Ljubljana Jože Pučnik Airport is continuing in its attempt to secure flights from the Gulf, despite the ongoing coronavirus pandemic. The airport has been trying to negotiate services to the region for the past six years. In a recent interview to the “Večer” daily, the General Manager of Ljubljana Airport, Zmago Skobir, said, “We currently have seventeen airlines serving Slovenia. This includes carriers from all three of the major alliances in Europe: the groups focusing around Lufthansa, British Airways and Air France. These three carriers offer connections practically to the entire world, as well as competitive prices. The next one we want is one of the big Arab carriers. Either Emirates, Flydubai or Qatar Airways, which have so far offered very competitive connections to the Asian market".
The Slovenian government has also pursued talks with the United Arab Emirates over potential flights to Ljubljana. Just prior to the coronavirus pandemic, Mr Skobir said, “The East continues to be another big market for us which is mostly served through Turkish Airlines. In my opinion, we do need flights to the Arabian Peninsula, which would act as a transfer point to other destinations. These are primarily Dubai and Doha. We have been working hard on this matter over the past six years, and we expect progress very soon”. Almost all markets in the former Yugoslavia are linked to the Gulf, however, Emirates recently cancelled its service to Zagreb for the rest of the year due to the global health crisis, while both Qatar Airways and Flydubai have delayed their service resumption to Skopje until later on in the year.
Over the years, several airlines have expressed interest in linking the Gulf with Slovenia. In 2017, Qatar Airways' CEO, Akbar Al Baker, noted, "Ljubljana is being looked at. We have many destinations we plan to operate with our narrow-bodies". In 2018, the now-bankrupt Slovenian national carrier, Adria Airways, said, "Further afield we are looking at Dubai. Unfortunately, currently do not have the right aircraft with which we can fly there". Although the coronavirus pandemic has had an unprecedented impact on the aviation industry, it has also opened up new opportunities with some airlines quickly responding to new market conditions and launching new services.
Considering how EK and FZ have performed in ZAG, is there any chance LJU could get them? I highly doubt it.
ReplyDeleteEK was quite good performing in ZAG.
DeleteFor a few months a year...
DeleteZAG was EK's only seasonal destination. So much about "good performing".
DeleteIt was not great but it was quite good. It was their only seasonal destination because it is also the smallest one in Europe and one of the smallest ones in the world with direct EK flight (only Basrah and Victoria are smaller). At least it is the only destination it the region which can sustain Emirates and it was definetly the largest success in this region among new routes opened. At least ZAG is good at something...
DeleteIf Bratislava, which is next door to Vienna has flights to Dubai then there is really no excuse for Ljubljana.
DeleteWell I am really interested to know why you believe that ZAG can sustain EK more than for example OTP. We could speak about this topic only if EK started flying to OTP, SOF etc and then stopped flying there and continued for ZAG. Only in that case your claim would be supported by facts.
DeleteIt is for sure there are much other airports in the surrounding that could also sustain EK, but the question is only the amount of money EK received from certain airport to fly there.
@10.13 Bratislava also handles more passengers more than Ljubljana despite proximity of airports.
DeleteAnon 10:24
DeleteCan you please find a sentence where I said at 09:45 that ZAG can sustain Emirates more than OTP.
There is no success if EK kept on reducing ZAG all the time, even before corona.
DeleteI dont think that you will find that because I never wrote that but here is my explanation. For Emirates in this case, number of passangers werent important for them during launching operations to ZAG. Demand was. In comparasion to any other country in the exyu region, Croatia has far the largest numbers of tourist and that was important for Emirates. They knew that Croatia because of growing tourist numbers can only sustain their flights with often heavy premium configuration which is not easliy to fill on every flight. Croatia had 19 million tourist in 2019., 10 times more than Serbia and thats why they chose flying to ZAG than to any other destination in the region. Also important thing is economy and how much are people flying in their destinations. With flights to ZAG they are also covering Slovenia, two richest economies in the region where people can afford to fly more often than in other countries.
Delete^ If local salaries were important for them, they or Flydubai would be flying at this moment to either Zagreb or Ljubljana. Obviously it is not important to them.
DeleteIt is not easy to change timetable in the last second. I hope that you know that Emirates and Flydubai have no anything in common except same hubs and codeshares so they cannot just like that send different companies to operate these flights. Flydubai is not part of Emirates, so Emirates cannot do whatever they want in Flydubai, control their network or sending their aircraft where they want.
Delete"At least it is the only destination it the region which can sustain Emirates..."
DeleteYou did not specify what means region. For me region is Balkan Peninsula, for you it is ex Yugoslavia.
Do you know that there were rumours that EK first contacted BEG in ex-YU but it was instructed to BEG to delay reply to EK just to protect on that way EY/JU deal?
