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| Niš not on the agenda for Air Serbia |
Air Serbia has ruled out the possibility of launching flights from Niš following renewed calls for the carrier to introduce services from the southeast Serbian city. Instead, it will assist in bringing other partner airlines to the airport. The Managing Director of Niš Constantine the Great Airport, Vladica Djurdjanović, says, "Niš is not a part of the airline's development plans. Air Serbia has a different business model which includes turning Belgrade into a hub, meaning all flights are launched from there. As a result, Niš does not fit into their plans, but could be suitable to airlines which cooperate with Air Serbia". The only scheduled commercial airline maintaining flights to Niš is Wizz Air, which runs two weekly services from Malmo and Basel.
Last week, the Serbian Prime Minister, Aleksandar Vučić, called on the national carrier to consider adding Niš to its route network. "As the Prime Minister I will point out this option to them but the decisions depends solely on whether they deem the route profitable. Our aim is not only to develop Belgrade", Mr Vučić noted. Earlier this year, the Serbian carrier said in a statement, "We are currently focused on our flights to and from Belgrade. At this point, we don’t have plans to launch operations to Niš Airport". Air Serbia’s predecessor, Jat Airways, had claimed that flights from Niš were unprofitable, though the airline maintained services between the city and Zurich for several years. Since then, Constantine the Great Airport has lowered its fees, charging all airlines (both full fare and low cost) only three euros for handling, landing and passenger services.
Over the past ten months, Constantine the Great Airport handled 26.081 passengers, an increase of over 1.000% compared to last year. Wizz Air, which launched flights to the city in mid-summer, recorded an average cabin load factor of over 80% on its two routes. The airport hopes to attract carriers other than Wizz and is primarily targeting airlines serving cities such as Frankfurt, London, Milan, Munich, Moscow, Paris, Vienna, Verona and Venice, which it has identified as viable destinations. Furthermore, it is believed flights from Istanbul could launch as early as next spring, since a Turkish carrier has expressed strong interest to operate the route.
Wise decision
ReplyDeleteNo problemo. Thanks a bunch.
ReplyDelete- Wizz Air
I intend not to fall for politician statement. They usually think one thing, say another and do a third.
ReplyDeleteTo me it looks as if this statement comes as a result of ASL's professional response.
DeletePM's request for flights from INI was political, this rejection is professional.
It also gives a bit of a chill to all those heated claims about the PM being the ultimate and supreme operational ruler of ASL.
typical political:
Deleteit should look like he is not!
haha when it is in the interest of Serbia its political but when its in the interest of Etihad its professional.
DeleteTo Anonymous November 26, 2015 at 10:31 AM
DeleteExactly!
It's their choice. They can't be forced into it and they don't have enough aircraft in BEG as it is.
ReplyDeleteBut for Banja Luka they have enough planes?
DeleteYou realise that Banja Luka is operated with a Belgrade-based aircraft?
Deleteand BEG-VIE-INI-VIE-BEG would not be?
DeleteBEG-INI-BEG would also operate with BEG based aircraft.
DeleteIf you consider the amount of money Dodik has given to ASL, they should be flying to every RS village, not only Banja Luka.
DeleteKad izgradite...
DeleteAir Serbia makes easy money with BEGBNX route.
DeleteAnonymous zna ko koliko daje subvencije smesno :
DeleteINN-NS
Of course I know. My uncle told me.
DeleteMolim da moje ime ne koristite da ja sam to javite se privatno ne ujedam ;)
DeleteNot enough planes? Cancel AUH and there you are with extra 10+ hours of A319. Too big for INI but easily 2 even 3 rotations elsewhere. Let EY do the route alone.
DeleteThey should stick to Wizz Air for the time being. Help them expand their network, bring in more passengers... which also means that the airport will have increased income. Obviously the airport can't survive with 4 weekly flights but if Wizz Air keeps on adding more and more then the airport will come closer to becoming self-sustainable.
ReplyDeleteWhy not have a bus company that links the airport with southern cities whose schedule is aligned with the flight times in and out Nis. It would be a good way to boost numbers.
+1
Delete&NemjeeNovember 25, 2015 at 6:08 PM
Delete"Somehow I don't see them completely replacing their A320 fleet with the A321. There are some markets where 220 seats would be just too much....."
W6 A321ceo HA-LXA has 230 seats, not 220.
AnonymousNovember 26, 2015 at 10:00 AM
DeleteThank you!
The partner airline that seems most logical for INI to me is Niki to VIE.
ReplyDeleteThey are a fully integrated subsidiary of Air Berlin.
Air Serbia and Air Berlin seem to be cooperating more recently, especially in regards to Air Serbia's transatlantic aspirations.
VIE could be served 3-4 times weekly from the start. Besides the O/D pax, some transit pax would also be in the mix.
+1
DeleteNjih ako pogleda SmartWings sa Bratislave pogleda, Niki nema sta da trazi u Nis.
DeleteOcigledno da dva preostala aerodroma u Srbiji za dugo vremena, bolje reci dok ne bude u floti Er Srbije avioni sa kapacitetom od 30 do 50 sedista. Ipak nacionalna avio kompanija nije u opredeljenju razvoja Niskog i Kraljevackog aerodroma. Vlada Srbije po strategiji razvoja se opredelila i za ova dva sekundarna aerodrome. Relaksacijom propisa i beneficijom prema buducim prevoznicima zavisi ce buducnost civilne avijacije Srbije van Beograda. Naravno pod ovim se podrazumeva i er kargo, obzirom na veoma znacajni potencijal farmerskih proizvoda iz Sumadijskog, Moravskog, regiona Stare Raske... U sadasnjim okolnostima, prirodno je da se Er Srbija posvecuje razvoju Beogradskog aerodromskog centra. Aerodrom Nis i Morava su deo Srbije. Njihov potencijal se mora pokrenuti. Ne za deset godina, nego SADA. Od ove dolazece nove godine do njene polovine, dileme bicemo svedoci dali Vlada Srbije moze prosiriti avio saobracaj van Beograda. Reci ce izgubiti vrednost bez dela. Svakako Er Srbija je prioritet. Rodney & ✈MORAVA AIRPORT✈. Kraljevo✈Sydney.
