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| EX-YU airlines enforcing "rule of two" |
Air Serbia and Adria Airways have implemented the “rule of two” several years ago, which requires for two crew members to be present on the flight deck at any given time during the flight, while Croatia Airlines introduced the new rules yesterday. Airlines across the world have ushered in the policy after it emerged the co-pilot of Germanwings flight 9525, who was at the controls on his own, had apparently locked himself in the cockpit before crashing the plane into the mountains below on Tuesday, claiming the lives of all 150 on board. Croatia Airlines, Norwegian Air Shuttle, major German airlines including Lufthansa and Air Berlin, easyJet, Monarch Airlines, Virgin and Thomas Cook have all confirmed they are changing their safety policies. However, Air Serbia and Adria Airways have had this rule in place for several years.
In a statement, Air Serbia said, “We have implemented the procedure where at least two crew members must be in the cockpit at any given time, including a member of the cabin crew if the captain or co-pilot leaves the flight deck, more than two years ago. This procedure was approved by the Civil Aviation Directorate and is strictly adhered to and regularly communicated to the crew during pre-flight briefings”. Sandi Slodej, Adria Airways’ Head of Training, says the rule has been enforced by the Slovenian carrier for several years. “These instructions are written in our flight manuals”, Mr. Slodej said.
However, Croatia Airlines introduced the new policy only yesterday. In a statement, it said, “Croatia Airlines will today begin enforcing the operational procedure where two members of the crew must be at the flight deck at all times”. The Croatian Minister for Sea, Transport and Infrastructure, Siniša Hajdaš Dončić, commented on the Germanwings tragedy yesterday by saying, “Croatia Airlines is not a low cost airline and is one of the safest airlines in the world. Something like this simply couldn’t happen at Croatia Airlines”. The carrier’s pilots have recently criticised the company’s Pay to Fly scheme, introduced last year, which is enforced mainly by low cost airlines. Novice pilots who already have a basic licence must pay some 30.000 euros to achieve the "type rating" qualification needed to fly particular aircraft. Previously, pilots would first be hired by the airline before they underwent training. The controversial measure is allowed in most European countries but banned in the United States. However, the measure does not impact on passenger safety in any way.
In wake of the Germanwings disaster, the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) said in future two crew members should be present in the cockpit at all times.
A real tragedy. It's good to know that most of our airlines are ahead of the pack in some respects.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the photo; This beautiful pilot is from Adria :)
Do all ex-Yu airlines now have female pilots?
DeleteAdria, Air Serbia and Croatia Airlines do. Montenegro and BH don't.
DeleteBila je u Montenegru Vesna Bućan, sada je u Wizz-u.
DeleteAlja Berčič on the photo :))
DeleteIs she a daughter of Maks Bercic, one of the Adria best pilots on Airbus?
DeleteYes she is
DeleteShe started in the military and then came to Adria.
DeleteI hope she will be at least good as her father is. The guy is real pro. I flew many times with adria airbus when he was piloting.
DeleteI know it's not related to safety in general but Pay 2 Fly is such a stupid system. I can't believe they actually introduced it.
ReplyDeleteIt's only a thing because pilots allow it. If no pilot was willing to pay for something that most reputable airlines pay for you, then the LCCs and other various bottom feeders wouldn't be able to get away with it.
DeleteWould be nice to get your perspective on this whole incident Aleksandar. If I got it right you are a pilot?
DeleteNot an airline pilot, just a student pilot.
DeleteOnly thing I have to say is this, if there really is some kind of conspiracy cover up about what really happened, then how did they organize it so quickly and what incentive does the French BEA, German BFU, and American FBI have with protecting Airbus?
Thanks. And what about this 'rule of two'. Can it actually stoop these kinds of tragedies?
DeleteFrom previous incidents (particularly LAM flight 470), it seems like the perpetrator waits until the other pilot leaves him in the cockpit alone. Ethiopian Airlines flight 702 was hijacked by the copilot not too long ago, and that happened also after the other pilot left the hijacking pilot alone.
DeleteRight now I am wondering if armored and locking cockpit doors are even worth it.
Turkish Flight 1951 is another example. After is crashed, rescuers couldn't reach the pilots through the armored door. They had to cut through the roof of the plane, and they were dead by the time they reached them, but apparently at least one wasn't dead a little earlier.
Perhaps disable the function where the pilot can override the person entering the code to enter, and perhaps make the doors unlock automatically if the plane sustains 3 times the force of gravity?
