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| New York - Zagreb flights most desired |
The CEO and founder of TAV Airports Holding and TAV Construction, Sani Sener, believes flights from the Croatian capital to New York would currently be most desirable. TAV has a 15% stake in the joint venture running Zagreb Airport and also operates Macedonia's two international airports. Commenting on its operations, Mr Sener said, "The most desired route from Zagreb would be New York. Our partnership with Aéroports de Paris [which has a 38% stake in TAV], as we expected, has started bearing many fruits. The first and foremost of these is of course the addition of Zagreb Airport to our portfolio. This concession gives us another strong foothold in emerging Europe. On the other hand, Skopje is already a successful Wizz Air base, but we think there is considerable opportunity for more low cost operators".
Zagreb Airport attempted to initiate flights to the Big Apple four years ago, prior to the concession. The then Managing Director, Tonči Peović, held talks with North American Airlines over a potential two weekly service from JFK Airport to the Croatian capital starting May 2011. Mr Peović intended to waive landing and handling fees for North American over a five year period and for the flights to operate with a Boeing 757 or Boeing 767-300 aircraft. The aim of the service was to turn Zagreb into a regional transit hub, but talks between the two sides collapsed and the flights never materialised. Mr Peović noted that an average cabin load factor of 65% would have made the service profitable. North American Airlines has since ceased operations.
Earlier this year, the Ambassador of the United States to Croatia, Kenneth Merten, said his country is working towards establishing flights to Croatia, adding that the foundations for such services are currently being put in place. The last time Croatia had scheduled flights to the United States was during the summer of 1991, when Pan Am maintained four weekly nonstop roundtrips from New York to Zagreb with its Airbus A310 aircraft. Prior to that, JAT Yugoslav Airlines maintained services from Zagreb to New York, Chicago and Los Angeles. Croatia recorded 255.592 visitors from the United States last year, 42.005 of which stayed in Zagreb. There are currently no flights between the former Yugoslavia and the United States, although Air Serbia plans to launch services from Belgrade to New York next June. Croatia Airlines' CEO, Kreišimir Kučko, previously said his airline aims to begin long haul flights sometime in the future. "The dream is to one day add long haul flights to our network. That’s a long way off at the moment but it’s good to have something to aim for and we are building our airline to make it possible”, Mr Kučko said.
I think Dubrovnik beeds that service more
ReplyDeleteDelta could run those seasonal flights, similar to the ones to Venice.
DeleteWhat Zagreb needs is Wizz.
ReplyDeleteNE!!!! Evo što sam napisao prije par mjeseci:
DeleteZagrebu opako treba NTT, o tome uopće ne treba trošiti vrijeme, to svi znamo. Trenutno postoje tek četiri cjelogodišnje linije (Germanwings 3 i flyDubai), a još tri su sezonske (Vueling, Norwegian i Germanwings). Situacija je više nego loša. I to motivira putnike da lete iz nekog od obližnjih aerodroma koji su velike baze NTT i do kojih se od Zagreba autoputom dolazi za 3 sata (Venecija, Budimpešta, Beč, Bratislava, Graz, Treviso, Trieste, Zadar, Split, Beograd).
Ovo je odlično vrijeme za baziranje NTT. Zagrebu treba NTT, putnika ima, putnici ne žele putovati iz gradova u krugu 400 km, ako se sada bazira jedan avion isto bi moglo funkcionirati i na starom, kapacitetima limitiranom terminalu (još uvijek ne bi bio kaos), a otvaranjem novog terminala za godinu i pola taman bi se prijevoznik pozicionirao i mogao širiti razvoj baziranjem drugog ili više aviona.
No postavlja se pitanje koji bi prijevoznik bio najbolji za Zagreb? Ovo je moj odabir od najlošije opcije do najbolje:
9. NIKI je premalena kompanija koja se još uvijek traži, pitanje je što će sa njima biti u kontekstu Air Berlina koji je u totalnoj banani. Lete samo iz VIE i imaju samo 22 aviona i gotovo da se uopče više ne šire. NIKI nikako ne bi bio dobra opcija za nas, no mislim da oni ni nemaju potencijala da se šire.
8. Ryanair ima veliku prednost što su najveći i šire se ko poplava, ali imaju jako loš proizvod, odbojni su putnicima, ukrcaj i sve ostalo je kao na stočnom sajmu, same destinacije su loše (najčešće sekundarni i čak tercijalni aerodromi), lako se povlače iz tržišta, ucjenjuju zračne luke i to na jedan perfidan sustavni način. Tim ucjenama koje idu i iza granice isplativosti uspjeli su uništiti velik broj aerodroma.
7. Volotea je novi igrač na tržištu, ima tek 20 aviona i 6 baza. Nevjerovano je da leti sa 717-200, avionom kojeg svi odbacuju. Kompanija traži nichu, tj. otvara one linije koje drugi odbace ili čak i ne pokušavaju otvoriti. Cijela priča je puno previše riskantna i ne vidim puno šanse za opstanak ove kompanije.
6. Wizzair je specijalist za Istočnu Europu. Dobra strana je što su relativno lojalni zračnoj luci i sa njom surađuju sve dok zračna luka ne promjeni pravila igre (privilegije). Linij su logične, no isto kao i Ryanair lete na sekundarne aerodrome. Proizvod je bolji od Ryanaira ali su poznati po tome da potpuno zapostavljaju putnike, pa nije neuobičajno da čekate na aerodromu par dana da bi dobili informaciju što sa otkazanim letom. Maleni su i daleko više riskiraju (Ukrajina, baze u nevjerovanim gradovima poput Tuzle, letovi za Niš), pa je pitanje dana kada će uči u sukob sa velikim igračima (Ryan, easy, Germanwings...) što će vjerovatno rezultirati naglim nestankom (kao što se to desilo SkyEurope). Bili u Zagrebu i povukli se. Imaju nekoliko baza u neposrednoj blizini što nije dobro.
