ZAG-FRA i DBV-ZAG-FRA? Ne zvuči mi loše, ali ja sam amater (doduše, očito su i ovi u OU, haha)
Bravo, SPU!
Delete+1
JP still operates to IST. Are they planning to withdraw?
ReplyDeleteAdria's performance on this route has gone from ok to bad to worse... unfortunately.
DeleteNo. Adria will no withdraw IST. Night flight is good because you catch almost all morning TK fights from IST.
DeleteOU left IST. cause it was part of overall goal to cut routes that aren't most profitable, Turkish would never dare to do same shit it pulls in Belgrade.
DeleteThe EU ensures that OU on IST flights gets same treatment THY gets at Zagreb, once OU starts its IST flights again, it'll get slots it previously held, the alternative is that THY would be given worst possible slots at Zagreb, or worse that EU steps in and orders Turkish to behave if they wish to maintain open skies agreement and EU operations.
Adria is flying daily to IST.
ReplyDeleteNo, its not true, they fly to Istanbul NIGHTLY, not daily
DeleteIt implies the frequency, not the time of day you moron
DeleteAnd if you were trying to be funny. We already have too many of those people on this blog. See ya
Fully support the Serbian side on this one. It's kind of a win-win situation for Serbia:
ReplyDelete- if the Turkish side complies, JU gets to fly to IST
- if the Turkish side does not comply, JU (and other companies) take over traffic from TK that they've been funneling thru IST. This means higher load factors on some of JU's routes.
A no brainer.
And what happens if Turkey cancels all flights to serbia?
DeleteThen under the agreement, air serbia cannot fly any flights to Turkey.
Yeah, definatly a win - win
Of course it's win-win, and it's exactly the purpose of the game - to make it impossible for TK to fly Etihad's passengers. Air Serbia is not relevant in the story, but Etihad. I know spitting follows now, but it's all about that, in this particular case, and there will be more, don't worry
DeleteYeah but Air Serbia losses 7 weekly frequencies while Turkish carriers lose 24.
DeleteTurkish carriers stand to loose more due to their higher frequencies. IST is tight on slots, yes, but TK were given the same slots JU asked for, and TK went ahead to increase their BEG flights. I hope this gets resolved once and for all as this isnt the first time issues with licences between Serbia and Turkey have surfaced.
DeleteEach time Serbia threatened Turkey with something, it ended in TK increasing their frequency to BEG and JU doing worse and worse in Istanbul. No difference this time, so after this 'emergency meeting' I expect TK to go 21 weekly to BEG and JU to reduce to 5 or 4.
DeleteBtw, before they called for reciprocity they could start sending flyable aircraft to SAW so they don't have to cancel the flight and leave passengers 9 hours in the terminal before somebody competent showed up to arrange the hotel stay. This happened on 14 May.
Turkish did not squeezed Croatia Airlines from ZAG-IST route. Croatia Airlines had 7 flights and Turkish same number with excellent slots and in code-share. But as Croatia Airlines remove one A320 from fleet because of restructuration they cut some frequencies and even routes. ZAG-IST was logical cut because there they have code-share partner which had will to increase frequencies to 14 per week in code-share with CTN. On that way they did not lost route and not even frequencies.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry but I don't understand your logic. If the route was performing well then they would not have axed it during the restructuring process. Restructuring processes are there to remove loss making routes and keep the profit making ones.
DeleteIf they decided to leave this market it can only mean that the performance was not satisfactory enough. Since we are talking about Istanbul here and not some random, small market, it can only mean that Turkish Airlines defeated them and later on pushed them out... not to mention that they ended up increasing their own flights.
I am sorry but OU was squeezed out. They could have still found a way around to keep IST despite having one less aircraft in their fleet. The same way they did with the rest of their routes which are operated today.
Anonymous June 9, 2014 at 9:19 AM
DeleteSo if an airline maintains a codeshare on a particular route, and does not longer operate flights to a given city, it is not squeezed out?? That what happened to OU then? You could say it dominates IST route. Hahahah
What kind of logic is that?
Agreed with everything Nemjee said.
There was no logic at all in Croatia airlines restructuration and cutting after remove of A320. Only logic was to stay in same quantity on FRA, MUC, VIE, ZRH and BRU. IST route was doing more than good. It was one of the best LF, one of the best yields, and Turkish was "forced" to code-share and put nice number of their passengers on that route.