Croatia has the biggest tourism income in ex-Yu because only Croatia has so wide Adriatic coast. It is magnet number 1 to attract tourists from all over the world, but not all of them arrive by plane.
The biggest stimulator why EK as well KE decided to fly to ZAG was so called "udruzeno oglasavanje" fund where mostly foreign airlines receive bunch of money to open direct connection with ZAG. No other airport in the region does it.
I suppose that EK flights to Khartoum, Dar Es Salaam or Kabul could be also explained by rich economies of these countries or extra ordinary touristic demand.
Emirates flying to Belgrade was obstructed by their Austria manager who unfortunately also is/was responsible for the former Yugoslavia market .
DeleteHis opinion was that Belgrade should be served via Vienna .
When route planners in EK insisted on Belgrade he instead pushed for Zagreb .
Not every airport has the same reason why are flights opened there. Same is with Kabul, Mashad, Basrah, Baghdad, Khartoum... These cities for UAE are their region, where they have a huge numbers of people flying between two cities because of economical ties, a lot of people from these cities work there and Dubai is for them the best airport to transfer if you are going to the world. Thats why they have beter connectivity to Dubai then this region. Just look at Air Serbia or Croatia Airlines, why are they operating double daily flights to Skopje and Sarajevo but they dont have any flights to Porto, Coruna or Bilbao? Why? It is same reason as with Emirates in Kabul, Sarajevo and Skopje are their region but Porto and Bilbao are not. Thats why you will have Iberia rather flying in Coruna than in Skopje. Neighbouring coutries will always be good connected because of their close cultural and economical ties.
DeleteInteresting.
Delete"Croatia has the biggest tourism income in ex-Yu because only Croatia has so wide Adriatic coast. It is magnet number 1 to attract tourists from all over the world, but not all of them arrive by plane." That is true, but still you have larger demand in Croatia because of tourism than in any other regional country for Emirates flights. Im not sure is there any finanlcial help every year for these flights, but I know that these airlines got some kind of a support for a first year flying there. Same with American in Dubrovnik. Does someone has any source how much Croatia gives to these airlines and is there actualy any kind of a support every year given to Emirates, Korean etc.?
DeletePurger
Delete"Ma daj novac ide u daleko najvećem dijelu stranim kompanijama, potpuno ste u pravu. Zanemarivo mala količina istog ide Croatiji Airlinesu, ništa Trade Airu. I to je jedna od notornih gluposti ovih „udruženih oglašavanja“. Nemalo puta sam rekao da priča mora imati glavu i rep..."
https://tangosix.rs/2018/21/08/kolumna-alena-scurica-sarajevo-regionalni-centar-za-bliski-istok-tursku/
"Subvencioniranja Ryanaira (tzv. udruženo oglašavanje) je u Zadru kroz godine bilo od milijun do milijuna i pol EUR. "
https://tangosix.rs/2019/17/12/kolumna-alena-scurica-laudina-baza-u-zadru-ogroman-iskorak/
"U Hrvatskoj se trenutno sa višemilijunskim iznosima financiraju prijevoznici radi dovođenja turista (tzv. udruženo oglašavanje). Ovaj projekt financira sa 50% iznosa Hrvatska turistička zajednica, a jednako toliko novaca moraju dati lokalni turistički subjekti. "
https://tangosix.rs/2020/11/02/kolumna-alena-scurica-poraz-bitke-da-se-smanji-sezonalnost-na-jadranu/
Litarally every airport or coutry in the region is giving something to the airlines. It can be discounts for new routes, discounts for year round routes, PSO, support for the first year of operations, subventions for bases, "donations" to the national carriers... I really dont know on which airport airlines are not getting something... But does anyone knows how much money is going to the long haul in Zagreb?
DeleteEK kept on flying in winter the first year despite horrible loads because they had to, they got the money so it was a contractual obligation. Croatia might have the tourism but they have only partially succeeded in making it work because seasonality is killing them.
DeleteAirports are giving PSO? Very wrong.
DeleteThe money given to EK, KE, AA etc are not airports subvensions. It is done directly by Government, despite officially it is 50% HTZ and remaining 50% locals.
Even last year the responsible minister announced the total amount of "udruzeno oglasavanje" will be increased.
So, airlines get in ZAG first year discount + huge udruzeno oglasavanje money. And we speak here about "demand". Yeah, right.
But shouldn't the sums these airlines get be publically known? I mean as an EU member state that's not very transparent. Something has to change because we should know how much tax money is being given to foreign companies.