5. Transaero je malena kompanija sa tek 55 aviona i 6 baza, no prednost je što imaju dvije glavne baze na ADPI koji je suvlasnik ZAG. Loša strana je što rade u sjeni Air Francea i KLM-a i zapravo su njihov alat za ubijanje AF-KLM konkurencije, tj. nisu potpuno neovisni u razvoju. Najvili su otvaranje baza izvan Nizozemske i Francuske.
4. Vueling je jak IAG-ov igrač kojem potpuno puštaju slobodu razvoja. Sa 101 avionom i 16 baza, te 40 naručenih aviona još uvijek nisu previše veliki, no obzirom da iza njih stoji IAG kompanija ima nevjerovatnu perspektivu. Otvaraju baze i izvan Španjolske, lete i na primarne aerodrome, imaju logičan odabir linija i uspjeli su istisnuti i največe sa nekih aerodroma (Ryanair i EasyJet).
3. Eurowings sa svojim najavama bi mogao biti dobra opcija. Prvenstveno zbog toga što je ZAG zapravo Lufthansin fokus grad i što bi Lufthansa na taj način umanjila potencijale konkurencije, a tome Eurowings zapravo i služi, ali i zbog ogromne dijaspore i poslovnih putnika na relaciji Hrvatska-Njemačka. Konačno Lufthansa je najavila otvaranje baza izvan Njemačke, što samo znači da je Zagreb sigurno jedan od prvih prioriteta. Loša strana je upravo to da je Eurowings samo alat i da oni nikada ne bi otvarali linije koje bi i malo mogle naštetiti Lufthansi. U tom svjetlu širokotrupci koje će Eurowings imati nikada neće slijetati u Zagreb pa čak i da Zagreb postane ogromna Eurowingsova baza.
Delete2. EasyJet svakako jest dobar, ima dobru uslugu, linije, nije odbojan poput Ryanaira, ne ucjenjuje zračnu luku. No, EasyJet je došao, probao sa par linija i iz nekog razloga se povukao. Prednost je što je suvlasnik ZAIC-a istovremeno jedna od najvećih baza easyJeta (ADPI) što bi svakako pomoglo u pregovorima. ADPI bi tu mogao sa jako malo napora nagovoriti easyJet da bazira jedan avion, a u slučaju dobrih uvjeta nakon otvaranja novog terminala tržište bi natjeralo easyJet na baziranje dodatnih aviona.
1. Norwegian je po meni daleko najbolji izbor. Kompanija je dovoljno mala da se još uvijek posvečuju svojim bazama, no dovoljno velika da su ozbiljan igrač. Sa 103 aviona i 17 baza svakako nisu zanemariv igrač. Baze imaju i izvan Skandinavije (Bangkok, Barcelona, Ft. Laudardale, Las Palmas, London LGW, Madrid, Malaga, New York JFK, Tenerife). Imaju daleko najbolji proizvod od svih NTT, pouzdan su igrač, logična im je ekspanzija, nemaju bazu u našoj blizini i totalno su nepokriveni na ovom prostoru (tek pokoji sezonski let u regiji). Najveća im je prednost što imaju 8 širokotrupaca (787) i još 11 naručenih, pa ne bi bilo nevjerovatno da otvore i transatlantski let za Zagreb (JFK u svakom slučaju ne bi bio rizičan), a možda i par letova za Bangkok. Od sadašnjih destinacija u SAD-u ni jedna druga nije realna (Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Boston, Ft.Lauderdale, Orlando), no ako u budućnosti otvore Chicago, Washington ili Kanadu (Toronto i Montreal) tu bi svakako moglo biti kruha. Posebna je prednost što su najavili otvaranje baze u Središnjoj i Istočnoj Europi.
Is Zagreb the only European capital city NOT to receive budget flights from the UK ?
DeleteNije UN u vlasnistvu AF-KL zar ne mislite tu na HV ?
DeleteINN-NS
Naravno, Marko, na Transaviu, a ne Tranasaero, lapsus...
DeleteZnas, sve fino i lepo pises, i onda lupis nesto nalik ovom:
Delete".. pa je pitanje dana kada će uči u sukob sa velikim igračima (Ryan, easy, Germanwings...) što će vjerovatno rezultirati naglim nestankom (kao što se to desilo SkyEurope).. "
Jednostavno te ne mogu shvatati ozbiljno posle ovoga. Imas interesantan pogled na stvari i sa strategiske strane verovatno mozes i do sutra, ali brate, finansije ti nisu jaca strana. Bez toga se ne moze. Daj provedi malo vremena na CAPA-i.
Purgeru uglanom se slažem sa većinom tvojih stavova, ali pomalo je prepotentno nazivati Niš i Tuzlu "neverovatnim gradovima za letenje". To pomalo vredja, a uz to su load factori u oba slučaja i bolji nego što su ovi iz W6 planirali. Oba aerodroma ove godine obaraju svoje rekorde uz dobru perspektiv rasta. Razlog je što su NTT idealno rešenje za sve postosocijalističke zemlje, bez obzira koliko su razvijene, jer omogućuju jednostavnu i jeftinu konekciju radnicima u dijaspori i turistima i to INI i TZL najbolje pokazuju.
DeleteМирославе ово једноумље подразумева да дијаспора и туристи постоје само у земљама Западне Европе што није истина. Пословни људи који преферирају главне аеродроме уместо оне који су 100км од града, путници из малих места који морају да путују преко конекција на чвориштима, путници од Источне Европе до Источне Европе коју Визз игнорише, путници са других континената уопште не занимају Визз и сличне. Зато Визз није решење.
DeleteMali input: Wizz ignorise trzista sa slabom plateznom moci. Ko god otvori takvu liniju ce samo gubiti novac. Da ponovim - cash is king, ne bi gubio vreme u raspravi koja ignorise taj kljucni aspekt.