DeleteVlada Srbije se nije opredelila za razvoj ovih aerodroma. Nije odvojila ni evra za to. ILS u Nisu instalira SMATAS iako se nikada nece otplatiti. U Ladjevcima nisu ni evra izdvjili pristanisnu zgradu su finansirali Turci prosirenje i produzene piste nece da plati vlada Srbije instaliranje ILS takodje u dolini morave znaju da udare magle kada ima najvise potencijala za charter letove za Kopaonik. Aerodrom Ponikve jos stoje zatrpani avioni sa bombama i koristi se deo piste samo. Ako verujes Zorani samo nastavi.
DeleteI just don't understand why wouldn't they launch flights BEG-INI-BEG, I mean I believe if the price of the flights would be decent there really would be some passengers.
ReplyDeleteShort route like that can exist only with PSO. Why PM does not want to give 50.000 EUR per year for that route and still spent 30.000.000,00+ per year for flights out of Belgrade I don't know.
DeletePM should look to West and to see how Croatia finance PSO routes:
ZAG-PUY
ZAG-ZAD
ZAG-SPU
ZAG-DBV
ZAG-RJK
ZAG-BWK
ZAG-OSI
OSI-SPU
OSI-DBV
OSI-PUY (from 2016)
OSI-ZAG (from 2016)
RJK-SPU-DBV
SPU-DBV
PUY-DBV (from 2016)
ZAG-OSI and ZAG-ZAD are short as BEG-INI, but still they have 20 flights per week on those routes.
I imate kompaniju koju ne mozete nikome da prodate.
DeleteTi letovi nisu prepreka prodaje. Oni su upravo razlog da se prodaja ostvari jer su finansirani iz PSO. Tu kompanija nema nikakav rizik, sve plača država. A u slučaju Srbije država plača ogromne subvencije. Normalno bi bilo da deo tog novca bude usmeren na letove iz INI. Kao što je normalno da deo novca Hrvatske usmeravaju na takve linije, no ona sav novac za subvencije usmerava na te linije. Kako može da se opravda tolik novac a da nema ni jednog leta iz INI za BEG ili neke druge destinacije?
DeleteAman te ALS je prodat CTN nije bas zbog toga, koliko oni imaju gubitaka ne zna Purger.
DeleteNis ne moze sam sebe da izdrzava ni svoj aerodrom. Nije normalno da drzava izdrzava avio linije placajuci preko njih gubitke avio kompanija. Nema potrebe bilo sta da opravdava.
Stvarno ne razumijem prvu rečenicu. Totalno je konfuzna i ne razumijem niti njenu bit, a kamoli poantu.
DeleteNormalno je da država podržava avio linije koje su PSO. To radi apsolutno svaka država na svijetu. Nije normalan model u kojem država financira kompaniju i subvencionira njen rad u cijelosti. U zapadnom svijetu ne financiraju se kompanije nego državi bitne linije.
I isto tako je normalno da država koja troši novac svojih poreznih obveznika to mora i pravdati onima čiji novac troši. To nije noralno još samo u Sjevernoj Koreji.
DeleteSto vasa drzava ne radi i padate u sve vecu krizu.
Delete"
Delete1) Air Serbia has ruled out the possibility of launching flights from Niš following renewed calls for the carrier to introduce services from the southeast Serbian city.
2) Instead, it will assist in bringing other partner airlines to the airport. "
What I don't understand is the second sentence.
I am wondering how an airline can allow itself to say it.
I really don't understand why Air Serbia does not fly BEG-VIE-INI-VIE-BEG. There is no way this route (INI-VIE-INI) would not be succesful. And by that way they will show that they are real Serbian airline not just Air Belgrade.
ReplyDeleteSo basically you are saying that Air France should be renamed Air Paris or British Airways London Airways?
DeleteFurthermore, JU doesn't have enough Atrs for its current needs in Belgrade. They are surely not going to deploy it on the route you proposed which would totally destroy their ability to offer connections in BEG.
If you are in such desperate need of a Vienna link, lobby for Wizz Air to launch Bratislava flights.
And let me ask you, even if JU does launch INI-VIE flights, do you really think that fares will be lower than €250? I think not.
So Lufthansa is not a real German airline because it doesn't fly to some small cities in Germany where there is basically no demand?
DeleteI mean yeah I believe INI-VIE-INI could be succesful, but calling Air Serbia "Air Belgrade" just because it doesn't fly from other cities in Serbia is just childish and stupid.
Nemjee +1000
DeleteYes, they call ex Sabena Brussels air because they have flights just from Brussels.
DeleteIn same time Lufthansa have several hundreds flights out of MUC and FRA, British hundreds of flights out of London, even some of them out of UK, and Air France several bases, hundreds of flights out of Paris even out of Europe. Those examples are really not good for argument Air Serbia is not Air Belgrade.
Air Serbia is financed hardly by state of Serbia, it is owned 51% by state of Serbia, they should fly from other Serbian airport. That should be in contract and Etihad should know that they are minor owner.
Of course it is not about routes which have no demand, but flights from INI to VIE, IST and ZRH for sure have no risk and should be open.
Da kako da ne, jaki ste.
DeleteNamjee, you are wrong. E.g. AF has flights from Marseille or TLS to places other then the 2 Paris Airports.
DeleteBritish flies to lots of places from Glasgow, Manchester etc. (partially served by subsidaries - which JU could also do, introduce ASL Express with lower cost base and 1 ATR based in INI).
Actually, Air France's attempt to expand in other French cities failed miserably. Those flights were a disaster and but a few are kept in some of the larger cities whose economy is not only stronger than that of Nis but than that of Serbia. Comparing the two is just silly. Funny thing you mention British Airways. Their expansion outside Heathrow is in LGW and LCY. lol
DeleteAlso, you can't compare Nis and Banja Luka because Nis is connected to Belgrade with a highway while to reach Banja Luka you either have to drive through Croatia where the border crossings tend to be unpredicatble or to go through Srpska whose local roads are disastrous.
Air Serbia's costs are already low enough for it to be more than competitive internationally. Also, JU is in no position to establish a subsidiary primarily because it doesn't have the necessary aircraft for it.
DeleteEven Aviolet's future is uncertain because the Boeings are getting too old and unreliable.
No, that is not true. Air France have more than 1000 flights to Paris, even from cities much smaller than Nis. For example Castres (2 flights per day from that tinny city where they have several other airports near to that city).