DeleteIf you remember there was war during winter 2012 when Croatian government force Turkish to cut frequencies to 4 weekly because of same thing Turkish try to make to Croatia Airlines (slots after midnight). After several months, Turkish gave Croatia 7 very good slots in IST and was forced to have code-share on CTN flights. Because of that ZAG-IST was more than good route for CTN.
On internet you can read hundreds of pages that one of most stupid move was suspension of IST route.
@anon 9:52
Deletefirst of all it doesn't make sense at all, cutting good and profitable destination but if you really are correct what does that say about OU, Croatia as a country, your relationship with EU, Germany, LH etc. I guess EU is not that good for small countries after all
@SMJune 9, 2014 at 2:24 PM
DeleteWho ever said Kucko was logical, he clearly uses his own logic, and no IST wasn't that profitable, it was a good route but due to management at OU things didn't pan out, OU still own the slots at IST and they will remain OUs assets for when ever OU returns on the same route.
Most profitable routes for OU are in western europe, in particular London, Paris, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Vienna and Munich. This is where 80% of OUs flights go and where OU makes good profits with good load factor.
Routes that didn't make good profits were sacked, including IST, which is really sad, but that being said OU can return to IST and return it will, perhaps as early as April next year.
Do you know what will become of their Pristina flights? It was mentioned on here that it's one of their weaker routes.
DeleteNo, all he knows is that Zagreb will be getting 8 bridges out of 12, cause he is an architect (my a**), you know.
DeleteZagreb getting flyDubai flights (3 times per week) to Dubai, so things starting to move on, slowly, but still in good direction...don't worry, air bridges will be busy :))
DeleteBy CTN management only profitable routes are FRA, ZRH, VIE, MUC (only LH hubs - sic!!!!), but CDG, LHR and AMS are not profitable. That is why they want to sell slots for CDG and LHR. So, one cannot believe in their information.
DeleteCroatia Airlines Fail
DeleteIf bilateral air agreement between Serbia and Turkey is only about number of flight, maybe they can increase capacity? TK can send A330 or B777 :) I know that doesn't make any sense, but it's nice to think about it.
ReplyDeletenot far from reality as TK often sends widebody aircraft bound to European cities
DeleteI doubt the GoS will get their way, by that i mean the exact time-slots they want, but they may succeed in getting back to IST.
ReplyDeleteAnyway the groundbreaking ceremony was held for the new airport in Istanbul and its capacity will eventually be 150 million so maybe air serbia will get their slots then. Just have to wait until October 2017 or at least thats what the Turks say, sounds at-least 12 months overambitious to me...
Quatar announced new connection Zagreb - Budapest via their Instagram account.
ReplyDeletehttp://instagram.com/p/pBE0NaGMOK/
No, it is about direct flight ZAG-DOH instead of one via BUD.
DeleteThanks for the correction. The link on their photo doesn't work so I just went with what seemed reasonable considering the put both Zagreb and Budapest on the photo :)
DeleteSo that means that BUD will not have flights to Doha on those selected days, when they fly directly to ZAG?
DeleteNo, there will be daily flights to both BUD and ZAG
Delete3x non stop DOH-ZAG and DOH-BUD
and 4x DOH-BUD-ZAG
You can read an article about it from two days ago http://exyuaviation.blogspot.com/2014/06/qatar-airways-goes-nonstop-to-zagreb.html
Delete1. The third logical option for JU-TK conflict would be shifting TK to INI until IST slots are granted.
ReplyDelete2. All it takes is one cloudy month in June to turn most of Croatian airports in to ghost-towns, unlike BEG.
3. There is no competition between BEG and ZAG nor between JU and OU. But if there was, we got a clear winner here.
4. @EXYU admin : На екстремној политичкој коректности би ти позавидели и Pescanik и B92. Одржавати ниво дискусија је једна ствар а брисати постове који не садрже ни једну једину увредљиву реч, већ смо интелигентну дозу сарказма, како би остао допадљив и хејтерској бригади је нешто сасвим друго.