Aleksandar of course the armored cockpit is worth it as long as there is always 2 crew inside. There will always be more crazy passengers (plain mental), terrorists ( I am referring here to anybody politically or religiously motivated) than unstable or suicidal pilots. So 2 crew+armored doors is a win win situation. Of course there is evidence after this and probably MH370 that armored cockpit is not such a great thing but with the introduction of 2 crew policy it will be ok. Has there been a single pax/terrorist/psycho who hijacked a plane or attempted to do it since 9/11. Terrorists gave up on planes and the number 1 reason is that they cant get into the cockpit due to those doors As a pilot how would you feel safer?
DeleteI am not sure that terrorists gave up on airplanes because of this rule ... Simple example, this night I was on 6 hour flight and during that time first officer had to go to toilette 3-4 times...it was very easy to predict when he will come back to the cockpit... If you would sit in business class, you can wait for FO to knock on the door + 15 more seconds then jump, pull him and get inside...
DeleteReally does not look as bigger issue ... now if you take that in 5-10 hour flights they need to get out at least once ... it is not that hard to plan.
so what is your proposal/solution Pera Kojot? Put back the "toilet door" instead of the armored ones? Maybe my statement was a bit vague and yes with a good plan they for sure could get into the cockpit but generally speaking its better to have armored doors since there are no disadvantages now with the 2 crew policy.
DeleteMy point is that these armored doors didn't made any difference in having less hijacking, because you can pass those door with planning. Of course, we all assume that serious hijackers would do some planning. :)
DeleteIn case of doors they overdid it, and now they should relax it a bit ...so you should be able to open the door with master code.
What a disturbing and selfish accident but I still don't get how anything could have changed if say a stewardess was in the cockpit at the time. I highly doubt she would be able to stop his crazy intentions.
ReplyDeleteHer first priority would've been unlocking the door for the pilot rather than trying to stop the co-pilot.
DeleteThen he would have just put the aircraft in a nose dive or deep stall and would achieve this before the FA (he or she) with no flying experience would know what was happening.
DeleteFor me this is mass murder, very similar to the public shootings we see from time to time. Very sad, and thankfully very uncommon but if a flight deck member decides to take this path, which has happened before, the offender being either alone in the cockpit or with the other pilot would have the overwhelming advantage to commit such an act.
Personally I hope there is no major knee jerk reaction to this and in procedures need to be changed re the locked door which in my opinion is an important safety feature or anything else, then I hope it comes after proper analyst and investigations. Remember, just last week someone was trying to force himself into the cockpit of a domestic US flight before being over powered by passengers and crew.
In saying that I honestly would have expected the 2 crew rule to be standard procedure in all airlines around the world especially the airlines from the west and I am surprised Croatia Airlines did not have that rule. A flight attendant being in the cockpit if one of the pilots has to leave is standard procedure in Australia. The thinking here was as a precaution in case the flying pilot became ill or incapacitated that the FA could then inform the other pilot. I don't think the rule was ever intended to prevent a suicide attempt but as Aleksandar pointed out whenever an incident like this occurred, the suicidal pilot waited until he was alone. Except for the Egypt Air incident where it looked like both pilots were in the cockpit and fighting over the controls. One pilot was pushing down while the other was trying to pull up. Guess who one that one.
It is physiological moment here... in these few cases question is would they even start the action if someone is watching them, talking to them ... in these cases these people are left alone with their ghosts and then things started to happen...
DeleteAt the end of the day ... of course, crazy is crazy and unpredictable.
At least Serbs and Croats have one thing in common. Their media is in overdrive with conspiracy theories.
ReplyDeleteA national sport for both.
DeleteI simply cannot believe how insensitive and stupid comments are made by high business or government officials in this region: “Croatia Airlines is not a low cost airline and is one of the safest airlines in the world. Something like this simply couldn’t happen at Croatia Airlines”. Using a tragedy for self-promotion, like Serbia's PM - if you don't know how to put it, just shut up - it is insulting towards those who died and their families. Underlying text, maybe not intentional, of this statement is "they wanted to pay cheaper fare, thus they took the risk", and given that Croatia did not have a practice of two crew members, it "simply" could have happened. There were million better ways to say this, communicate that Croatia Airlines is safe to travel with, and be respectful of those who died, their families, and those who work in and travel with lowcost airlines.
ReplyDelete+1. I couldn't believe what he said. Checked a few other sources and that is exactly what he said :S how insensitive and dumb.
Delete+1
DeleteHe really is a prick
DeleteIt was a very stupid comment I have to agree and I am really not sure what he was trying to say which is common when non aviation people try to comment on matters concerning aviation.
DeleteIt was a very stupid comment I have to agree and I am really not sure what he was trying to say which is common when non aviation people try to comment on matters concerning aviation.