DeleteAnon 13:38
DeleteI didnt said that airports are giving PSO, i said that support are given by "airports or countries". You said that Emirates recives huge amounts of money for flights to ZAG, right? Can you prove that by showing me and other people a source (link) from where you got that information? Support of no support, route still needs to relay on demand to be operative, its not like that there is no demand and that Emirates is losing huge amounts of money so local community needs to pay their "huge" losses and make it profitabile. Its not like that there is no airport in the region where some of the airlines are not getting something, right? Like Air Serbia got huge amounts of money in the last years so its not like that there is no demand for Serbian based carrier... Same as Wizz in Skopje, is there no demand if they are getting money for basing planes there?
Ok, we are talking here about airports. If we start talking about Air Serbia and at the same time Croatia Airlines as regional airlines we shall continue speaking about huge amounts of money. So do not mix apples and oranges.
DeleteYou already asked once for the information about "udruzeno oglasavanje" fund and you got it together with links. For some other information you will have to search by yourself.
It is not that Emirates is flying to ZAG and losing huge amount of money as long as they get extra cash from airport or CRO Government through one or another way of financial support. Of course Croatian tourist season helps, but it would not be sufficient.
How much it helps maybe you can see the best in the fact that EK does not fly to German capital, Berlin. And you still believe that ZAG has better passenger potential than Berlin?
Well, yes there are airlines which do not get something special on certian airports in the region. There is price list and discounts for first year of operation. If that company does not generate huge traffic on specific airport (Air Serbia has bit less than 50% of traffic in BEG and that is a reason for discounted prices and even better example is W6 in SKP) they start paying starting from second or in some cases third year normal airport price. No mumbo jumbo games with certian half public touristic funds etc.
What is the percentage of traffic EK makes in ZAG? Now you see.
The best examples are ASL in BEG and W6 in FRA. After first year of reduced prices they stopped flying CDG-BEG as they should have paid full price. The same situation was with W6 in FRA after 2 years. There are no more flights from FRA to BUD, IEV and SOF by W6.
You provided here links for text from "Kolumne Alena Šćurica" which I am reading every Tuesday for more than 2 years (not writing any comments), and I know what informations were provided in his texts. He talked about "udruženo oglašavanje", programme of HTZ to help many companies and private enterprises with providing them money for advertisments. In his texts, there were never information what is amount of money given to the Emirates, Korean and others. Im asking you to provide me your sources where you found information that "huge" amount of money is provided to Emirates and others. Without that source you are not proving nothing ecpecialy your thoughts that there is no demand for Emirates during summer season in one of the most popular countries in the world.
DeleteIts interesting that you mention Berlin in terms of demand for Emirates where you are saying "how that there is no Emirates there, but in Zagreb there is?" Emirates is not flying in Berlin because there is no demand, Emirates is not flying there because it has restrictions of flying in Germany same as in Canada. Emirates is currently restricted to operate only 4 destination in Germany by choise and these are: Frankfurt, Munich, Hamburg and Dusseldorf, so it is not possible to operate flights to Berlin because that will be fifth city. Flights to Berlin would be possible if they decide to suspend of of the current destinations.
*one of the current
DeleteAs far I know, ZAG Airport is not providing money to anyone, not even Emirates. Maybe you dont have "mumbo jumbo games with certian half public touristic funds", but thats why you have annual state "donations" for Air Serbia, so i really dont know what do you want to prove with Emirates in ZAG? That there is no demand in Croatia, but there is in Serbia?
DeleteAnon 15:09
DeleteMaybe you didnt find any links who will prove that Emirates gets "huge" amounts of money for route to ZAG which in your opinion has not demand for Emirates but... I find something...
https://www.exyuaviation.com/2019/11/emirates-confident-in-zagreb-route.html
It seems that operator of this route does not shares same opinion about demand with you.
I am glad the situation with airlines and airport discount percentages got clearer.
DeleteIf millions of EUR for you is not "huge" than I have nothing more to add.
"U Hrvatskoj se trenutno sa višemilijunskim iznosima financiraju prijevoznici radi dovođenja turista (tzv. udruženo oglašavanje). Ovaj projekt financira sa 50% iznosa Hrvatska turistička zajednica, a jednako toliko novaca moraju dati lokalni turistički subjekti. "
""Ma daj novac ide u daleko najvećem dijelu stranim kompanijama, potpuno ste u pravu. Zanemarivo mala količina istog ide Croatiji Airlinesu, ništa Trade Airu."
So, you have millions of EUR in the fund for airlines, OU gets almost nothing and Trade Air really nothing. How difficult could it be to make any kind of conclusion?
I picked up Berlin as it came first to my mind, but you can replace it with HEL that had more passengers in 2019 (22 million) than whole Croatia had tourists or IEV and OTP that each had 15 million pax in 2019. And guess what? Not even one of these airports has or had last year direct EK flight to DXB.
And I should believe that ZAG has bigger demand comparing to these 3 cities? Sorry, I don't buy it.