Позз
I meni su brisani postovi bez ikakvog razloga, zato sada vise nista ne postujem iako sam u avijaciji kao profesionalac 35 godina
DeleteKaže vlada koja pozdravlja svoju bivšu srpsku koloniju Hrvatsku! Prestrašno!
Delete"На екстремној политичкој коректности би ти позавидели и Pescanik и B92. Одржавати ниво дискусија је једна ствар а брисати постове који не садрже ни једну једину увредљиву реч, већ смо интелигентну дозу сарказма, како би остао допадљив и хејтерској бригади је нешто сасвим друго."
DeleteFully agree, i'm also on the verge of not posting anymore due to the same reasons.
@Dusan
I was shocked when some of your comments were deleted few months ago and it quite disgusted me.
"1. The third logical option for JU-TK conflict would be shifting TK to INI until IST slots are granted."
DeleteFully agree with Kinderlada on that one as well, just as i mentioned few weeks ago, if JU is unable to obtain slots at Ataturk, TK should simply be moved to INI. Let them fly their three daily flights from there. I'm sure that with their "unmatched level of service" people will miss them and flock to Nis from Belgrade to fly with them and earn Wingo-miles, while in the same time the people from Nis will finally be happy to obtain an airline and not to be anymore "victims of segregation and discrimination" because of Belgrade.
A great deal in the making.
"1. The third logical option for JU-TK conflict would be shifting TK to INI until IST slots are granted."
DeletePlot twist! TK makes INI the biggest regional airport!
I think your sarcasm is nit nesesery. With amazing conections IST has I am sure TK will be able to fill 2 weekly from INI... And Im sure they will stard flying in the next couple years.
DeleteLet's get real. Even if they do start flying to INI, i doubt they'll stick there for a longer time. It's the competition. Nis is close to Sofia as well as growing Belgrade and Skopje airports. And there's also the centralization of Belgrade...
Deletefirst of all I love flying with TK, its my fav airline when flying from West Europe to Central Asia , Caucasus, bliski istok ..
ReplyDeleteI still dont have the answer to this:
1.How did AS lost their previous slots ??
2.Why only AS lost their slots and that didnt happen to other airlines ( its somewhat similar to when ONLY AS was concerned about safety issues in Kiev and Beirut )
I have a feeling that AS made some very small procedural ( perhaps stupid ) mistake and lost their original slots and are now fighting back with the help of The Serbian Civil Aviation Directorate.
also i dont see the logic behind "Sabiha - which offers fewer transit options for passengers" as if AS offers any connecting flights from IST ... even qatar started additional flights to SAW
corect me if im wrong ;)
JU wanted to increase the frequency to IST, the airport "did not have any free slots", so JU moves from IST completely.. Then JU decided to move to Sabiha, and get good slots there, thinking they will have a lot of transit pax. And they did, in the begining. Now with all those trafic jams in Istanbul, absence of business pax, but also as a way to stand up for your right for reciprocity (and I support it), they want to get back to IST.
DeleteThats the MISTAKE ! JU moving out of IST was their own decision ?? They shuld have styed at IST and use their additional flights at Sabiha , just like Qatar Airways is doing now.
DeleteI dont think we should blame the Turkish aithorities that much. Koji Autogol!
They had the same problem with Aegean who got slots at 04.30. In return the Greek government constantly refused to grant TK more flights to Thessaloniki. Since TK is adding these SKG flights I can only assume A3 got what they wanted.
DeleteIt's crazy how TK treats their fellow Star Alliance partners.
Kinderlada Brain is of course wrong again. If Serbia wants to do to TK the same Turkey did to JU, they should change their slots to something in the middle of the night. That would be reciprocal to what happened to JU in IST.
DeleteHowever, we all know that every time Serbia goes out there to teach Turkey a lesson, it ends with TK boosting their frequency in BEG and JU doing worse in Istanbul. And the same will happen now. Personally I expect the following outcome of the "emergency meeting":
- TK goes 21 weekly to BEG with best possible slots
- JU goes to 4 weekly in SAW with at least once cancellation per week (as on 14 May when they left passengers stuck in the terminal for 9 hours before somebody competent showed up and arranged the hotel)
- Kinderlada Brain keeps on dreaming about the great empire that will once heal his frustrations
+1!!!!!!!!!