DeleteBut in same time they fly from other cities not only to Paris:
Secondary hubs:
Lyon: 30 routes
Marseille: 22 routes
Nice: 20 routes
Toulouse: 14 routes
Other airports:
Agen: 2 routes
Ajaccio: 13 routes
Basel: 4 routes
Bastia: 13 routes
Biarritz: 2 routes
Bordeaux: 12 routes
Brest: 6 routes
Birve: 2 routes
Caen: 3 routes
Calvi: 8 routes
Clermont-Ferrand: 6 routes
Figari: 14 routes
La Rochelle: 3 routes
Lille: 14 routes
Metz: 4 routes
Montpellier: 5 routes
Nantes: 3 routes
Pau: 3 routes
Quimper: 2 routes
Rennes: 8 routes
Strasbourg: 12 routes
And out of Europe:
Cayenn, French Guinana: 3 routes
Fort de France, Matinique: 6 routes
Pointe a Pitre, Guadeloupe: 5 routes
+ more than 10 tinny airports with flights just to Paris
And you can call that Air Paris? We are not discuss here abut how huge market is but about is Air France flying just from Paris or not.
For example I will fly on Sunday Point a Pitre - Fort de France where Air France have several flights per day and for sure there are "other" reasons, political one, and it is not about profit or demand.
First of all, the discussion was regarding flights from Nis to other places beyond Serbia, Vienna being mentioned as the number one candidate. That's why we have to only look at AF's international flights from cities other than Paris. Also, why didn't you mention all the cities that were suspended after their decision to expand beyond CDG and ORY and how short-lived that experiment was. They even cut a bunch of routes from Lyon which is an industrial powerhouse. There was also talk of suspending Paris-Strasbourg, don't know if they actually went through with it.
DeleteFurthermore, I never said that they had NO flights from secondary cities. I said that a few were left in economically strong cities (which also saw considerable downsizing in recent years). Also, at the end of the day, France is a much bigger, wealthier and more populous country than Serbia. If AF struggled to position itself beyond its main hub then what can be said about JU and Serbia?
It's a well known fact that many well-established airlines struggle in making two or more hubs work. Just look at Turkish Airlines' failure in Ankara and how much they have been downsizing in recent years. Even SAS is not having an easy time balancing its expansion between its three hubs.
So there is more than mere numbers. Like the anonymous above stated, their financial performance can be a good indicator of how lucrative these secondary routes are for AF.
If INI ever sees a JU aircraft,it will be either on a flight to Belgrade or an Aviolet charter flight.
Aman te razume se kao Alen Šćuric u krivi. Zna on koliko ima u ASLu para iako je neki dan skupljen novac na trzistu cak i za njih. Pricati im i crtati da AF ima iste probleme kao CTN je bespredmetno dok ne dodje neko iole normalan na vlast u Zagrebu.
DeleteNemjee, sorry but 239 routes with more than 1.000 flights per day from other airports is not few flights. And most of those routes are not to ORY and CDG. Lot of them are to other French airports and even more out of France.
DeleteFor example Lyon:
Biarritz,
Bologna,
Bordeaux,
Brest,
Brussels,
Caen,
Clermont-Ferrand,
Florence,
Gothenburg–Landvetter,
La Rochelle,
Lille,
Luxembourg (begins 21 February 2016),
Marseille,
Metz/Nancy,
Milan–Malpensa,
Montpellier,
Nantes,
Nice,
Paris CDG,
Paris–Orly,
Pau,
Poitiers,
Prague,
Rennes,
Rome–Fiumicino,
Strasbourg,
Toulouse,
Venice
Seasonal: Bastia, Naples
Seasonal charter: Split
But I am not so impressed with Lyon as with fact that from tinny airports they fly not just to CDG or ORY but to some other destination. Most of those airports you would never find in map without help.
Of course we can not compare Lyon with Niš, but there are more than one example where Air France fly on routes which are not profitable and with modest demand. I gave you one example.
And let me point that this discussion starts when you said that we should call Air France as Air Paris. So many flights out of Paris for sure can not make it Air Paris.
Technically, Air France is Air Paris, so to say. Most of the routes and destinations you mentioned are operated by AF's subsidiary, HOP!. Let's take LYS as an example, only one route is operated by Air France and that's CDG. The rest is all by HOP!.
DeleteLike I already said, given their financial performance and the airline's reluctance to keep on investing in secondary cities and places can only go to indicate that this business model is not that lucrative which begs the question if there is any reason for JU to expand beyond BEG in a country that is incomparably poorer than France.
Now, if we are to look at the overall picture of the country and if we are to compare Air France's presence in non-Paris airports to that of other airlines, primarily Ryanair and easyJet (even Volotea in some places) we can see that Air France still remains quite Paris-centric.
If we are to go one step further and to evaluate the changes in the local market over the last few years, we will notice a clear withdrawal of AF from secondary markets. Their withdrawal is followed by the expansion of other airlines I mentioned earlier.
At the same time, AF's base in Paris still remains strong and it is the primary engine of the airline's growth and survival. Because of their defeat in all places beyond the capital, I believe it is safe to call them Air Paris.
AF tried to venture out of PAR, and it ended in a defeat. This is with cities OUTSIDE of Paris' catchment area. Niš isn't even outside of Belgrade's catchment area.
DeleteSerbia is far too small geographically and economically to have the flag carrier operate two bases.
But Air Serbia serving INI would bring social and economic benefits.
Having a daily flight departing BEG at 24:00 and returning around 05:00 would offer great connections to ASL's West Europe flights.
1. In some of airports Air France is using HOP to compete LCC. So, where they have strong present of easyJet and other LCCs like in LYS they fly mostly with HOP. On the other hand in Marseille most of flights are operted by Air France, not HOP.
Delete2. And HOP is not argument. Air Serbia can open something like HOP or regional to support flights like this. HOP and regional are still Air France companies, 100%. Or they can give flights from INI to some other company in code-share and supported by PSO like Croatia gave that to Trade air on OSI-ZAG and ZAG-RJK-SPU-DBV routes in code-share with CTN.
3. It is not true that Air France is withdrawing from nonParis routes. Opening HOP there are much more nonParis routes that it was ever before.
4. We are not talking here about 2nd hub in Serbia. INI for sure can not be that. We are talking about few flights per week. Top frequency would be 7 weekly flights to one or two destinations combined.
Jedan atr uvek to može sad pitanje je sa posadama i radnim vremenom.
DeleteAjmo još jednom
DeleteBEG-VIE-INI-VIE-BEG
Jedan avion, jedna posada (može da odradi 6 legova, a ne 4 kao u ovom primeru). Nema dodatnih troškova.
Pricamo o nocenju u Nis. Tvoje podrazumeva dnevni let.
DeleteZašto bi noćio u INI?