Now put in equation together 3,45 mil pax ZAG had in 2019 and multimillion CRO Government gift package for foreign airlines.
Yes, now it looks much clearer.
Heheh
DeleteThierry Antinori, Emirates’ Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer, said...We thank those partners and especially the Ministry of Tourism and Zagreb Airport for their SUPPORT in preparing for introduction of our daily flight and the event today”.
https://www.exyuaviation.com/2017/06/emirates-launches-zagreb-service.html
It seems that Mr. Antinori was very honest those days.
Are you obsessed with Serbia?
DeleteFirst you mention Air Serbia now Serbia as a country. That supposed to be an argument?
I am talking about EK in ZAG, but it seems you can't get Serbia out of your head.
Millions of Euros is "huge" amount of money, but that money is provided to all airlines on all airports who wanted money from "udruzeno oglasavanje" fund. Still you didnt provide me a link from where you got information of "huge" amounts of money given to the Emirates. I posted link about what Emirates chief for European market said about ZAG and he said that it has a lot of potential because of a lot of tourist coming to Croatia every year. So if Emirates said that there is demand, that means that there is a demand. If there was no demand he would said that they will cancel the route or just asked for more support. I really dont think that number of passangers is the important for launching operations for Emirates. If they decided to open route to ZAG and they say there is no problems in terms of profitability, loads or demand that means that route will still be there.
DeleteI see that you mention Kiev (IEV airport, KBP is major actually for legacies but I know what you said with metioning IEV), Kiev was added to their route network on 16th of January 2016. with Airbus A340-500 aircraft and it was operated every day. In the May of same year, number of frecuencies was decreased to 4 daily which was not good for the start of summer season. Later route was canceled because of MH17 crash, but it was intended to back after few months because, again, route was underperformed. So they were never back to KPB. One of the reasons were huge numbers of frecuencies in that time, Flydubai was flying daily, UIA double daily and Dniproavia coupe of weakly flights. I dont know why they were never back in Kiev, probably Flydubai is flying with codeshare there.
Helsinki is unsuccessful destination for huge numbers of European airlines, so probably Emirates was never so interested in operating flights there. Maybe they planned to launch HEL in the future...
"We thank those partners and especially the Ministry of Tourism and Zagreb Airport for their SUPPORT in preparing for introduction of our daily flight and the event today."
DeleteSupport in preparing for introduction of or daily flight and the event today means that Ministry of Tourism and Zagreb Airport prepared different things for Emirates, like water salute, commertials around the city (i saw them even on TV, Marmontova street in Split, on many places in Zagreb) and so on... Preparing introduction of the flight does not mean giving money for launching flights to Zagreb.
EK doesn't fly to Berlin because of the bilateral.
Delete"I am talking about EK in ZAG, but it seems you can't get Serbia out of your head."
DeleteCouple of times in this conversation, it was mentioned rumors how Emirates wanted rather start flying to BEG than to ZAG. So im not mentioning Belgrade Airport and its demand without any reason.
In terms of obsesion with Serbian aviation, I will honestly say that I dont have obsession with some airport/country in the region. Most of them are doing quite good job so its not like that im so obsessed with one of them. Only thing that I am honestly obsessed in Serbian aviation is Air Serbias A330-200. Its only regional based wide body and I heard great things about business class catering. I would really be glad to fly with it.
Nobody is going to serve you the information on the silver plate on the way you wish to see it although everything indicates to the very clear conclusions.
DeleteSome time before Emirates started flying to ZAG they placed the information that they have no intention to fly to any city in ex-Yu.
https://www.exyuaviation.com/2015/06/emirates-has-no-plans-to-fly-to-ex-yu.html
So much about the reliability of the information coming from them including so called demand.
I was very clear about Kiev airport - I said EK did not fly there last year - "Not even one of these airports has or had last year direct EK flight to DXB." And it is the fact.
Finland is not that problematic as you try to present especially for the company of the size of Emirates. Even W6 opens direct connection between BEG and Finland and this kind of connections already exists for a long time from SKP.
If there was no current health crisis even JU would be still flying there, so actually it is quite ok airport with very decent demand. Actually huge comparing to the demand in ex-Yu, but still no EK flights. The similiar situation is with OTP. It just proves that EK flying to ZAG has behind story. And it is not the demand.
I suppose you are young person and you are still not familiar with business language. Let's continue believing that Mr. Antinori was talking about water salute in ZAG :-)
BEG was mentioned only once on the beginning of the conversation and it was related to EK rumour choosing the airport where to fly to in ex-YU and later on only insisted by you. Even Air Serbia somehow got in the discussion although they really have nothing to do with Emirates.
I suppose it is simply the customs to mention Air Serbia in the absence of other arguments.