DeleteInput 2: LF nije bolji, isti je. Pri varijabilnim cenama LF se uvek moze nastelovati da odgovara dogovorenom obrtu putnika. Vaznija mera je rps (revenue per seat), i glavno je pitanje dali je rps bolji od ocekivanog ili ne, a to ne mozes znati bez veoma detaljne i potpune analize LF-a, cena i odgovarajuce krive potraznje.
Anon 5:06 PM
DeleteMi ne možemo znati većinu tih podataka jer su ti podaci poslovna tajna, ali možemo znati berzanske izveštaje koji jasno govore da Wizzu svake godine rastu profit i tržišna kapitalizacija. Naravno da dobijaju oni veliku lovu kroz subvencije na većini aerodroma ali se jasno vidi proporcija izmedju njihovog broja prevezenih putnika i ukupnog prihoda kompanije. A vlasti koje ih subvencionišu znaju zašto to rade. LCC su idealno rešenje za naše područje za sada, promet legacy saobraćaja je usko povezan sa ekonomskim rastom koji je u ovom regionu trenutno medju najnižima u svetu.
Miroslave, danas se leti sa niza aerodroma sa kojih se prije 10 godina nije moglo niti sanjati da će ikada išta poletjeti. I nisu tu samo Tuzla i Niš kao primjer, nego i brdo aerodroma poput Castres-Mazame, Carssone, Rodez, Aurrilac, Gloucestershire, Derry, Anglesey, Emden, Kassel... Da stvar bude bolja više ne lete sa njih samo LCC, nego npr. u minijaturnim francuskim aerodromima leti Airfrance (HOP!).
DeleteE sad zašto sam to rekao u tom kontekstu, zato što je mnogo primjera gdje su "riskantne" LCC nakon što su iz mrtvila izvukle neke aerodrome i doslovce broj putnika sa nule popele na 100-200.000 ucjenjivali te iste aerodrome do te mjere da su aerodromi morali raskinuti ugovore sa njima i bankrotirali. Ne znam jel vam poznat slučaj sa aerodromom Pau u Francuskoj koji nije podlegao ucjenama Ryanaira i nakon što se Ryanair povukao ostali su u potpunosti bez putnika (prethodno su uložili brdo novaca). Kasnije ih je "izvukao" Air France pokrenuvši letove za Pariz i dvije-tri destinacije. Takvih se treba bojati, a među njima su najgori Ryanair i Wizzair. Iz istog razloga su se povukli iz Zagreba, smanjili broj zrakoplova u Beogradu, a nebojte se da će to učiniti bilo kome, pa i Skopju kada neće dobivati ono što misle da su zaslužili. U svojoj kratkoj povijesti ukinuli su 37 destinacija.
Anonymous 2:22
DeleteLufthansa je još 2005. rekla da će u Europi opstati tek 3 velika prijevoznika (alijanse, tj. LH/Star, AF/Sky, BA/oneworld), te 3 do 4 LCC (ja danas vidim da šanse imaju Ryan, Easy, Norwegian, te Vueling, Tranavia i Eurowings samo zato što ih podržavaju veliki igrači). A to znači da će veliki požderati malene kao što su to i do sada činili:
- Ryanair (Sky Europe, bmibaby, Buzz)
- EasyJet (flyglobespan, go!)
- Norwegian (Sterling, Transavia Denmark, FlyMe, FlyNordic)
I tu nisam naveo kompanijice koje su imale po par aviona, a koje su šaptom pale. Večina gore napisanih kompanija su imale preko 20 aviona, dobar dio i preko 30, a u vrijeme kada su uništene ni Ryan, ni Easy nije bio ni blizu toliko jak koliko je danas. Neke su samo uništene, a neke su preuzete.
Dakle:
- Ryanair ima 321 avion, naručenih ima 253
- EasyJet ima 219 aviona, naručenih 185
- Norwegian ima 103 aviona, naručenih 269
- Vueling ima 101 avion, 40 naručenih, u vlasništvu BA/IB
Što mislite gdje će oni zaposliti tih
Što mislite kamo će tih 750 avona koji dolaze u kratkom periodu.
Može li Wizza sa flotom od 62 aviona opstati kada veliki odluče udariti, kao što su to učinili u prijašnjim slučajevima. A morat će udariti jer više nemaju baš previše gdje se širiti. Već su i međusobno krenuli ratovati (Ryan i Easy se kolju na 10 velikih baza, a Ryan je napao i na 3 najveće EasyJetove baze).
Hopefully these flights could happen in the future, it could work at least during the summer season and maybe for Christmas holidays!
ReplyDeleteFirst we will take Manhatten then we will take Berlin ☺
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtoFqHcvMDw
Delete:) :)
It's telling when such statements come from minority owner and not from majority owner.
ReplyDeleteIt will be fun to watch those who described Air Serbia JFK route as "not profitable" and "vanity project" now trying to justify and support this Zagreb New York statement.
ReplyDeleteI don't think you can compare the two. Zagreb would be operated seasonally by some charter airline and that would be it.
DeleteBEG was related to Air Serbia, a small regional airlines, acquiring a widebody aircraft to launch transatlantic flights.
Do you see the difference?
There are 4 possibilities for those flights to be profitable:
Delete1. Seasonal charter, once per week with some charter company. Just tourist, no regular passengers and connections. Like Air Transat which start flights to ZAG in 2016.
2. One of huge USA companies like United, American or Delta which have connection to USA/Canada/Mexico… and possibility to be feet by Croatia Airlines.
3. Norwegian to open LCC base in ZAG and in same time to open 3-4 flights per week to JFK with 787 that is based in JFK.
4. Singapore to change stop on SIN-JFK from FRA to ZAG. That would be more than intelligent (ZAG is much cheaper, there are passenger to JFK from region and also to SIN with best possible connections to Australia, FRA already have lot of flights to JFK, other USA destinations, and to SIN).
Everything else, including Croatia Airlines flights have no chance at all!
Singapore to change stop on SIN-JFK from FRA to ZAG
DeleteROFL
I cannot believe you actually wrote this
Do you have ANY idea how many pax between FRA and NYC choose SQ because of their superior business and first class product compared to LH, let alone US carriers? You're seriously suggesting to switch that A380 to ZAG which has low to no premium traffic?