DeleteNemjee je upravu ko ce da leti VIE-INI kad svi znamo da nebi dali ni 50 a kamoli 200 kad svi znamo da iz tog kraja slabo vole da daju pare plus nije ni razvijen.
DeleteINN-NS
Osim u špicu sezone, BEG ima dve rotacije dnevno za VIE sa ATR-om. Zaista mislite da INI može da puni jedan dnevno, ako 10 puta veći Beograd (a i nešto bogatiji), uz nemerljivo veće interesovanje stranih putnika, jedva napuni dva?
DeleteO bože. Hajmo malo lekcija za početnike:
Delete1. Ne leti iz BEG samo JU za VIE nego i OS. To je daleko više letova iz BEG za VIE od dva dnevno, o večoj konfiguraciji OS aviona da i ne govorimo. Iz INI nema konkurencije na liniji za VIE.
2. Putnik iz BEG može koristiti konekcije preko TXL, DUS, AUH, FCO, FRA, MUC, VIE, ZRH, CDG, AMS, LHR, SVO, IST, CPH, ATH, ARN, MXP... no iz INI bi imao samo mogućnost konektiranja preko te linije u VIE, jer sa Wizzairom nema konekcija. Dakle ne radi se samo o P2P putnicima nego bi gro putnika bio konektirajućih
3. Putnik iz BEG može koristiti i niz drugih kompanija osim Air Serbie (kao što su Turkish, Pegasus, Qatar, flyDubai, Alitalia, Swiss, Lufthansa, Austrian, Aeroflot, Wizzair, Norwegian...), dok iz Niša ima samo dvije linije Wizza i svi ostali bi koristili Air Serbiju.
Dakle, ovakva logika koju si upotrijebio jest diletantska.
Zasto bi gubili onda putnike. Zaista diletantski.
Delete1. It's still too early to tell how effective HOP! will be when faced with larger LCC competitors, notably easyJet which has been aggressively expanding in France, as I am sure you know. When it comes to MRS, I think Air France's presence there is more than pathetic. The airport handles over 8 million passengers while AF has 8 destinations out of which 2 are to Paris (CDG & ORY).
Delete2. There is no reason to give PSO for BEG-INI. The two cities are 250 km apart and are connected by a decent enough highway. Furthermore, Wizz Air has proven that there is a market there just not the one that fits with the legacy carriers' business model.
Also, do you seriously believe that JU can open a subsidiary? If it was so easy for them to acquire new aircraft then we wouldn't have the archaic Boeing and Atr birds still flying around. They would have been retired a long time ago.
4. HOP! has cancelled quite a few routes, their whole business model is still fresh. Like I wrote before, we will have to wait for another year to see how well they compete against other LCCs. Let's not forget that HOP! is nothing more and nothing less than all of AF's regional carriers put under a single brand. Before this merger they were failing. Why should we expect anything else now?
5. We are talking about a focus city which presents its own challenges for which I don't think JU is ready.
Nemjee I don't agree that Niš can be even focus city. It is all about 2-3 routes, 5-6 flights per week. Zadar is not a focus city of Croatia airlines, also some 250 km by highway from Zagreb but still Croatia is flying there from ZAG 14 times per week in summer, 7 in winter; and from ZAD to some other destinations.
DeleteI also thing there is no need for Air Serbia regional and JU is not in position to open one. But I thing they should open one or two routes from INI without new company just the way Croatia is flying from Pula, Zadar, Rijeka, Split, Dubrovnik and Brac, or on way it has code-share in Osijek (Trade air).
I am not huge fan of HOP and yes, I know how they work, I fly with them several times per year. But I was just reacting on your observation that those flights are not AF one, and you know that all HOP flights are really AF one. And there are more than few of those that fly from other cities not to Paris. It was just reaction to your Air Paris qualification. And yes, AF fly from other cities, yes AF company named HOP even more. So, you can not say that AF could have name Air Paris. Also you can not say that LH, AF, BA and others have flights from their main hub only. That is not true.
I don't think Nis should be anything for JU. Maybe they could do some seasonal flights from BEG and that's that. JU has no interest in launching flights out of there to other parts of Europe. They have Wizz Air for that.
DeleteAs far as HOP! goes, even they themselves describe their company as an alliance between Airlinair, Brit Air and Regional... which are all part of the AF group. Legally they are part of AF but when it comes to branding and all that they aren't really. So saying they are Air France isn't 100% true.
I never said that about those airlines, please read one of my previous comments for clarification. However, when it comes to British Airways they are very London-centric. If we take Birmingham, the UK's second city, BA has no flights out of there. The country's third city Leeds has only a LHR flight. It's only CityFlyer that has some flights here and there from places such as Scotland.
As far as LH goes, their primary brand will be limited to MUC and FRA alone. Even though they might own Eurowings and others, their primary brand will be centered around their two hubs. My argument that Air France is Paris-centric stays. It will only fall when they replace their HOP! brand with their mainline metal. Until then Air France will be concentrated on Paris while HOP! will take over most of the regional flying, among other things.
Iz INI jedno bi moglo po meni na funkcionise LCC ili da Aviolet ima neki ugovor sa nekom UK Turistickom agencijom i i leti zimi 1-2 pw za LGW i to je to:
DeleteINN-NS
@Nemjee clearly you lost this argument. Move on. You continuously change the posts dodge Purger's hard facts that disproved your argument. You originally replied to the post about Air Serbia needing to also operate flights out of other Serbian airports to be a Serbian airline, rather than a Belgrade airline by comparing Air Serbia to Air France as if Air France only serves Paris. Purger utterly debunked that argument. Then you started changing your arguments (moving the posts left and right with some frivolous arguments about, say, if HOP! is or is not the same as AF) and further undermining your original argument of comparing Air Serbia to Air France.
DeleteThe point is that Serbia serves a single airport/destination in Serbia: Belgrade. You bringing AF, LH or BA into this argument was silly. The latter serve the rest of their country and offer connecting flights via their hubs, JU does not.
Now, it seems like you, Purger and most of us think that JU should not 'focus' on INI, however that does not mean that southern Serbians have no grounds to feel hard done by. They are paying for a national airline and yet don't get to rip any of the benefits. They have every right to get JU, BEG and Serbian government to pay subsidies to W6 or other LCCs to operate out of INI. The city of Nis should not have to spend it's taxes paying for a national airline that takes away business from it's region and also be expected to pay subsidies to LCCs.
And to that immature kid, INI routes would rely almost entirely on southern Serbians expats just like the rest of the EX-YU airports.