Im sorry but Emirates said that there is demand because of tourist incoming to Croatia during the summer. So why than you dont want to show me your source? Does it exist actualy would be better question because if you want to have clear argument against me you would immidiately show me that "source". But you cant, because that is only your fealing that there is no demand and facts dont care about your feelings. If they are not flying to Helsinki that doesnt mean that there is no demand for Emirates in ZAG. But your life problem is that there is Emirates in ZAG but you dont want to see that so you are just hoping, without any facts, that there is no demand and that is ZAG to DXB route just made around local money. I really dont see why do you think that there is there no demand for Emirates. Cry how much do you want, but Emirates is still in ZAG and not in BEG.
DeleteAnd this around that im young... It is just becoming clearer and clearer that you will be soon without any arguments... After this, insults and hate are coming... Same as crusifying me because of mentioning you know which airline.
Just to say something more...
Delete"Finland is not that problematic as you try to present especially for the company of the size of Emirates. Even W6 opens direct connection between BEG and Finland and this kind of connections already exists for a long time from SKP."
Say that to LOT, Austrian, Swiss, Iberia, Bruselss, British Airways, Aer Lingus and more local european airlines who failed or are not flying to the airport of 22 million passangers (not LCC one) in the capital of one of the richest EU coutries from where is almost immpsiblie to get with a car to the other EU coutries.
Uhmm, Emirates is no more in ZAG.
DeleteJust for a record
Uhmm, how that I can book Emirates tickets on ZAG to DXB for next season?
DeleteThey probably route you via Vienna or Munich or simply fly on Qatar.
DeleteThe list of airlines that do successfully fly to Helsinki
DeleteAegean
Aeroflot
Air Baltic
Belavia
Czech Airlines
Finnair (flying among others to LHR, WAW, VIE, ZRH, MAD, BCN, BRU, DUB etc)
FlyDubai
Icelandair
Japan Airlines
KLM
Lufthansa
Norwegian
Pegasus
Qatar Airways
Ryanair
SAS
TAP
Turkish
Ukraine International
and many more charters as well as Chinese companies.
Really "problematic" airport!
Direct flight ZAG-DXB, 05:24 hours, Emirates 777-300ER, 01 June 2021? How is that via Vienna or Munich?
DeleteAnon 08:52
DeleteBut where is LOT Polish Airlines? They have huge regional exyu network and still are not flying there? Where is Austrian Airlines, they also have huge exyu network? Where is British Airways? Why are they only using codeshare with Finnair between two largest one world hubs? What is with Swiss (or Edelweis)? They used to operate 3 daily flights to BEG but zero to HEL? Even more Edelweiss had to PRN, even flights to widebodies but there is still nothing to HEL? Where is Iberia? They operated 2 daily to ZAG and DBV but nothing to HEL? Why is Qatar Airways for years operating flights to BEG and ZAG but they started flying to HEL just 2 years ago?
Does this mean that all these flights are unprofitabile because these airlines are not flying to HEL? Are flights from ZRH to BEG and PRN payed because they are not flying to Helsinki? Is Qatar Airways payed in all of these cities because they started flights there before HEL?
It means that HEL has connection to all of these countries and their airports and most of these companies have code share with Finnair.
DeleteIf there is no demand Finnair would not be flying there. UK is good example as Finnair flies to Edinburgh, London (LHR), Manchester and Norwegian flies to London Gatwick. Simply BA either did not find its place there the same as they were not successful in BEG (beaten by W6 and JU) or it was agreement within One World. Surely demand is there.
Austria is also very well covered from HEL with more than daily flights with Finnair together with direct Ryanair connection VIE-HEL. So there is certainly demand, but OS is not actually the best example of having good management.
Which airline from Kosovo* was the competition to Swiss flying to PRN? Exactly. Now you see why wide body plane sometimes flies ZRH-PRN.
And Finnair flies every single day HEL-ZRH + they fly HEL-GVA.
Where is Iberia? I really wonder where they are taking in consideration that HEL is connected to Alicante (Finnair + Norwegian), Barcelona (Finnair + Norwegian), Madrid, Malaga (Finnair + Norwegian). Obviously there is more than enough demand for so many flights from "problematic" Helsinki to Spain. As in the case of BA it could be the deal within their alliance.
If you check Finnair map of destinations you will see that they in Poland also fly to Gdansk, Warsaw and Krakow. It is bit too much for "problematic" airport.
And so on, so on...But I wonder why do we see the flights from
Lufthansa
TAP (!)
Turkish
Pegasus
Czech Airlines
Aeroflot
KLM
Aegean
to Helsinki if this airport is so "problematic"? Even Croatia and Air Serbia were flying there.