I really dislike personal attacks of any kind, but this idea is so ridiculous on so many levels that I couldn't help it. No idea how you pass for an aviation consultant.
Yeah, so many, and that is why Singapore will stop with those flights in 2017 and will fly it non-stop!!!!
DeleteArguments:
1. ZAG is now much cheaper then FRA, and for sure in that case they would give them everything for free. Isn't that good argument to gap financial difference because of premium passengers?
2. In ZAG they would have no competition. In FRA they have competition to JFK by Lufthansa, Delta and United. Also there are dozens everyday flights to USA from FRA, non from ZAG and region.
3. On FRA-SIN route there is 4 flights per day + flights to other destination in Southeast Asia + flights to SIN from other LH airports. On ZAG and wide region there are no flights to Southeast Asia.
4. Connections to Australia from SIN would be used by huge Croatian Diaspora, the same thing as flights to USA + tourists (you do know that there are more than 150.000 tourist per year that comes from Korea, China, Australia, Japan, Taiwan…) just in ZAG? To Croatia much more.
5. Croatia is partner in Star Alliance what makes it best option as feeder and code-share partner. Of course not as LH, but for this region for sure is good option (PUY, ZAD, SPU, DBV, SJJ, SKP, PRN + in that case more potentials to open TGD, OMO, TIA, TZL, INI).
6. Singapore fly to many destination in Europe (CPH, CDG, DUS, MUC, FRA, ATH, MXP, FCO, AMS, DME, BCN, ZRH, IST, LHR, MAN), why not to ZAG as they don't fly to any airport in region? And if there is chance to fly to ZAG wouldn't it be less risk to fly SIN-ZAG-JFK? Isn't that good way to fight against MEB3 which kills them also?
The only way Zagreb can get flights to the US is with a HOP! in Belgrade.
DeleteI'm sure you're already used to it.
Purger, thanks for the laugh. To even put ZAG and FRA in the same sentence is completely bonkers.
DeleteOn one hand it's the second most important financial centre in Europe and one of the biggest airline hubs in the world, on the other it's a medium-sized capital of a small developing country. Just when we thought that INN-NS is the craziest one on this blog.
DeleteI would love to see Singapore Airlines is Zagreb. They are one of the best airlines to fly and the Star alliance connection makes sense but I think if Singapore did ever chose to continue to NY via a non major European stop, they would play the safer option and chose an airport like Warsaw for example or Prague.
DeleteBy that standard I am so surprised that any airline flies to Zagreb at all. They should al fly to Frankfurt instead.
DeleteCome on, I did not say that Singapore would stop to fly to FRA and will move all their FRA flights to ZAG. You do know that Singapore has 4 flights per day to Germany + LH code-share flights?
I just say that if ZAG can attract them with huge subventions and discounts to open their 16th route to Europe to ZAG it will be less risk to open it as stop to JFK. Their FRA stop to JFK is very illogical to me. So big competition on the route from several companies, and if they have to make stop there are so many more logical options.
Q400 of course ZAG here is not so attractive as PRG or WAW. But in same time in PRG and WAW they have competition of flights to JFK. Also, I am sure that they can be motivated to start to fly to ZAG just with huge subventions, for sure not just because of potential passengers. It is all about mathematics. But for sure with subventions from ZAIC and TZGZ Singapore have more chance to make those flights than Delta, United, American, or even Norwegian. So if I would spent money for those flights I would put my money on Singapore.
DeleteAnon at 9:44
Delete"Zagreb would be operated seasonally by some charter airline and that would be it."
That's not what TAV CEO said.
nemojmo zaboraviti da je Zagreb tri puta manji od Beograda i da MZLZ predstavlja mali aerodrom sa beznacajnim brojem operacija ne samo na evropskom vec i na regionalnom nivou. ako je vec jasno da je OU u gotovo neresivoj krizi, treba se pozicionirati ka regionalni aerodrom koji ce hraniti par hubova u Evropi, a USA je samo utopija.
DeleteJo*ote ovo je kao da BEG ima nekih 4-5 puta više putnika od ZAG, kao da je ravan sa FRA, CDG ili LHR. I ZAG i BEG su beznačajni. BEG gotovo da nema bitne EU kompanije koja leti na njega (BA, AF, KL, IB, SK, SN, TP..), ima tek nešto više linija i niti duplo više putnika. Interesira me odakle vama takva prepotencija? Za prepotenciju treba biti bar u nekoliko stvari superioran... Ne vidim baš nikakvog razloga za nju?
DeleteSIA nece prestati sa rutom SIN-FRA-JFK,letove koji ce biti nostop bice iskljucivo u prvoj i biznis klasi.A pozdrav strucnjaku koji poziva SIA da angazuje A388 da leti za ZAG.Proglasice te za preduzetnika i invoatora godine.
DeleteKako god, tko kaže da je nužno da se ta linija leti sa A388. Isto tako linija SIN-ZAG nije glupa, još manje je glupa linija SIN-ZAG-JFK. Ja sam argumente iznio, a vi niste iznjeli niti jedan demantija mojih argumenata ili protuargument, već smatrate da je dovoljno reči "to je glupost", svaka čast to ja zovem debatom ala piljarica. Kako se linija SIN-FRA-JFK pretvara u nonstop SIN-JFK i ovako je se ukida stop u FRA, što znači da im ti "silni" poslovni putnici nisu ni presudni, ni bitni.
DeleteStop u FRA se ukida jer je takav bio LH uslov za joint venture koji rade sa SQ. Van tog političkog dela priče, gornja paluba SQ leta je uvek bila prepuna.
DeleteDon't Croatia have a bigger diaspora in the US and Canada than Serbia?
DeleteOdakle vam ovo da je to bio uvjet? Ja to stvarno nigdje nisam pročitao, a redovno pratim desetke stručnih izvora. Da to LH smetalo ne bi imali code-share na legu FRA-JFK, a imaju ga.