#JustAnObservation
Nemjee +1 Svako ko se imalo razume da nema velike sanse za internacionalne linije iz INI.
DeleteINN-NS
Observer,
DeleteMy argument was based on the fact that regional flying in France is not done by Air France itself but by its hybrid regional version which is nothing more and nothing else than a merger between its three failing regional operators. HOP! operates independently and those 330 daily flights which it operates for itself have nothing to do with mainline Air France. That's like saying JAT and Adria were the same airline because they had the same owner- the Yugoslav government. Or does it mean that Aer Lingus, British Airways and Iberia are the same because they are all owned by IAG? In my books HOP! and Air France are two different carriers despite one being owned by the other. This is because their business models are fundamentally different. They don't even share a same IATA code (AF vs. A5).
My initial argument is that just like Air Serbia, those airlines are concentrated on their primary hubs which is true, British Airways being the best example. That's why I said that the only sustainable way INI will be served by JU is if they introduced BEG-INI-BEG flights.
If I remember correctly, Air Serbia's subsidies should end in 2016 which means that people of southern Serbia will no longer fund an airline that continuously ignores them. Now, if these subsidies are extended then we will have to ask what's wrong with JU.
Delete+1 Nemjee
DeleteNarod sa juga dobija vise nego dovoljno subvencija iz Beograda, posebno za polupropala preduzeca.
Nemjee, my friend, I really appreciate what you write but this time you really push it. HOP! is company designed to fight against low cost and to feed Air France routes. It is subsidiaries of AF. HOP is brand of Air France 100% doesn't meter who operate the planes (same thing as Trade air is on OSI-ZAG route and it is operate by BAS planes for them).
DeleteBefore HOP AF fly on those routes or some of AF's regional company. HOP is just cheaper model to fly on those routes. The same thing Lufthansa have with CityLine and British with CityFlyer. Bigger companies open smaller regional companies to support their regional routes and smaller companies can not do that because of modest fleets and do those flights by their own metal and structure. In same cases they involved another company and make it regional one (Aegean with Olympic and Travel Service plan that with CSA).
You can not compare IAG (British-Iberia-Vueling-Aer Lingus) with this model. Same thing is Air France-KLM and Lufthansa-Austrian-Swiss.
And yes CityLine (Lufthansa), CityFlyer (British), HOP! (Air France), Iberia Regional (Iberia), Olympic (Aegean), CityLiner (Alitalia), Nordic Regional (Finnair), Connection (Delta)... are all example how you can serve your secondary market and feeding routes.
Ok very interesting discussion, I hope I can just hop in and say a word.
DeleteDoes anybody have any examples of a serious legacy carrier that operates internationally out of a city of 300.000 that has an Africa-level economy and is surrounded by three airports within three hours driving? Add to this the requirement that this city be less than three hours away from this airline's main base.
Even though ASL is government owned, its mission is to become a sustainable and profitable airline. Flying from INI will not move it closer to that goal.
Oh yes. I gave you example of Castres, small community (45.000 inhabitants) in middle of nowhere. Very poor part of France in mountains. Toulouse is 75 km far away and in radius of 200 km they have 2 very big and 4 bigger airports. Even Barcelona is in 350 km.
DeleteAnd still they have 2 flights per day to Paris.
Also Osijek. Very poor part of Croatia, just 100.000 inhabitants, just 280 km from Zagreb by highway; Belgrade, Budapest and Tuzla very near. Next year they will have (confirmed) 12 weekly flights to ZAG, DBV, PUY, SPU, ZAD and STN. That is without Sea Air and others they negotiate with.
But I don't thing that is a good idea. They should fly to VIE and IST, maybe ZRH. Not to BEG.
Ok, I still disagree because airlines such as Cityline are fully integrated into Lufthansa and they operate as LH flights and their base is at MUC and FRA. HOP! on the other hand has a completely different branding and an independent business plan. I mean, AF and A5 even code-share on some routes.
DeleteThey are more comparable to Germanwings, that is Eurowings. But anyway, like I already said before, time will tell how successful this business model will be. I am not holding my breath, that's for sure. There is a reason why those three airlines couldn't survive before and putting lipstick on a pig won't change anything. Given that in the last year they suspended three LYS routes and only added one doesn't give much hope, especially if one is to look at how aggressively easyJet is expanding there.
Anyway, I don't think we will agree on this matter so there is no more point in beating a dead horse.
By the way, the reasons why Castres has a flight to Paris could also do with the fact that the two cities are 700km apart. I think this route is more comparable to BEG-TIV than BEG-INI.
Nemjee, look I fly HOP! all the time and buy ticket in Air France. For me there is no different at all if that is AF plane or HOP one. So use to fly inside France or on some route to French province from out of France.
DeleteBut discussion was not about good model, or will HOP survive, how much of flights are under AF number or independent. Discussion was that there are several different models which companies use for their feeding and regional routes but that all of them do those
- LH and CityLine
- AF and HOP
- Aegean and Olympic
- TAROM without independent regional company
P.S.
HOP is not like Eurowings. Transavia France is model like Eurowings. HOP is much more like CityLine but of course not exactly same.
I really enjoy in our discussion today and tomorrow. It is not about who is right but to learn from each other, isn't it?
Purger 1:54
DeleteI said flying INTERNATIONALLY. It is completely expected that an airline in an developed country will fly from their hub to every single domestic village that is more than a few hours driving away.
What would be truly impressive is if AF flew from Castres to somewhere internationally that is not their base because then they would not have feed on either end, just as ASL would not have feed on INI-VIE.
ZAG-OSI has absolutely ZERO economic sense and Is not msustainable. Once subsidies end, the route will end. This is also not comparable to INI-VIE because ZAG-OSI has feed on one end.
If Serbia was more developed, there would be justification for ASL serving BEG-INI, but as of right now there is none.
Just because a market exists, doesn't mean an airline has to jump on it. Often it would be contrary to the business model of the airline.
Air Serbia's business model is to make a hub in the space between Vienna, Rome, and Athens/Istanbul.
Of course, as long as the discussion is civil that's all that matters. Just one small comment at the end, and that's related to your 1.000 flights per day. I checked on HOP!'s website and they operate around 550 daily departures where roughly 350 are on their own and the rest on behalf of AF.
DeleteBut anyway, it's always a pleasure.
One should enjoy discussion if it is civilized.
DeleteThere is not just HOP! flights. Most of flights from secondary airports to CDG and ORY are with AF and they are with high frequency. Also some domestic flights between secondary airports are with AF, and some international also. Just from TLS to ORY and CDG they have 40 flights per day. Last summer I flew TLS-VCE with AF A320. This year from TLS they have flights to ORY and CDG and 4 international routes.