So we have here proven that HEL airport that is very well connected to almost each important airport in Europe + they have good connections to some parts of Asia. And such a good airport with 22 million passengers is not good choice for Emirates and Zagreb with tiny 3,45 million is good choice without any hidden deal?
Sure. Keep dreaming.
@anon 08:53
DeleteCan you book Emirates from ZAG to DXB on 15.08.2020?
That's what I am talking about.
June 2021 is way toooo far for any predictions. And of course they will sell you the tickets for June 2021. Having 1 year free money on their account. Why not?
I can only see that you are dreaming. Your dream is that Emirates cancel ZAG, and start operation to BEG. When that happen you will not have any problems is there demand or there is not. ZAG might be tiny airport but Croatian market is not tiny at all. Also you are forgeting the fact that Flydubai flies to HEL, and Emirates has quite good relationship with them and if they start flying to HEL they will replace Flydubai. Same with Kiev, Flydubai during a season flies there double daily with 737-800 of capacity about 160 seats. Emirates 777-300ER has capacity of about 350 seats, so 1 daily with EK is equal to 2 daily with FZ. Just because Emirates of not flying to the bigger airport that doesnt mean that there is no demand and that route is money losing. That is only your dream. People here are talking about everything, from Garuda in Belgrade to United in Pristina but still there is no demand for Emirates in ZAG just because they are not flying to BEG. But despite "no demand" for Emirates in ZAG they still somehow have 70 to 80% of LF on their flights. How that happend? Is HTZ maybe offering free tickets? I wouldnt be suprised if you said that.
DeleteHelsinki is not "problematic" for Finnair and Norwegian, but is for other airlines who simply failed there. 22 million passangers but no LOT, no Swiss... how that happend? Major difference between Croatia and Finnland is that Croatia has 19 million tourist. Number of passanger on the one of the airports is not important for demand. And how that Emirates is operating flights to Victoria and Male but not to HEL, OTP or KBP. Are their goverments also paying for Emirates because there is no demand on Seychelles and Maldives?. You are you feeling that there is no demand, you are just hoping that route is money losing, you are jellaous because ZAG has 777-300er daily during the season but just 3.5 million passangers...
And just last thing to say but in capital letters; TOURIST DEMAND IS NOT CONNECTED TO THE NUMBERS OF PASSANGERS ON THE MAJOR AIRPORT IN THE COUNTRY.
Unfortunately there was no any sign of answer about the companies that do fly to HEL. Expected.
DeleteIt if really a big mystery why every time when you, due to lack of arguments, get upset Serbia and Belgrade become your topic of interest. Jeaulosy or what I don't know but it is for sure out of my field of expertise. Somebody else should take care about it.
"Just because Emirates of not flying to the bigger airport that doesnt mean that there is no demand and that route is money losing".
Of course. We can see it very well on ZAG example. FZ started flying to ZAG during the winter (and only 3 pw) only because Emirates pilots were not anymore in a mood to fly to ZAG. Otherwise EK would continue flying to ZAG as there is demand (70-80%!)
Except when Indonesian Minister visited Belgrade few days ago and arrived with Garuda I can't recall anyone was talking about it in relation with BEG. But from the other side it seems you keep forgetting that Garuda was one who apparently showed interest in Croatia Airlines. And of course nothing happened.
It is clear that on indirect way through "udruzeno oglasavanje" fund HTZ financially stimulates foreign acompanies to fly to ZAG and that many of them would not arrive to ZAG without it.
You said: "Number of passanger on the one of the airports is not important for demand". It means we can soon expect EK or UA to start flying to OSI as it is Croatian airport and "demand in whole country due to tourism is quite big but not numbers on one of the airports". Sounds logical.
Are you really comparing Seycehelles and Croatia? Wow. I am speechless.
It is obvious by your typing style that you got quite excited here and that you started bringing it to the personal level while I do not wish to be part of it. There is no need for that young man.
Go find some girl and chill out. As I said I rest my case. Have a nice day.
I think that I gave you my answers on your questions and for HEL and for Emirates in ZAG.
DeleteZAG is one of the entry points for tourist coming to Croatia because it is quite near the coast and you have a lot of tourist visiting ZAG (see numbers of Korean tourist) while OSI is not. So your comparasion between EK in ZAG with OSI is really hilarious.
If airlines were opening routes on basis of numbers of passangers, we will have American in Katowice (not in DBV), and Korean in Bucharest (not in ZAG). Demand is important not number of passangers. Katowice might have more passangers than DBV but you have more American tourist in Dubrovnik. Same as your comparasion between HEL and ZAG, HEL might have more passangers but Croatian tourist numbers are simply higher than Finish ones. So you will have more demand for Emirates in ZAG than in HEL.