DeleteUostalom i da je tako, tim bolja prilika za nekog drugog, zašto ne i ZAG?
Yes Croatia has much bigger diaspora in USA and Canada than Serbia by USA census and by data of Serbian and Croatian ministries.
I wonder which airline would be potentially interested in operating JFK-ZAG flights
ReplyDeleteNone of them.
DeleteIf they will have translatlantic flights before BEG (referring Toronto) why they no to have flights to JFK?
DeleteOzbiljno mislim da exYu przi majmune sa ovakvim tekstovima, dva leta nedeljno u letnoj sezoni je maksimum koji mozete dobiti. Pre DBV nego Zagreb.
ReplyDeleteApsolutno se slažem da za turističke chartere i DBV i SPU imaju više šanse i logike nego ZAG. No, za redovne letove ZAG nema previše šanse ali nije nevjerovatno (tu i SPU i DBV nemaju šanse). Uz koordiniranu akciju Turističke zajednice Zagreba, Grada Zagreba i Zračne luke Zagreb, te uz financiranje ove linije ista bi se mogla desiti (američka firma, Norwegian ili Singapore).
DeleteDa, sigurno šapuno Seneru da kaže ovo za NYC.
DeleteNaravno nemojmo zanemariti činjenicu da Turistička zajednica Zagreba radi jako mnogo na dovođenju turista u Zagreb i to posebno prekooceanskih. Ako su uspjeli dovuči chartere iz Koreje i Japana, te desetke tisuća turista iz Kine, Taiwana, Australije, SAD-a, Kanade, ne bi me začudilo da ulože ogroman novac za pokretanje charter linije (barem sezonske) ili čak nešto više od toga.
DeleteStvari koje su bile nezamislive prije samo 4-5 godina danas je nevjerovatno uspješna Zagrebačka turistička zajednica napravila realnim i svakodnevnim. Primjerice kreće redovna linija za Toronto iako iz Zagreba za Toronto ima daleko manje potencijalnih putnika i daleko manje turista nego iz New Yorka primjerice.
A Sener je jako bitan?
DeleteMogu da naprave odlican ugovor sa ASL za letove za JFK koja nudi 5 pw samo sa jednim malim presedanjemu Regionu.
ReplyDeletePosto cisto sumnjam da je neko od DL,UA,AA zaintresovan .
INN-NS
ASL će za JFK poletati oko 17:00 lokalno tako da bi putnici iz Zagreba trebalo da provedu 6 sati u Beogradu na aerodromu pre nastavka puta. Nije baš atraktivno ako se uporede konekcije koje nudi Star Alliance ?
Delete@INN-NS isto je da li presedali u BEG, FRA, MUC, CDG...
Delete@AnonymousDecember 17, 2015 at 11:47 AM, sta ti lupas? Odakle si lupio ovo vreme molim te? Trenutno red letenja za JFK nije nikom poznat jer se ceka odgovor sa JFK-a o vremenu kada bi ASL mogla da uzme slot!
It would make much more operational and economical sense for the flight to be BEG-ZAG-JFK and return as JFK-ZAG-BEG.
DeleteNije to samo stvar konekcije. To je i dodatnih 2 sata leta jer se vrača na istok pa ponovo na zapad, što stvar i poskupljuje i produžuje.
DeleteIstovremeno potencijalni putnik ima iz ZAG opcije preko:
- FRA
* LH
* OU code-share sa UA
- MUC
* LH
* OU u code-share sa UA
- VIE
* OS
- ZRH
* LX
* OU u code-share sa UA
- LHR
* BA
* OU u code-share sa UA
- AMS
* KL
* OU u code-share sa UA
- CDG
* AF
* OU u code-share sa UA
- CPH
* SK
* DY
* OU u code-share sa SK
- BRU
* SN
* OU u code-share sa UA
- WAW
* LO
- LIS
* TP
- PRG
* OK u code-share sa DL
- MAD
* IB
- još su moguće (ne i konkurentne) konekcije i preko FCO, ATH i BCN
a ako se već ide na istok onda su tu
- IST sa TK
- SVO sa SU
Uz to u krugu 350 km (3 sata vožnje) imaš direktne letove za JFK iz VIE i VCE
I iskreno mi reci, misliš da tu BEG i ASL imaju šanse kao konkurencija?
Imaju ako cena bude u redu i ako ne ostane na samo jednoj liniji plus Etihad alijansa koja jedna drugoj pruza pomoc.
DeleteA sad mi vi objasniti kako ZAG moze da ima sansu pored tolikog broja linija i konekcija za letove za JFK.?
INN-NS
Objasnite .
DeleteINN pa i nema neku šansu ako ne utuku puste milijune EUR u subvencioniranje iste. Bez ogromne svote novaca ZAG neće imati letove za JFK (osim možda jednog charter leta tjedno tijekom top sezone za turiste kao što je slučaj Air Transata, Koreana, JAL-a...).
DeleteA što se tiće motivacije cijenom, pa naravno da u će u tom slučaju ljudi letjeti sa Air Serbijom. Ili misliš da ja letim sa Air Serbijom jer mi je draže letjeti preko BEG nego preko VIE, FRA, MUC? Ali pitam te INN kolko je to da bi motiviralo putnike:
- za JFK možeš dobiti kartu već za 450 EUR, koliko bi morala biti karta sa JU da bude motivirajuća. 350 EUR, mislim da bi!
- mogu li sa 350 EUR biti profitabilni i ne gubiti milijune EUR mjesečno poglavito što imaju dodatnih troškova od dva sata leta više (prema istoku pa nazad na zapad) i što je u startu njima skuplje letjeti nego velikim igračima koji imaju desetke širokotrupaca i daleko manje troškove po jedinici (čak i kada uklakuliramo jeftiniju radnu snagu u Srbiji). Dakle sa višim troškovima trebaju biti jeftiniji da bi privukli putnike. Zaključak????
Cisto sumnjam da je karta 450 konstantno.