Alexander, of course even much more. Most of airports which are near to hub are served not to those hub but from those airports to other airports or international flights. For example GRZ. Exempt feeding flights to VIE they also have 12 international flights just by OS. Same thing with Linz (185 km from VIE) and Salzburg.
DeleteLille airport 226 km from Paris 14 routes (HOP)
Karlsruhe airport 140 km from Frankfurt even less from STR, and have 1 route (Eurowings). Lugano airport (205 km from Zurich) exempt Zurich has one more route by LX. Karlovy Vary (50.000 inhabitants) is just 140 km from Prague but OK has 2 routes etc. etc.
It is 3 months now since I ask Air Serbia to sent me back money for taxes for ticket ATH-BEG-ZAG I did not use. I sent them everything, note in advance I will not use ticket, they respond that everything is OK and that they will sent money to my account. Nothing happen since then. They didn't respond since then.
ReplyDeleteIt is more than unprofessional. Can anyone help me here and give me any contact in Air Serbia or in Serbian institution where I can protect my rights.
They take their time but you are paid back.
DeleteMy suggestion is that you keep sending them reminders and you will eventually get your money back. Involving other parties into the communication will just make it more complicated and eat more of your time. One e-mail in 10-15 days will do the job.
DeleteMy advice: next time buy your ticket at travel agent who might charge you lets say 15 Eur more. However, you will get your refund immediately and you will have a person to talk to anytime.
DeleteZa taj novac moze da predje barem 300 km puta da li si normalan?
DeleteČemu ovako bezobrazan komentar? Niti je primjeren niti je točan. Poslovni čovijek koji odabere kartu jeftiniju za 15 EUR bilo gdje izvan vlastitog aerodroma nije poslovan čovijek nego budala. Onaj koji odabere kartu 200 EUR skuplju po osobi, tj. 600 EUR za tri osobe (koliko u prosjeku putuje na moj trošak) isto nije poslovni čovijek nego rasipnik ili državni službenik.
DeleteTko me poznaje zna da je moje vrijeme skupo i da ga ne razbacujem, pa ako se odlučim za polazak iz drugog aerodroma rezultat je samo ušteda velike količine novaca (a to mali iznosi poput 200-300 EUR nikako i nikada nisu). Isto tako tko me zna upoznat je sa činjenicom da ne samo da nisam škrta osoba nego ona koja uvijek časti i financijski pomaže desetke ljudi i institucija. A to ne bih mogao postići rasipništvom. Dakle ne radi se o škrtosti nego racionalnosti.
Pa još jednom ponavljam pitanje, čemu ovakav komentar? Stvar zlobe ili nedostatka odgoja?
In my case (delayed flight), after 15 days without reply, I threatened to report them to Civil Aviation Directorate and money was on my bank account the next business day. They are obligated to respond to passenger claims within 30 days or they can get a hefty fine if reported to Civil Aviation Directorate.
DeletePurger, if all else fails, use reklamacijeputnika@cad.gov.rs. However, a reminder to Air Serbia and a notice that you will contact CAD will do the trick.
DeleteI think they are seriously understaffed when it comes to customer service and Legal Dept.
I suspect they are delaying claim resolutions intentionally as many passengers give up after waiting for a long time.
DeleteI had my two different tickets refounded in no time, one took 6 weeks and one 2 weeks..I am sure you are not doing something right.
DeleteThe cost of Air Serbia flying from Nis would be large as you would have to have a catering base there, customer support, pay hotel for crew etc. They have an office in Nis and they offer special fares for Nis customers which I think is enough for now.
ReplyDeleteWhy on earth you must have hotel for crew for BEG-INI-VIE-INI-BEG flights?
DeleteWhy on earth you need catering base there? Does Air Serbia have base in Banja Luka, Paris, Moscow, Berlin...?
You are talking nonsence.
It's a shame Air Serbia doesn't have INIBEG, INIVIE, INIZUR, INIDUS flights; all can be done with an ATR72; 5 times per week in the summer and 3 times per week in the winter season.
DeleteFlights ought to be distributed to different days.
Air Belgrade........
ReplyDeleteAir Surcin
DeleteAir Vucic
DeleteBeograd ima dva aerodroma.
DeleteZaista mi je zao ovih pacenika koji bi sad Er Srbiju da zovu Air Belgrade, ali ipak morate da shvatite da je maltene svaka aviokompanija osim Wizza koja je letela iz Nisa na kraju odustala jer potraznje jednostavno nema ili je veoma slaba.
ReplyDeletePokazalo se da ce putnika odatle biti samo ako je aviokompanija low cost, a cisto sumnjam da bi Air Serbia dramaticno spustala cene samo da bi vi mogli da letite iz Nisa uprkos cinjenici da je Beograd udaljen maltene 2-3 sata autoputom.
Takodje, morate da shvatite da Air Serbia i bez Nisa nema dovoljno aviona, ne mogu da se otarase ni ova 4 stara Boinga a vi bi letove iz Nisa. Kupite im avione i nije problem, letece.
Eventualno bi mogli da uvedu letove BEG-INI-BEG pa izvol'te sa jednim presedanjem mozete stici do vise od pola Evrope. Uvoditi letove iz Nisa bi bilo ravno samoubistvu jer se odlicno pokazalo vise puta da je potraznja slaba, pogotovo sa kompanijama kao sto je Air Serbia. A njima su svakako cene karata izuzetno niske, ipak sigurno ne dovoljno da uopste lete iz Nisa.
Eventualno bi mogli imati neku kompaniju tipa "Air Serbia Express" sa manjim avionima koja bi funkcionisala kao low cost firma i letela tamo gde iz Nisa iole ima potraznje: Pariz, Bec, Frankfurt ili neki drugi grad u Nemackoj, eventualno London i jos nekoliko gradova sezonski, ali to se uskoro sigurno nece desiti jer i sami imaju problema sa nedostatkom aviona.
Nek lepo uzmu kredit od banke i neka naprave avioliniju iz Nis sve sa autobuskom kompanijom. Porez koji placaju ionako nije dovoljan da pokrije troskove grada Nisa a kamo li avioliniju.
DeleteAir Serbia is financed also by Niš tax payers.
DeleteAir Serbia have flights where they have huge dumping and still low LF, like ZAG, BNX, SKP, TLV... But they still fly there. And those passengers are not paying taxes to Serbian budget which pay several million EUR for Air Serbia subvention.