Deleteand Kinderlada is women. Please check her avar. You will see that is women. Just have to look enough
Sorry but Air Serbia had slots at IST and they gave up on them because they thought they will do OK in SAW !
Deletenow few months later, they realised they made an EPIC mistake, and trying to get back in the game ... Jatovanje
TK and BA are only waiting for such amateurish airlines like Air Serbia to gave up theit slots at IST or LHR and start flights on their own
Lesson learned hopefully
and who the f... is kinder lada
I see it ending differently this time if it escalates all the way:
DeleteTurkish (passenger and cargo flights) to BEG go to 0 flights per week
Pegasus and all charter airlines from Turkey go to 0 x week
Air Serbia and Aviolet also down to 0 x week, but since Turkey has a lot more flights, they will lose a lot more.
Turkish flights start avoiding Serbia airspace, paying less in fees but also paying more for fuel. Other countries can now start charging higher fees as Turkey has no choice.
Thousands of tourists from Serbia are not able to spend tens of millions in Turkey, major loss for Turkey.
Exports from Turkey will suffer a major blow, another big loss for Turkey.
Passengers using Turkish for connecting flights will mostly switch to other ME airlines, big boost for Air Serbia and Etihad, another loss for Turkey.
It's clear the outcome will be different this time as Serbia has way more leverage.
Hahahaha, Anonymous 8:05 PM, are you serious? Yes, poor Turkey, losing against economic tiger, the Switzerland of the Balkan peninsula, Serbia!
DeleteLooks like you decided to ignore all the facts and shift to "who's got a bigger economy" topic. It's not about that, but the facts you ignored. Turkey is completely replaceable to Serbia and other partners are ready to jump in for tourism, trade and of course travel.
DeleteOf course, Serbia is so rich and well off, she can so easily afford trade wars with anyone.
DeleteJust relax and wait for the news from that faithful meeting. It will be very amusing.
Germany is rich an well off, and opposed poor Turkey from entering EU. Rich and well off Lufthansa started a "war" with TK. And yet Turkey stood for what they thought is right and despite pressure from rich and well off Germany grew it's economy and Turkish Airlines, and they should be praised for that. Nothing wrong when Serbia stands for the some of the same things, except this time Turkey is rich and well off.
DeleteAll fine, except that Turkey stood for what THEY thought was right and Serbia will stand for what ETIHAD thinks is right. Sovereignty at its best.
DeleteУмало заборавих поклон позадину за монитор... ;-)
Deletehttp://www.hkv.hr/images/stories/Slike05/Maksimir/38_1932_aerodrom_Borongaj_Zagreb.jpg
Great
check this out:
ReplyDeleteSkuplje karte Air Serbije za letove petkom i vikendom
http://www.aviokarta.net/vesti/2506-skuplje-karte-air-serbije-za-letove-petkom-i-vikendom/
I hope that actually means they are performing well on those days.
DeleteMora malo da se nadoknadi gubitak, sasvim logican potez.
Seriously, this aviokarta gets on my nervs. Imagine 10euro more expensive on weekends, so?! that is normal practise especially Friday/Sunday flights.
Delete...and imagine, they didn't announced it?! When you are buying ticket then you see the price, nobody knows the price before that because of this idiotic airline industry pricing standard.
totally crappy site, with very hidden agenda.
+1
DeleteBeware Ex-Yu doesn't delete your comment.
Iran air is refueling in Belgrade?
ReplyDeleteYes, it is. IR720 flights from Frankfurt, Airbus A300 mostly.
DeleteTheyve been refueling again in BEG for a while now. Not in the amount as before, but theyre back. I always love seeing their aircraft land in BEG flying over the buildings in New Belgrade :)
Deletehttp://www.aviokarta.net/vesti/2507-flydubai-povezuje-zagreb-i-sarajevo-sa-dubaijem/
ReplyDeleteFlydubai to zagreb and sarajevo
Opa, bravo komsije:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.aviokarta.net/vesti/2507-flydubai-povezuje-zagreb-i-sarajevo-sa-dubaijem/
Dubai-Sarajevo 2 puta ned B737-800 Dubai-Zagreb 3 puta ned B 737-800. Fly Dubai
ReplyDeleteTwo weekly would be just enough for Zagreb as well.