Seychelles have about 350.000 tourist, about 730.000 air passanger and Emirates flying there. Probably Skopje has larger demand for Emirates because of more air passangers.
Do you know why Im mentioning BEG? Cmon!! We know why, because a lot of people say how there is more demand!! So it is really not so hard to guess you nationality, but when you are talking about my age.... you failed a little bit... but not accidentaly... I know that.
But overall, we should stop this... at least we are sharing some opinions, we know there was some some kind of financial support for these flights...
I find it hard to believe that Ljubljana will manage to get flights.
ReplyDeleteIf they did not manage to get one carrier to fly to Ljubljana during aviation peak, I highly doubt they will do something during biggest aviation crisis ever.
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteAnd they don't list Wizz Air as a potential partner for this route? They are their best chance for these flights to happen.
ReplyDeleteThey are looking to get good connections to Asia for Asian tourists. A P2P LCC route would not help with this.
DeleteThe middle east saga continues. Doesn't seem to me they are close to a deal if they still don't know if it will be Dubai or Doha.
ReplyDelete“We currently have seventeen airlines serving Slovenia" - hilarious!
ReplyDeleteThey are just operating with data which suitable for them but in airlines business number of airlines does not mean s**t.
I am wondering why do not they give us number of daily/weekly flights out of LJU? When you check timetable in LJU it's completely empty, today 5 regular flight and tomorrow only 2. Disaster..
Skobir is trying to screw the government by asking for subsidies amounting to 10 EUR/pax.
DeleteQR would make most sense to me.
ReplyDeleteQR sure seem to have the deeper pockets and the willingness to sustain losses.
DeleteI too think they are the best bet for LJU.
Why are Gulf flights their biggest priority? I don't get it. And I'm genuinely asking.
ReplyDeleteBig market, excellent transfer options, good tourism potential, increasing trade and cargo opportunities.
DeleteSlovenia is literally the only country in the region without nonstop flights to the Gulf.
ReplyDeleteSlovenia has some of the worst air connectivity in the EU so I don't know why you are surprised...
DeleteI would say that FZ is the only logical choice especially if they do not return to ZAG this winter.
ReplyDeleteIf LJU was smart, now would be the time to lure FZ away from ZAG.
Delete@plane mad. FZ already suspended ZAG once.
DeleteAnd FZ does not return to ZAG officially before winter 2020 despite the fact that they do fly during this summer to the other airports in the region.
DeleteSo they have chosen already BEG and SJJ before ZAG (who had EK!), why not LJU?
Anonymous 09:25
DeleteBut they didn't launch LJU instead.
@Anon 09:30 Because HR has 15 million tourists a year!
DeleteAs far I know ZAG is in the EU and Croatia is restricting people from many coutries to enter in EU or Croatia which is not the case with BEG and SJJ.
DeleteUntil a few days ago, Bosnia restricted most people from entering the country, including EU.
DeleteI think the Emirates/Flydubai swap in Zagreb killed the chances of LJU getting these flights from Flydubai.
Delete@Anon 09:46
DeleteAre 15 million tourists the reason why FZ does not return to ZAG this summer?
FZ was never operating any seasonal flights to ZAG. Emirates did.
DeleteNever?
DeleteWhat about winter 2019/2020?
Winter is not summer! Seasonal in terms of flying during tourist season.
DeleteSeasonal means during certain season and not whole year.
DeleteWould love to see Emirates in Ljubljana :D
ReplyDeleteThat is very optimistic scenario.
DeleteI would rather say; imposibile scenario.
DeleteTK will even get stronger in LJU. I don't see a chance for QR or EK in LJU.
ReplyDeleteIST is a perfect transfer location for LJU.
Yes it is, but it also depends from final destination.
DeleteFor the wider ex-Yu region JU is one of the best transfer options from LJU.
What does mean "wider exYu region"?
DeleteSJJ, SOF, OTP, SKG, TGD, TIV, DBV, TIA, SKP
DeleteWhen was Sofia, Thessaloniki or Bucharest part of Yugoslavia?
DeleteTherefore it is written "wider". I thought it was clear enough.
DeleteSo, as I need to be very precise Ex-Yu means
BEG, SJJ, TGD, TIV, DBV, SKP
All the others were not in YUG but also not far from it and geographically all these cities belong to the same Balkan region.
And for all these airports Air Serbia offers good connections from LJU.
DeleteAnyone have an idea which flights Slovenes use most to get to the Gulf from nearby airports?
ReplyDeleteIt was probably emirates from Zagreb.
DeleteEmirates advertised the Zagreb flights throughout Slovenia.
DeleteIn the era of travel restrictions and the need to minimize travel time, having a direct link without having to go to nearby airports would be beneficial.
ReplyDeleteSorry don't see it happening any time soon.