DeleteAko je karta sa ASL 400-430 eur letece vecina posto kad uzmemo u obzir da vecina putnika ne zna Geografiju i da ne znaju kojim Avionom lete .
Pritom uz TK ima jednu od najboljih usluga na svojim letovima i to je najvaznije i jos nekoliko stvari.
INN-NS
INN-NSDecember 17, 2015 at 1:36 PM
Delete+1 INN :D
Smart kid. Kudos for this one.
Purger, the one hour ATR flight is negligible. The lower costs of Air Serbia both in the air (crew wages) and at home make them not more expensive to operate than OS via VIE as a minimum.
DeleteYour argument completely fails with TK which adds a minimum 5 hour flight but they've been taking huge loads of pax from ZAG to North America.
DeleteI don't think JU will try to connect ZAG with their JFK flights. ZAG and LJU fall under the 'West and North' departure wave, meaning along with CDG, AMS, FRA etc, all of which is not suitable to connect via BEG to JFK. Also JFK will possibly fall under the 'West and North' wave.
DeleteHowever, slight adjustments to the 'East and South' departures and JU will go for:
- SJJ
- BNX
- TGD
- TIV
- DBV
- SPU
- PUY
- SKP
- TIA
- SKP
- SKG
- ATH
- SOF
- OTP
Hypothetically an average of 5 pax transfer from these flights transfer to JFK, from the 14 flights gives 70 pax. Lets say the config is 250 seats on the A330, that leaves 180 seats for BEG. Lets say average load ex BEG at 70%, gives 126 for BEG to fill 5 x p/w which is realistic. Average load of 196 pax is 78.4% CLF which is ok, considering we are looking at small numbers on both transit and O&D.
I do see AZ and JU expanding again their codeshare, which could feed the flight to compliment their morning departures to JFK with an afternoon flight via BEG.
To talk on ticket prices is ridiculous as that dictates basic economics of supply and demand. Lets also factor in that transit will be different to O&D.
As well, TGD, TIV, SKP, TIA, PUY, BNX and SJJ don't have much choice on JFK, DBV and SPU some what but JU would be the most ideal carrier time wise. This is where ASL Cargo could do quite well, and cargo continues to grow strong in JU. The rest except maybe SKG have decent amount of options.
Lets not leave out people from Timisoara, Srpska and Slavonija who as well make their journey to BEG to travel.
Let's not let out IST, BEY, TLV...
Delete^^^
DeleteOTP and SKG would barely fit into a possible schedule let alone TLV and BEY. Take in mind BEG-JFK-BEG would be at least a 20 hour rotation, and BEG-BEY is over 3 hours.
With alternate/additional departures, which, of course, should have happened much before announcing flights to the US.
DeleteSKP has not much choice on JFK? I think TK, OS and LX (and AZ somewhat) are more then enough. JU will have to go very low pricewise to become an attractive option.
Delete@ anonymous 6,15pm
DeleteThere could be additional frequencies from JU. They do also intend to fly to PRN, which again goes into the 'East/South' wave. The midnight wave is not well utilized, and there is room for small growth with current capacity. ATR's lack which would be great for better reliability as well as more regional expansion ie: CLJ, OMO, ZAD, OHD, PRN where the ac would be suitable. Its been a while since JU expanded its offering.
@ anonymous 6,58pm
TK, OS and LX - star dominance.
TK can have long connecting times. LX is not daily. OS departs SKP at 4am. Most AZ flights don't connect to their JFK flights. Quick search for SKP shows that many 2 stop options are quicker than some 1 stop options. As well, quite a few 2 stop options include JU (ie: AF/JU via CDG and BEG). PRN has better offering compared to SKP, but again its star dominated (LH/OS/SK/TK).
SJJ is worse and practically has only TK and OS/LH, and prices starting around 700EUR. BNX would have only JU or drive to ZAG...and again connect via another European city.
INN-NS
DeleteNaravno da cijena nije konstantno 450 EUR, ali treba preživjeti tih 6 mjeseci kada je karta toliko. Slažem se da većina ljudi nema pojma geografiju, no zato imaju fobiju od svega što nije Delta, United, American, British, Iberia, Lufthansa, Air France i slične firme. Za njih je Croatia ili Air Serbia nešto tamo Rusko ili Afričko i sa time se ne leti. To ide na pedale i ruši se svaki dan. Upravo zato će se odlučiti za Air Serbiju tek i samo ako je bitno jeftinija. Pazi, na tako dugačak let i ja bih se odlučio za LH ili slične kompanije da su 100 EUR skuplje, zbog sigurnosti. I pritom ne mislim da bi se Air Serbija mogla srušiti ili nešto tako, nego radi mogućnosti rerutiranja i svih mogućih destrukcija u prometu, što je, nažalost, danas tako česta pojava (terorizam, štrajkovi, kvarovi, nevrijeme, poremečaj i ogramna kašnjenja...).
Anonymous 3:20
Not exactly. If you have 10 flights per day to JFK (as LH group has) all your costs in JFK would be much lower (petrol, handling, catering, hotel for crew, taxes maintenance...). Same thing is with buying planes and exploitation of them. In those costs cheaper crew is nothing to be mentioned.
Anonymous 3:25:
As I said it is all about price of ticket. TK today is reliable airline and usually 10-20% cheaper than competition. For sure that is good motivation, isn't it?
JATBEGMEL:
Exactly my point. I already mention that when I wrote about their strategy for connections.
Concerning FCO, they have 3 flights per day + 1 Delta code-share, and in MXP they have 2 flights per day. So, I have doubts that they will use combinations with JU.
Two interesting comments from two separate topics on JU's flights to the US:
Delete"eielef From Argentina, joined Oct 2007, 342 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted Tue Sep 29 2015 04:37:32 your local time (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6555 times:
Quoting BestWestern (Reply 11):
Belgrade could be a great little hub - both for South and Eastern Europe and with lower fares, the med basin and especially north east Europe (ukraine, moldova, etc) - which lacks connections to the US.