DeleteMogli su da povezu da bude Zagreb-Sarajevo-Dubai pa da bude 5 puta nedeljno umesto 2-3...
DeleteSounds like a good idea.
DeleteSPU ...
DeleteNije provokacija samo zelim da naglasim da je ovo jos jedan udarac za potencialni JU let za ZAG kao i direktni letovi za Dohu koji se uvode zbog FlyDubai-a . ok ja mislim da bi taj let bio opravdam i zbog konekcija prema jugoistoku Europe i Male Azije kao i zbog poslovnih ljudi i ponekih familijarnih posjeta
ah ti novi predatori stvarno su sveprisutni !
SPU.
DeleteMozes li da ponovis/pojasnis/obrazlozis, ja te stvarno ne razumem. Kako je let tri puta sedmicno udarac Er Srbijinom letu BEG-ZAG. Ne osipam nikakvu paljbu a da nisam pre toga razumeo post. :)
SPU...
Delete@6:52 PM
Pa tu sam se nacitao ljudi koji su izjavljivali da bi JU uz TK i QR bila jedna od opcija za veze prema Australiji i Aziji te ostalim destinacijama sa EY. Sada uz direktne letove prema Dohi i Dubai-u razmisljam da je to manje atraktivna opcija i to ce sigurno otezati prodaju karata tj. morat ce se ici na jeftinije cijene od konkurencije uz vise presijedanja a to za kompaniju nece biti dobro.
ok ja se sa tom tezom nikad nisam slagao da ce ljudi masovno preko BEG letiti za Aziju ili Australiju iz ZAG ( drugo je Jadran tamo mogu biti konkurentni), al JU na trzistu ZAG moze da nudi jugoistok Europe ,TLV,BEY. Jasno ovisno o cijenama. a poslovni i familijarni putnici bi bili podloga za LF.
Pored toga, JU Zagrebu može da ponudi i ATH, SKG, Primetio sam da dosta Hrvata dolazi u Beograd da leti za Atinu.
DeleteI think the arrival of flyDubai in ZAG is fantastic and that the ZAG-DXB route is long overdue. I am sure it will be successful.
DeleteAs for SJJ, I think the main problem will be TK who will offer ALOT of competition to flyDubai. As well, JU/EY are the only other realistic options to the UAE from SJJ as the other airlines dont offer good connections, but JU is MUCH more expensive to the UAE compared to TK. I will be surprised to see SJJ being launched let alone succeeding.
Zašto bi netko odlazio za BEG ili letio via BEG za TLV ili ATH ako ima direktne letove za obije destinacije iz ZAG (TLV Croatia i El Al, ATH Croatia, uskoro i Aegean).
DeleteThis sick obsession with loadfactors is more than strange to me. It was important some 20-30 years ago, when all passengers on all airlines were subject to the same airfare. Today, a full Ryanair flight(LF some 100%) and a LH flight with fully occupied business class(LF say some 10-20%) earn the same amount of money. So, in general, its the specific yield and yield management that should be observed for the purpose of obtaining decent results in airline business.
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteAnd why so many people don't understand this is beyond me
Deleteyes but in same time JU has 50% LF with price of 90 EUR for return tickets as usual practice. Yield?
DeleteIt is interesting to read the hysteria that Air Serbia generates on this blog ... When they sell at EUR90, it is too cheap and they will go broke. When they implement a weekend surcharge of EUR10, they are ripping people off - awesome .... Still, if I was JU, I would be more than happy with how much publicity and discussion they generate on this and other blogs - stuff that money simply cannot buy. No one single airline generates this amount of discussion than they do .... Their PR people must be pissing their pants with glee around how much publicity their arrival has generated and the naysayers are simply feeding into this publicity ....
DeleteWhy are Charter flights between Serbia and Turkey unaffected by this disagreement?
ReplyDeleteu charteru se okreće mnogo veća lova, load factor je uvek iznad 90% a cene karata više nego što bi bile za redovne letove.
DeleteBas zato i pitam. Kad bi se carteri ukljucili u pregovore, Turska bi kroz avio i turisticku industriju izgubila desetine miliona evra. Menja odnose u pregovorima zar ne?
DeleteCargo flights aren't included either (weekly A330F to Belgrade).