How comes that Croatia Airlines (Trade Air) fly to Zadar, Pula, Brač, Rijeka and Osijek? For sure there is no more demand on Osijek-Zagreb flights espetialy as there is brend new highway for just 250 km distance.
Anonymous November 26, 2015 at 12:06 PM
Delete+1000
Thank you, very well said!
Sta ne razumes da porez koji placate nije dovoljan da pokrijete smecare i ostale troskove grada, a kamo li da se pitate o finansiranju Air Serbie? Ti putnici koje pominjes lete dalje i povecavaju LF na drugim linijama.
DeleteKoliko puta treba da ti se objasni da zbog tih letova imaju gubitke? Vecito ih pokriva drzava placajuci im da lete okolo, jer ne smeju drugacije, posebno od kada su odskoro u EU..
Morate shvatiti da zadatak projekta zvanog Air Serbia nije da razvija civilni vazdušni saobraćaj na aerodromima širom Srbije nego da bude važna karika u lancu ishrane Etihada.
DeletePrivatnike ne interesuju gradjani. Ako se uklapaš u interese domaćih i stranih tajkuna, to je dobro, ako se ne uklapaš, to je tvoj problem.
Na Balkanu danas, sve je podredjeno krupnom kapitalu i procentima koje dobijaju političari koji im to omoguće.
A vi i dalje sanjajte svoj san, o ovome ili onome.
Ono što svi znaju jeste da su BG i NI povezani autoputem i da je potrebno ne više od dva sata vožnje između dva grada. Toliko je - u najboljem slučaju - potrebno i za potencijalni let, imajući u vidu koliko ranije mora da se odradi check-in, koliko traje ukrcavanje, itd. i na kraju balade završite u Surčinu umesto u centru. Okej, konekcije su druga priča, ali da li zaista verujete da bi Nišlije plaćale premium od 50tak evra na cene iz Beograda, koje su ionako sve više, čekale satima na konekciju na Surčinu, kako u odlasku, tako i u povratku?!
DeleteIli bi Nišlije radije videle još Wizzovih letova, možda i neki drugi LCC, pa da za male pare mogu da lete po Evropi?
Nažalost, niti je Beograd Pariz, niti je Niš Lion, pa je poređenje sa AF potpuno neadekvatno. Ovo je mala zemlja sa 7 miliona relativno siromašnih stanovnika.
Uzgred, ZAG-ZAD i ZAG-OSI su za po 50km udaljeniji nego BEG i INI.
To bi bilo tačno da
Delete- Srbija nije vlasnik JU 51 odsto
- Srbija ne izdvaja milione EUR za subvencioniranje JU od kojih INI nema ni centa
@1:16
DeletePa ni te low cost aviokompanije kojih su Nislije po tebi zeljne ne lete do centra gradova, vec veoma cesto poprilicno daleko od centra (Beauvais, Luton, Skavsta, Hahn, Memmingen...), i mora da se placa prevoz do grada posle.
I ko je rekao da bi Air Serbijine karte u slucaju letova BEG-INI-BEG bile po 50 evra vise od putovanja kolima?
I zanimljivo da za konekcije pises "pusti ti konekcije", a veliki broj Nislija bi sigurno presedao za Bec, Pariz, Nemacku...
Praviti bazu u Nisu svakako nije najbolja ideja za Air Serbiju, ali ne vidim zasto BEG-INI-BEG letovi ne bi mogli biti realizovani.
@1:16
DeletePa ni te low cost aviokompanije kojih su Nislije po tebi zeljne ne lete do centra gradova, vec veoma cesto poprilicno daleko od centra (Beauvais, Luton, Skavsta, Hahn, Memmingen...), i mora da se placa prevoz do grada posle.
I ko je rekao da bi Air Serbijine karte u slucaju letova BEG-INI-BEG bile po 50 evra vise od putovanja kolima?
I zanimljivo da za konekcije pises "pusti ti konekcije", a veliki broj Nislija bi sigurno presedao za Bec, Pariz, Nemacku...
Praviti bazu u Nisu svakako nije najbolja ideja za Air Serbiju, ali ne vidim zasto BEG-INI-BEG letovi ne bi mogli biti realizovani.
Evo, ukratko, mada vidim da je ovo više emotivno nego racionalno pitanje...
Delete- Ne bi put kolima bio za 50 evra jeftiniji, već ako želimo da let BEG-INI bude isplativ, onda karte iz Niša moraju biti skuplje od onih iz Beograda za barem 50 evra, da bi se ta konekcija isplatila. Cifra je potpuno data napamet - verovatno je potrebno još više novca.
- Nisam rekao "pusti ti konekcije", nego da su konekcije druga priča. Hajde malo detaljnije zašto: teško da bi bilo više od jedne rotacije dnevno ka Nišu, valjda se oko toga slažemo. To znači da, u slučaju konektovanja ka/iz Evrope, putnici iz Niša bi morali da čekaju po nekoliko sati na određene konekcije, ili čak da noće u Beogradu na konekciji. I još da plate kartu više nego da lete iz Beograda. Imajući u vidu autoput, sumnjam da bi se puno ljudi odlučilo na takvu avanturu. Zato su konekcije druga priča. Ljudi će radije ići kolima ili busom dva sata do aerodroma, nego leteti dva sata, čekati sedam sati, itd.
- Kakve veze ima što je Srbija vlasnik 51% JU? Ili, ako zaista ima, gde su onda letovi iz Sombora, Užica, Kraljeva, Batajnice, Vršca i mitskog aerodroma u Čeneju? JU treba da posluje sa idejom da stiče profit, bez obzira na vlasničku strukturu. Sve drugo je trošenje novca svih poreskih obveznika uludo. Uostalom, da li je neko pitao 90% građana Srbije koji uopšte ne lete avionom da li žele da finansiraju aviokompaniju, odakle god letela?
- Ti milioni za subvencionisanje, mislim da je jasno, su milioni kojih se drugo preduzeće u državnom vlasništvu odreklo u korist Air Srbije, a to je beogradski aerodrom. Da, u teoriji, i BEG je u vlasništvu Republike Srbije, ali ako je JU nekome ostao dužan, to je aerodrom u glavnom gradu. Prema tome INI možda od toga nema ni centa, ali BEG gubi svoje cente zbog Air Srbije, ako me razumete.
Ne razumemo te, kada ce Osijek dobiti vezu sa Becom Hocemo Bec BEC.