I deeply agree with you on that Belgrade is an amazing city, and the best hub for the former Yugoslavia plus Greece, Bulgaria and Romania (all of them but Greece without flights to the US). For the rest of Eastern Euope, they'd rather choose OS, LH or even LO than JU. And Air Serbia, in my opinion an amazing new airline (flew recently SVO-BEG), lacks connections to most eastern-Europe, as there are no flights, for instance, to the Ukraine. Never understood why, but they are not! Also PS doesn't fly between both countries. "
"roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 10626 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted Tue Dec 15 2015 19:19:45 your local time (1 day 21 hours 39 minutes ago) and read 2710 times:
Quoting B8887 (Reply 7):
This is not surprising. Unstable and/or poor countries fare some of the best yields in F/J in the industry. Sub-saharan traffic to countries such as Mali, Tchad, Niger, plus Angola, Afghanistan and others come to mind.
Unstable and poor countries do tend to have good yields. They also tend to have a higher percentage of people buying F and J tickets. In countries where there is a small or nonexistant middle class, there is less demand for economy. Only the very wealthy are flying or those traveling on some type of company business which tends to be first or business class more often. For example in the early 1990s, it would be common for Indian airlines to have 24 business class seats on a 737 or A320. Nowadays, they can't pull business class seats off the airplane fast enough since the middle class has exploded and those are the people who buy economy tickets. Many planes are now all economy and have 12 business class seats at the max. "
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6507471/
TK and long connections?
DeleteThis schedule is perfect!
TK1004 SKP-IST 9.15-11.50
TK1 IST-JFK 13.20-17.55
TK4 JFK-IST 13.40-6.20
TK1003 IST-SKP 7.45-8.20
PURGER
DeleteNiko nema fobiju zato sto ne znaju ni sa kojom kompanijom putuju.
Ovde u TUI karta za SYD ima varijanta da se vraca preko BEG do MXP tako da ne vidim da postoji jos fobija.
A ja licno nisam cuo da neko koristi IB do JFK a pogotovu iz ZAG ?
Pa po toj logici ne treba ni sa jednom kompanijom leteti pogotovu sa LH koja najvise strajkuje pa mi nije jasna stavka ili treba brodom ici privatnim.
INN-NS
INN očito mnogo toga nisi čuo. IB ima odlične veze sa JFK, tri dnevna leta (dva vlastita, jedan code-share sa Americanom).
DeleteMladiću danas
1. Rijetko tko kupuje kartu preko TUI-a, osim ako ne kupuje šire turističke aranžmane, već kupuje kartu ili na prevoznikovoj iternetskoj stranici, ili preko neke od stranica specijaliziranih za prodaju karata koje uvijek pokazuju prijevoznike.
2. Fobija je sve prisutna, poglavito kod Amerikanaca. O da, oni se teško odlučuju i za LH, BA, AF, nego prvenstveno za američke firme, a pogotovo se ne odlučuju za one tamo "ruske" ili tko zna kakve kompanije. Pa čoviječe za Francuze mi smo oni tamo istočnjaci, Hrvatska, Srbija, Bosna, Rumunjska, Bugarska, Moldova, Ukrajina... sve je to njima isto, egzotika. Za Amerikance mi smo Afrika. Kod nas nema struje, vode i nismo čuli za tenisice.
3. Po kojoj logici sinko? Osobno ako je ista cijena ja neću putovati sa LH. Osobni izbor, djelomično rezultiran i tim silnim štrajkovima. No, ozbiljno ti kažem ako bi cijena LH bila 100 EUR veća ja bi ih odabrao prije nego JU. Dakle, JU mora biti ozbiljno jeftinija.
Znam da imaju odlicne veze ali nikad nisam cuo da je neko iz EX YU sa njima leteo .
DeleteTo pod brojem 2 se ne slazem nikako znam nekoliko Amerikanaca i Engleza koji su bili u Srbiji i koji imaju samo reci hvale . Oni ne znaju ni gde se nalaze te zemlje a kamoli kojom kompanijom putuju . Ali mislim da se tu bolje razume G Aleksandar.
3 To je vas licni izbor ja gledam dali mi se dopada tip Aviona koji leti i kompanija ali niko ne gleda na to .
Jel znate sta stranaca leti sa ASL i nemaju fobiju .
INN-NS
A ti inače poznaješ strukturu putnika iz Hrvatske (ona jedina ima Iberijine letove za MAD i to iz DBV, SPU i ZAG, te Croatijine koja leti iz BCN za ZAG) i znaš koliki postotak putnika putuje sa kojom od kompanija koje imaju konekcije za JFK?
DeleteDa i ja znam nekoliko. Njih preko 120.000 godišnje posjeti Hrvatsku. No, mi govorimo o prosječnom Amerikancu koji ne zna ni gdje je Europa, a kamoli Hrvatska ili Srbija.
Sinko, ne mjeri europejca sa amerikancem. Amerikanac želi konekciju u Americi i letjeti sa američkom kompanijom! Oni "pustolovnijeg" duha se odlučuju za BA, AF, LH, IB, KL, AZ, VS, UX, EI, FI, DY, OS, LX, SN...
...SK, TK, TP...
DeleteDaleko manje njih je toliko "hrabro" da se odluči za LO, SU, PS, HY (Riga)...
Iskreno mi reci, u koju od tih kategorija oni stavljaju JU (američku, ovu prvu sa BA, AF, LH... ili ovu posljednju gdje je SU, PS, LO...).
1 Navedite mi molim vas jednu osobu koju poznajete da je letela sa IB za JFK iz ZAG ?
Delete2 Ja nigde nisam rekao da ce ASL oteti putnike LH ali hoce dobar deo Balkanskih i bivseg Uddsr ,ali naravno je potrebna nabavka jos RJ.