DeleteCharter flights were a few years ago a problem when the Turks threatened to ban JAT from flying charter flights to Turkish airports when the government denied Turkish carriers licences to operate charter flights to Serbia. This is when airlines like Onur Air began operating charters to BEG.
DeleteWhat happened with this news, published here 8 days ago: "The Persian Gulf’s largest construction company, Arabtec Holding, will hold talks with the Serbian government next week to discuss a possible concession of Belgrade Nikola Tesla Airport".
ReplyDeleteThat was supposed to be last week. Did it happen?
The deal will be made in autumn. I believe we will not have details before September. Again it will be done without tender
DeleteThis is just ridiculous. One has, as many have pointed out, to remember that it was JU who wanted to switch to Sabiha instead of Ataturk, believing that that would attract more passengers. Now though Kondic has been propagated as an aviation industry virtuoso, it is remarkable that he approved of such a strategy, as it perfectly clear to everyone that IST is much more of a suitable transfer airport than Sabiha..Anyway, I hope that JU will get back their slots at IST, as the few flights I have flown with them have been a good experience, though they can obviously not be compared to TK in any way, the latter being miles ahead in every sense.
ReplyDeleteIn every sense, are you sure of what you're talking about?
Delete100% agree. Miles ahead in every sense!!!!!
DeleteTK*G .... I love your supposed intellect ... I sure hope that you are wearing your baby's bib bcoz you are talking shit and spilling it all over your shirt .... I can only imagine what a sight that must be ... As much as you try to speak as an authority on this subject, alas, you have managed to show the world what an ignoramus you really are. Sweeping statements such as " one has to remember that it was JU who wanted to switch to Sabia...." is without foundation. A lie told a thousand times doesn't become a fact - it is a lie no matter how many times it is stated. For the record, I can tell you for a FACT - as I was involved in the discussions - that the Turkish authorities did NOT give JU the slots that it sought in order for it to build its network concept. They offered slots at 3am in the morning, just so they could tick the box and say, "there you go, we provided you with slots". 3am timing is simply not commercially viable. Faced with the prospect of making a decision to fly or not fly to Istanbul, the Govt asked us to operate out of Sabia Gokcen in the hope that we could make it work and if we couldn't, then we could go back and seek a remedy by invoking the principal of reciprocity that exists in the bilateral. In doing so, no one could then not accuse us of not trying to make it work - which clearly, despite our best efforts, we have not been able to do. Meanwhile, TK has been plundering the Serbian market with choice timings from BEG airport and have in the process, amassed significant volumes of beyond traffic from IST - numbering almost 70% of all traffic carried out of BEG. For your information Einstein, bilateral traffic rights negotiated between countries, are there to primarily serve 3/4th freedom traffic ie. point to point, meaning BEG-IST and vice versa. The fact that 70% of their traffic carried from BEG is 5/6th freedom ie. beyond IST, means that they are in breach of the existing Air Service Agreement that governs air traffic between Serbia and Turkey. This is NOT JU's agreement, nor is it TK's. It is Govt to Govt. Now, if the govt's of both countries want to allow a higher proportion of this 5/6th freedom traffic, then that is a matter for the govts of both countries to renegotiate. However, until they do so, then the current agreement is clear and explicitly states that reciprocity must prevail. The fact that JU did not previously seek this is irrelevant. They were not in a position to do so bcoz they didn't have the means ... now they do and they are seeking what the existing agreement provides for. If JU does not get wht the current agreement provides for, then the Turks are clearly in breach and JU has every right to seek what it is entitled to - no more and no less. You might not like hearing this, but these are the facts. So pls don't propagate your own B.S. .... On another matter, TK is continuing to breach the current approval they have to operate until Jun 30, as they continue to sell tkts for travel beyond Jul 1 without disclosing this to their passengers, when their operating license is only in place until Jun 30. They continue to piss all over the sovereignty of Serbia and whatever you may think of JU, this says everything about how the Turks view Serbia
DeleteLet me see if I understand this... You say the government of Serbia previously did not have the means to fight for reciprocity, but now they have. The only thing that happened in the meantime in Serbia is Etihad. So the government of Serbia is now threatening to open a trade war against Turkey so that business interests of Etihad are protected? This is what the government of a sovereign country is? A barking dog for a corporation from another country?