DeleteIt is not a matter of aviation or non aviation people, it is just senibility. Grozna izjava.
DeleteDa li moze neko da postuje link sa tom famoznom izjavom, čisto da upotpunim kolekciju nonsensa, hvala.
Deletenema vise 320ce za cdg, vidim da asl sve cesce koristi sad a320 za lhr i mxp. mxp mi je jasan jer nema vise izija, i to je super, ali jel povecan broj putnika za lhr ili je u pitanju cist nedostatak letilica? thx
ReplyDeleteMislim da su sve Airbus letelice sada u upotrebi tako da ne verujem da je nedostatak.
DeleteLHR je prepun poslednjih dana. 144-8 LHR-BEG danas ili juce, nisam tacno siguran...
DeleteAir Serbia should have done the right thing and acknowledged that Jat Airways existed before them and that this rule has been in force at Jat for over 10, yes TEN years! The rule was in place before the holy Etihad even existed! But then their team brought the "know how" to Serbia because we are all baboons before they showed up and they taught us everything and anything.
ReplyDelete+1000
DeleteNije nego....
DeleteJAT je toliko sjajan bio da si mogao i da se vozas u kokpitu samo ako nekog poznajes.
Patriote moje drage :)
And please people and I am very aware that this is very difficult in this day and age with the amount of stupidity around, just ignore conspiracy theories. These theories are always started by people with very little or no knowledge of what they are talking about and are always non factual and baseless.
ReplyDeleteI had no idea that there are already conspiracy theories and I am actually surprised that I was surprised to here this.
And please people and I am very aware that this is very difficult in this day and age with the amount of stupidity around, just ignore conspiracy theories. These theories are always started by people with very little or no knowledge of what they are talking about and are always non factual and baseless.
ReplyDeleteI had no idea that there are already conspiracy theories and I am actually surprised that I was surprised to here this.
Rolls-Royce monitors engine performance in mid-air. Would it be possible to have such monitoring system for planes.
ReplyDeleteIf a plane deviates from its route it should activate alarms and perhaps even override the pilots.
Someone correct me here, but I believe that most planes these days can pretty much land on their own.
my2cents
There are already systems in place both on the aircraft to alert the pilots and on the ground to alert air traffic control if either a plane deviates off course or if there is a collision risk with either terrain or another aircraft.
DeletePretty much all airliners which were made form the 1970's onward have auto land capability but it requires an Cat IIIb ILS or instrument landing system or better to be installed on the runway being used for landing to be used legally. Auto landing are actually common in Europe and North America in near zero visibility environments.
When you move into the realm of aircraft overriding pilots then you risk unwanted outside interventions by hackers for example taking over an aircraft from the ground with little to nothing the flying crew could do to prevent this.
I agree there is a hack risk, after all, drones have been hacked. But if a pilot is not responding to ground control for whatever reason, then the question is if everything has been done to protect passengers.Technology, as you say, has been around for years.
DeleteI'm afraid that '2 persons in the cockpit' policy doesn't give much assurance. Female flight attendant who weighs 50kg has no chance against male pilot of 80kg.
Security is always in question, however there are plenty of ways to secure communication and ensure that only right people have right access.
DeleteIt is immanent that this change will come soon, very soon ... lives of hundreds of people should not depend only on two people if they do not have to.
Hijacking might become even less attractive if air traffic control or airline can take over control over airplane when needed.
Pera, then hijacking of air traffic control will become more attractive. You could look at it both ways :P
DeleteLets do this again.
DeleteAIRLINERS DONT LAND BY THEM SELFS!
Those two guys in first row with best view guide it.
EVERY auto land is monitored, cross checked and aborted if unsafe. And it happens!
CA in cockpit is a good thing. She is an psychological element which can change persons mind. There is no physical things involved, but this is just our mentality. Hit the bastard between the eyes and kill him if you have a chance.
I never said that Captain and FO are not needed in cockpit of the airplane. Of course that when you seat in a front row shaking with a plane, listen to the plane, having appropriate knowledge... you have all elements to make much better decisions then computer or someone sitting miles away.
DeleteHowever, we are talking here about incidents, about extreme situations when extreme measures are needed.
There has to be more then two people involved in ensuring landing (if it is about human factor).
On hijacking of ATC... we already established in post above that if you want to hijack airplane you can do it even today... Question is only "What's the point?".
As soon as right motives are found there will be new hijacking. :)
Still I think that proper protection is possible to be ensured, even for ATC.
@ Anonymous 0829
Delete"AIRLINERS DONT LAND BY THEM SELFS!