3 Sto se tice usluge BA, AF, LH ako ne i bolje a ovako SU, PS, LO
4 Ako hoce da budu konkurentni ne smeju stati na 1 A332.
INN-NS
1. Sinko moj ako ti ja sad napištem ovdje imena i prezimena mojih kolega i prijatelja, čak i jednog taekwondo kluba koji je tako letio što će ta imena tebi značiti?
Delete2. Ni ja to nisam rekao. Nismo raspravljali ni o balkanskim putnicima, nego o amerikancima koji bi se odlučili ili ne na ove letove.
3. Molim te napiši ovo na razumljivom srpskom, ovako stvarno ne mogu dokučiti što želiš reći
4. Ne mogu oni biti konkurentni ni sa 5 A332, te još 10 feeding aviona. Jednostavno konkurencija je ogromna a niche nema
OT:
ReplyDeleteIn 2009 prior the tender process for concession of the Macedonian airports Mr. Sener in an interview for A1 Macedonian national channel said that TAV would make Skopje Airport (SA) to compete not with Belgrade and Zagreb, but with Vienna airport in respect to the number of passengers and airlines served. He was also telling fairytales about SA becoming a regional hub and about transatlantic flights.
TAV only made SA a low cost hub for Wizzair which the entire concepts will blow like a soap balloon in 2 to 4 year after the subsidies end.
Still waiting for the new cargo airport (obligation as per the concession agreement) which was allegedly postponed due to the “weather conditions”. However, I truly believe the cargo airport shall be built promptly just prior the parliamentary elections next year since the ruling parties would require that kind of facility in order to transfer the honesty stolen money to the third country. Why via cargo airport? Because they were honestly working 24/7 for 10 years.
+1
DeleteIt is usually during interviews like this when the interviewee reveals interesting information about a topic that is not the primary purpose of the interview. He just revealed that SKP are after Ryanair, essentially. "[T]here is considerable opportunity for more low cost operators" he is quoted as saying. I predicted a few months ago that they were targeting FR to open CPH, however W6 just announced it. It could have been their attempt to keep FR out. It will be fascinating to see what does 2016-17 bring to the aviation in the region. If FR launches SKP flights, where will they fly from? Let's see.
Delete"TAV only made SA a low cost hub for Wizzair which the entire concepts will blow like a soap balloon in 2 to 4 year after the subsidies end."
Delete83% of Wizz Air's capacity from SKP does not enjoy subsidies any longer. Wizz is achieving the second best margin in Europe, closely trailing Ryanair. It's the FSCs that are choking. Do get educated on the matter before making silly claims like the above.
I have nothing negative towards W6. It was more about SKP becoming dependable on only one low cost airline which is totally opposite to the TAV’s statements in 2009.
DeleteHowever, thank you W6 for basing three airplanes in SKP and for having 50% market share.
It’s every capital city airport dream come true. We don’t need any other airlines. It’s always honor flying with you and sometimes I even feel like a human being.
If it wasn’t for the honest Government and TAV (which are both great visionaries) we wouldn’t have this holy low cost airport.
OT - Purger and others, what's the benefit for EY and 9W to switch their European hub to Amsterdam from Brussels instead of Air Berlin hubs or Alitalia's, Rome or Düsseldorf respectively?
ReplyDeleteJa znam da imaju jednu od najboljih saradnji sa KL .
DeleteCak KL neke Aziske destinacije leti sa stop over u AUH .
INN-NS
Apparantly both of KL's routes out of AUH (Muscat and Bahrain) are ending in March. Of course they will still continue flying AMS-AUH.
DeleteAMS/KL has superior connectivity to secondary UK airports where a lot of India bound passengers originate. EK and QR can't match that.
Delete1. Totally agree with Dečko. KL for 20 years now have superior connection to UK where you have so many Indians.
Delete2. AMS is much bigger hub than BRU.
3. AMS is SkyTeam and we all know how much Etihad collaborate with SkyTeam, especially with Air France and KLM. BRU is Star Alliance hub, even more LH hub (SN is partly owned by LH) and Etihad is in real war with LH.
[BREAKING]
ReplyDeleteAdria will start flying from Ljubljana to Cologne and from Pristina to London.
http://sierra5.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2411&Itemid=1
and from TIA to MUC
DeleteAdria is turning into "Lufthansa Balkan" or "Lufthansa CEE"
DeleteKakva je sudbina kompanija u regionu (YM, OU...) u konkurenciji sa Lufthansa Balkan i Etihad Balkan ?
DeleteDele istu sudbinu sa starletama: da se dobro udaju
DeleteAre they feeding Eurowings in CGN? Interesting!
Deletewould SKP-FRA be an option for them?
Instead of every US carrier flying half empty to ZRH, they cld hve started BEG or ZAG years ago.
ReplyDeleteFrom CH to New York we hve 8 daily flights ! and if I compare AAs pax figures to 15 years ago, I can tell you, even in June we hve flights with less than 100 passengers. The big difference to the YU market however is, that the load factor in Business Class is higher than in Coach class
Are you working on the ZRH airport?
DeleteYep ;-)
DeleteNice, well I hope to see one U*S based carrier in Zagreb in 2017, seasonal flights if possible. Zagreb needs to get its numbers up first, right now it is too small to attract major US Airliners.
DeleteHowever there's a massive demand, the figures for number of visitors to Croatia have been released for first 11 months.
http://www.mint.hr/default.aspx?id=28571
Basically 14 million visitors/tourists visited Croatia, around 300 000 from US, 80 000 From Canada, 270 000 from S. Korea, 220 000 from Japan. and so on.
Zagreb had 952 000 visitors and 1.65 million nights. 70 000 US Visitors visited Zagreb alone, This year Zagreb is expected to host around 1.04 million visitors, with 1.85 million nights, more than any major city in ex-YU, figures for 2016 are expected to improve by 11% and same for 2017.
In 2016 1.15 million visitors are expected and 2.0 million nights, and in 2017 1.27 million visitors and 2.25 million nights.
Well bellow major European city destinations, but solid for the regional cities.
Too many bigger markets ahead of Zagreb.
ReplyDelete