DeleteWell, the results of this flaw will directly match the credibility of such government...
Anonymous at 9.25: For all we know, you are an unemployed 40 year-old living in your mother's apartment, so I'll abstain from making personal attacks, which you seem to resort to without hesitation- this probably because of your lackluster arguments. With regard to your comment on how the government of Serbia now out of the blue has such resolve in this issue, I cannot but agree with what the Anonymous at 9.31 wrote, as it is inevitable that Turkey will come out of this battle victorious, and though we may not like it, continue to piss on the "sovereignity"(I really laughed when reading this word..) of Serbia. It is politics and big money involved, and the rule of the more influential always prevails in such battles, something which you appear to have not given a thought, perhaps understandable considering how narrow-minded you appear to be, taking everything Serbia's incredibly charming PM and JU's CEO, who is more often to be seen in the biz lounge at BEG doing nothing but browsing his phone while picking his teeth than in his office, to be truthful.
DeleteYou seem to have a good grasp of English, so I'm somewhat surprised that you don't understand the meaning of reciprocity ? Let me try in a way that you will hopefully understand - if I want one, then you get 1 .. if I want 2, then you get 2 ... and so on ... does that help ?? the Turks currently have 21 into our main airport and Serbs have 7 into their secondary airport ... this is not 1 = 1 or 2 =2 and so on ... it's got nothing to do with Etihad or anyone else. We now have a national carrier with aircraft and the means to seek reciprocity ... this is what every single country seeks in it's trade agreements ... that is the single principal which underpins ALL international trade agreements ... I give something and then I get something in return .... why is that such a difficult concept for you to grasp ? Serbia should get what it gives and if the Turks refuse, then it is the Turks who are escalating this, not Serbia ... Serbia is no different to the EU, the USA (who refuse to entertain Serbia's request for codeshare, despite United airlines codesharing into Serbia with LH) or Canada - all of whom guard their home markets through bilateral agreements that protect their home carriers ... You fail to understand the essence of the entire issue regarding bilateral rights and what they prescribe and allow. if you are going to sign up to these agreements, then you have to be prepared that someone will hold you to it ... The only flaw here, is your lack of understanding as to what purpose Air Service Agreements serve.
DeleteAnonymousJune 9, 2014 at 9:31 PM,
DeleteSo you think that GoS is going through all this trouble with Turkey just for the sake of Etihad and Abu Dhabi?
In case you have not noticed, GoS is a major stakeholder in JU, and they absolutely want JU to succeed because of economic, political, and national interests. This is the motivation for the GoS to step up to Turkey.
What is good for Air Serbia is also good for Eithad and vice-versa (Unlike the cooperation between LH and OU).
TK*G - how do you know that it was JU who wanted to switch to Sabia Gokcen ? My friend in JU told me exactly what the earlier post noted - that it was TK who forced them out of Ataturk ... This seems to be the entire basis to your argument ...
DeleteHe's a Trojan horse ... a remnant of the Ottoman's now fighting their cause frm within ....
DeleteGoS was the sole stakeholder of Jat and yet they never bothered to fight for its reciprocity with TK. Now, all of a sudden, they start fighting like crazy after Etihad took its 49%. One has to be seriously naive to think it is because "Jat was not a proper airline and Air Serbia is a proper airline". No, it is simply because Serbia is a state that does not even deserve to be called a banana.
DeleteAll I can say is wait until 1 July. It will be hilarious. Even if Turkey agrees to provide JU with decent slots in IST, we will still have to pray their flights do not get cancelled and people abandoned at the airport without any information. When they manage to bring their service, punctuality and reliability to 50% of TK's I may think of supporting their right to reciprocity.
@ Aleksandar
DeleteThe GoS was 100% owner of JAT yet never wanted JAT to succeed because of economic, political and national interest, given the proof of the failure to maintain it with a fleet of aircraft that can actually fly, to begin with.
But what is good for EY is good for JU as you say. Any profit of JU is 49% to EY.