Those two guys in first row with best view guide it."
Yes today the pilots are required to set the aircraft up for any landing including an auto landing but that does not mean it can't be done remotely from the ground. We see this with the expanded use of drones.
Can somebody quickly and simply explain to me what are the options to becoming a pilot in Canada, other than air force since my vision is not good. As of now I am doing 1st year bachelor of science in university (not college) and am wondering if it is even worth finishing it if I want to go into a separate field. Even if the Uni is not necessary would I be given any advantages?
ReplyDeleteThanks!
Yes. I am from Canada, but studying in USA because the costs of learning to fly in Canada are extreme. If you are wise and hard working, you can learn to fly in America for comparatively low money compared to any were else in the world.
DeleteUnfortunately, there is really no quick and simple explanation, you should really meet some people who have gone through it.
Your first step is to get a first class medical. Don't waste any money until you know for sure that you are fit to fly in the airlines. You must get an aviation medical at an AME (aviation medical examiner). In USA, it costs about $100, but some medical insurance policies may actually cover them. Not sure how much it costs in Canada.
I don't know what are all the training options in Canada best, but in America there are two broad categories: Part 61 and Part 141, which you can learn about more in the FAA Federal Aeronautical Regulations publication, which is either accessible on the FAA website for free, or you can purchase a print copy of the FAR and the Aeronautical Information Manual in one handy book, called the FAR/AIM. If you ever train or fly in America, this will be your best friend. You will need to know this book cover to cover basically. A pretty thick book, but don't let it scare you.
So yeah, sorry I don't have a lot of experience flying in Canada. If you want to get your training in better weather, more complicated airspace, and for a LOT less money, consider doing your training in America.
Apparently you need a diploma to fly for Air Canada. In America, you can't get much further than the regionals without a diploma. If you have good grants and scholarships in your current uni, I would stay there. If you are spending more than a couple thousand per year, it is best to switch to a program or school that doesn't cost as much. Airlines don't care what diploma you hold. The people who do the hiring just want to see that you finished some school. It's a dumb system, but it makes sense because it shows you are dedicated and a well rounded individual. My suggestion is to try to finish something you could use if you ever lose your medical.
DeleteThanks for explanations, although I have to admit that its one weird system, in whole North America.
DeleteDrago mi je da su ADR i ASL imale mnogo pre drugih.
ReplyDeleteNS-INN
Takodje su vozili rodbinu i prijatelje u kokpitu. Samim tim ih je bilo vise od dvoje u kokpitu. Mora da je tako bezbednije.
DeleteDa li je moguće da si toliko pristrasan i neobjektivan???
+1
DeletePa sta sto su vozili takodje moze se uci i u cockpit u OS-KL i u ostalim Aviokompanijama tako da ne znam sta je tu lose .
DeleteINN-NS
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ReplyDeleteLufthansa is reintroducing 3rd daily MUC-BEG in 2015 summer season:
ReplyDeleteLH1728 MUC1435 - 1600BEG E95
LH1729 BEG1640 - 1815MUC E95
Finally some good news for the upcoming season
Deletebut then again if you look at beg airport webpage arrivals or departures you will see that its only ASL flights+ Star alliance (still very strong presence in BEG). From low cost other than Wizz we have only Pegasus and Easyjet to Geneva. I do not classify FlyDubai as low cost since just take a look at their prices and you will see Qatar is cheaper on many occasions. I think it will be ok summer season with a small increase in pax numbers ( 4-6%) mostly due to transit pax which will surge on ASL.The only thing I am complaining about is limited amount of low cost flights.
DeleteLH will not be introducing 3rd daily flight from MUC to BEG, but will start flying regularly in the afternoon (LH1728/29) instead of overnight (LH1724/25). So there will be only two daily frequencies on the route.
DeleteLOL bad news then
DeleteASL is packed these days... so I would expect that only on account of increased LF we see improved pax numbers on BEG.
Delete@8:00 PM
DeleteNot necessarily bad. There's an overnight from FRA, but no afternoon flights at all by LH. I would say this is an improvement. Sure, three instead of two would be better, but this way you get to choose whether to take the morning, afternoon or evening flight.
Nevertheless, I sure miss BA... I don't get it - JU has 9 weeklies, plus WizzAir, LF is great, BA has an extensive North American network, they would do fine on the route... Given how much they fly in the region (some cities are served with multiple daily flights!) I honestly don't get what they're waiting for here...
They won't earn a damn and they know it. The transatlantic pax they're getting them through JU anyway.
DeleteMonday first landing of JU's 737 to Zagreb.
ReplyDelete