DeleteLinija za Beč kreće od ljeta. No i da ne kreće Osijek je povezan sa Zagrebom (5 puta tjedno), sa Dubrovnikom, Splitom, Rijekom, Londonom, a od proljeća i sa Pulom i Zadrom. I sve to na račun poreznih obveznika RH (PSO) iako Osijek daleko najmanje novaca stavlja u budžet (kao i INI) jer je to najsiromašniji dio Hrvatske.
Deletetkgoga bole supak za te sheme da se daje novac ctn skvadri daj se ti vozi sa tim propelercima.
DeleteVozio sam se sa tim propelercima. Ništa lošiji od ATR-a upravo suprotno. Ni Q400 nije puno bolji. U svakom slučaju daleko bolje od NIŠ Expressa
DeleteAirSerbia wan't fly from Nis, that is fact and it is just bussines, nothing private. Instead, how about concentrate more on INI itself and if I could suggest admin to make an interview with INI director on their future steps, talks with possible new operators.
ReplyDeleteAny rummors of Wizz plans for next seas on, also loads from/to INI reacently?
LF over 80% more then many ASL flights from BEG :)
DeleteMnogi ne podnose sto ASL je svaki dan jaca i jaca a tek ce biti jaka uskoro a ne znam kako cete podneti buduce vesti ;)
ReplyDeleteINN-NS
Za INN-NS, pročitaj pažljivo ono što napisa Anonymous November 26, 2015 at 1:16 PM.
DeleteSrbija je dakle mala, siromašna država i kao takva ne može imati jaku kompaniju. Utuvi to sebi nekako u tu svoju glavu. Ako baš ne možeš, zamoli nekoga da ti pomogne.
Isto vrijedi i za sve ostale banana državice sa Balkana.
Bogami fino je ojačala sa 13 odsto letova manje zimus.
Delete@INN-NS....did you ever hear the story of the little boy who cried wolf? People stopped believing him just like many have stopped believing you.
DeleteJel ja teram nekoga da mi veruje ne ?
DeleteUostalo m dokazace vreme kao sto je i za letove za JFK.
INN-NS
@1:27 Dragi komsija, Srbija jeste mala i siromasna zemlja ali ASL je deo Etihad grupe, ako niste culi, izgooglajte..
DeleteZa Anonymous at 4:12 PM
DeleteNema veze što je tako, Etihad im neće pokrivati gubitke. Nego vlada te siromašne države. Kao što i pokriva. Nemam ništa protiv toga da JU bude uspješna ali se treba malo spustiti i na zemlju.
INN govorimo li to o A330 koji je u martu krenuo da leti za Peking
Deleteili o ATR-ovima koji su trebali da dođu u novembru?
Sisko, da ne kakiš o JFK jer o tome si pisao kad su već i deca u osnovnoj školi znali da kreće.
@6:53 hvala na brizi, ali njima se nikako ne spusta na zemlju, lete, lete i samo lete..
DeleteSačuvaj me bože INN-NS
DeleteLjubomorna osoba koja nije nista znala ahha .
Smesni ste nigde nisam rekao tacan datum dolaska ATR a onaj je dosao sto sam spominjao i jos nesto sto niste komentarisali kad su objavljeni letovi za JFK .
Sto se ne javite meni licno ne znam cega se bojite
Marko, kad je došao ATR rekao si da će do novembra da dođe još jedn ili dva. Gde su? I nije to prvi biser ovde. Po tebi je Austrian gubitaš, A330 već let od marta, i to za Peking... Dete čemu to?
DeleteOT: State of the used B777 market (http://tinyurl.com/nsglrgm) and ASL Hiring ((http://tinyurl.com/nnkh3md)
ReplyDeleteThis morning I ran across and interesting Flightglobal analysis about the state of used widebody market. I know ASL’s plans involve A330 but apparently collapse of Transaero as well as some other factors are causing glut in the market. If one can trust this, 10 year old B772 can be purchased for $10M. For a bird that likely cost in the $200M range this is chip change. Again, I know that these are different markets and you can’t compare A330 and B777 directly but I’m sure it has some influence. Even the text aludes that A330 market is no better. So, considering ASLs NA plans, this might be an added bonus.
Also, next couple of weekends, ASL is having hiring days where they plan to find 100 new FAs.. I’m wondering what % of this is replacement of those who left (there was a lot of talk about bad working environment recently). This could give us a fairly good idea if they have nay additional plans beyond announced NYC flights.
Air Serbia will pay 6$ million a year for the leased A330.
Deleteto SM 233.....a little off topic.Aegean Is also taking in applications for FA's. Came across it while trying to familiarize myself with .Aegean.They are looking for summer of 2016
Delete6$ million a year for a leased A330 leased A330?!?!?!?
DeleteThat is insane! They can BUY a 777-200E which holds 50-60 more passengers with just 20 months worth of lease rates for the also used A332 from Jet!
If that amount of 6 million $ for just one year is true thrn EY is really milking JU for everything they can.
I wouldn't look at the $500K figure as anything relevant. This came from a politician and we all know how reliable their information is. Also, we all know that lease price depends on a lot of factors and mainly supply and demand. I was just trying to point out that this might be a good moment to lease wide body.
DeleteWhy pay 6 million dollars every year to lease an A332 when you can buy a much bigger 772 for only 10 million?
DeleteIf JU pays anything close to 6 million a year to lease the A332 someone is getting rich at its expense.
Onaj ko nece odmah da radi D chekove.
DeleteOn 6-7 year olds A332's how long away do you think is the D check? 2 years? 3 tops....
Deleteon average next should be in 4-5 years.
Deletehere's an interesting news:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.politika.rs/scc/clanak/344147/Ekonomija/Vecernji-Er-Srbija-ulazi-u-trku-za-Kroacija-Erlajns
...imas juce raspravu na tu temu.
DeleteOT: Volotea has it's plane in Belgrade right now (https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/v75991/#8172191).
ReplyDeleteMaybe it means new seasonal flights from/to Belgrade?
Basketball team Real Madrid to play against Red Star
DeleteRarely any of ASL route is really profitable and I pretty sure ASL will make more money on AT72 route from Nis to Vienna then routes such as Abu Dhabi, New York or Tel Aviv which are more political and less profitable then any other route in their network.. Making HUB of Belgrade is like making my grandmother miss if the world..
ReplyDeleteI would like to order a glossy, large format coffee table book with ex yu aviation gems like this comment. It would make an entertaining conversation starter for every airline enthusiast.
Delete