As for the above, TK started BEG several years ago with just 3 or 4 flights p/w at a time when JAT flew 6 p/w. TK grew to daily, then more, but this was all allowed. And even with this issue of reciprocity, this should of been addressed at the 7 p/w schedule of TK. Even still, a couple of months ago TK began a 3rd daily to BEG. Why didnt the GoS intervene then and denied TK the 3rd daily?
yes, what a cretin that CEO is ... sitting in the lounge and browsing his phone .. same as all the other people who sit in the lounge waiting for their flight - how dare he ! We should also make sure they remove all the food and the toothpicks that they provide to help people with their dental hygiene after a meal... What were they thinking !
DeleteAnonymous at 10.15pm ... since TK is such a stellar airline as you say that it is, then there should be no problem of passengers being abandoned on Jul 1, since they will do everything to accommodate their passengers when they get grounded ... However, the fact that they are yet to inform their passengers of this eventuality, pretty much says they have a care factor of zero.
DeleteJATBEGMEL,
DeleteGoS never protected JAT because JAT was never on the spotlight such as Air Serbia is today. JAT never had any thing to protect anyway. No amount of protection would ever have made JAT a big, strong company. Air Serbia on the other hand has a lot of potential. The GoS at least can recognize that.
No point in trying to make this point with Suleiman The Great, since he is a proxy for Turkish interests ....
DeleteOr perhaps they already know they will keep on flying perfectly normally and nothing will change?
DeleteJATBEGMEL ... your question as to why the GoS didn't prevent TK's 3rd service is a good one, but rhetorical nonetheless. You could also ask why only now are all these people being arrested for wrongdoings across so many companies and sectors ?? Weak accountability and even worse people in key positions - that's why. Your question is best asked of the Civil Aviation Directorate, the Ministry of Transport and the Airport, who allowed this to happen in the first instance. Perhaps we will start seeing some arrests here ... I hear that the CEO of the airport is first cab off the rank ... hopefully more will follow ... Etihad's investment is welcome because it is driving accountability across the entire aviation sector for the first time - about bloody time !!
DeleteAnonymous at 10.33p - maybe the Turks think nothing will come of it and perhaps you are right. HOWEVER, they are legally obliged to advise their passengers and this they are certainly not doing
DeleteJAT always stays JAT!
ReplyDeleteThis, of course is just another jatovanje / jatisanje.
definitely! their own fault anyway
DeleteTK treba zabraniti da leti za Srbiju.
ReplyDeleteJU ne treba da leti za IST.
Etihad bi onda mogao da leti sa A333 ,A346 ili B77W.
Svi bi leteli preko AUH a ne preko IST :)
Zašto se tu zaustaviti?
DeleteZabraniti LH grupi i AZ da lete za Srbiju.
JU ne treba da leti za LHR, CDG, ZRH, FRA i AMS.
Etihad bi onda mogao da na svim tim letovima napravi međusletanje na BEG i pokupi putnike, sve naravno sa widebody metalom.
Na kraju bi Etihad poslao A380 na severnoameričke rute sa međusletanjem na BEG.
Treba pronaći način i da se onaj Aeroflot izbaci sa BEG, može u Moskvu da se leti preko AUH.
Gospodine Dr ja pricam samo o TK.
DeleteThe fighting on this blog is really obnoxious!
ReplyDeleteOf course Turkish Airlines would get hurt most if they would engage in a trade war with Air Serbia.
The airline with the most share in pax would also loose the most.
Its really about time to negotiate a new bilateral between both countries,one that discriminates no party!
TK could give to JU a daily flight from Atatürk airport and switch one of theirs to SAW .
They already fly SAW - Sarajevo.
The other airlines should also get better chances -
Pegasus for example gets kicked by both sides and gets treated worst.
They finally should get the chance to go daily.
a good proposal would be :
JU daily to IST
TK 2xdaily to IST
TK daily to SAW
PC daily to SAW
Actually Turkish has nearly nothing to lose here. Their flights to BEG are not even 0.5% of their daily departures. To them, Belgrade is barely a blip on the radar. Turkish is only messing with JU to send a message to Etihad.
DeleteTurkish is a big carrier with much bigger concerns than losing BEG as a destination. To them BEG is peanuts.
What are you talking about ? How is 4 times daily for Turkish carriers vs 1 daily flight for Serbian carriers a good proposal ? For Turks maybe, but not for Serbian carriers ... they need to respect the current bilateral which says reciprocity ...1 daily for the serbs and 1 daily for the turks
Delete