ReplyDeleteFlights will start sooner or later. It's just a matter of whether it will be Doha or Dubai.
DeleteI've been hearing that for years.
DeleteWhere there is a will there is a way.
DeleteMaybe LJU will get those flights, but at that time other airports in region will have their regular flights already to moon...
DeleteI don't know what's more difficult for LJU management. To get flights to Dubai or to get flights to Vienna.
ReplyDeleteFlights to Vienna will never happen again because it is far more practical to get there by road or rail and Austria made new taxes for flights less than 350 km from Austria (30 € per every passanger) and increase previous taxes for short haul flights from 3.5 to 12 €. So I dont think that anybody will make profit ever on that route, especialy after OS decided to get rid of all Q400s and replace them with new A320s.
DeleteQR would be a really nice addition. I assume if it's Dubai it would be Fly Dubai
ReplyDeleteFingers crossed for QR. Would give Turkish some competition.
ReplyDeleteLjubljana is still missing many major European cities. This should be a priority.
ReplyDeleteWish all the best to LJU.
ReplyDeleteWe need new LCC routes!! Not Gulf.
ReplyDeleteActually we need more flights to biggest EU cities...
DeleteWe need a new national carrier.
Delete^ 1000
DeleteAre you going to pay for the new national carrier yourself?
Delete@anon 2150
Deletedo you understand how countries work?
@Anonymous 21:50:
DeleteSure will and so will you.
For those thinking Flydubai will come, there is very little chance of that happening with the coronavirus and the MAX debacle ongoing.
ReplyDeleteWell at least they are not giving up :)
ReplyDeleteAnd at the same time people in Sarajevo complain all the time about their Gulf flights.
DeleteWhat about Air Arabia Abu Dhabi? it could be a good alternative and since it's an Etihad joint venture passengers would be able to transfer onto Etihad flights.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't that impact JU?
DeleteNot really, JU mostly carries its own passengers not so much connections to EY. This would impact LH, TK and SU much more.
DeleteEtihad is a mess. So actualy it wont impact anybody.
DeleteI think LJU needs to focus on connections to major European destinations.
ReplyDeleteTraffic development in time of corona is laughable.
ReplyDeleteTell that to Wizz Air.
DeleteI think third daily on SU is more realistic than a flight to the Persian Gulf.
ReplyDelete"We currently have seventeen airlines serving Slovenia." - Are you sure about that? Because, according to this (https://www.rtvslo.si/zivljenjski-slog/ture-avanture/kako-je-videti-letenje-v-casu-pandemije/531171), LJU is more like POW during the winter months.
ReplyDeleteWould have been nice having Adria fly to Dubai.
ReplyDeleteIt would be yet another loss-making route.
DeleteIt would be cool if government would set up new national carrier so LJU is not the worst connected in Europe and so Skobir can keep building castles in the sky for the next 10 years and Gulf carriers can fly there.
ReplyDeleteAirport LJU without national carrier is dead meat. period.
ReplyDeleteFirst, they are near agreement with largest regional carrier to base aircraft at LJU.
ReplyDeleteNow they are they are bidding for Golf airlines.
REAL WORLD ACTIONS
They are letting go of 82 people
Have on average 5 flights per day
Requests 10 EUR / PAX from Government
Did I miss something ?
87 actually. 5 people of many more decided to retire.
Delete+ a lot of students.
Delete+ a lot of employees of other companies at the airport.
they really are geniuses.
Anon 19:21
Deletethis is so not true, actually average flights per day is less than 5. Today they manage to get even 2 flights (both to FRA) and on Friday only 1 flight in whole day.
For me it is hard to understand the logic (I assume that what they say in public is true).
ReplyDeleteIf they are successful and that there will be few aircraft based in LJU, it can be expected that workload will increase.
Same logic apply to Golf carriers.
Why are they then letting go of the staff instead of other possibilities they have (contact freezing, government Corona options) until deals are finalized?
It's hard to understand simply because they've made some bad decisions lately.
ReplyDelete- they are against the new national carrier from which they would benefit a lot
- they are instead trying to get 10€/pax government subsidies which they will not get
- they are rushing to have the new terminal build by june next year which they will not need as they say at least until 2023, possibly 2025. This will cause additional running cost without much revenue
- they fired half of the operations (and no administration), because traffic will not pick up until at least 2023, likekly 2025 (their words). And the cost of staff per month is just the proportion of costs for the terminal. And when traffic picks up they will first need people, then terminal. But guess what - highly skilled and experienced workers will find jobs elsewhere. And next year they will be searching for new staff. What a mismanagement.
+1
DeleteEven though fired operations staff will be prioritized for reemployment for the next two years, i think many will think twice before going back now that they are experiencing normal sleep cycles, regular (warm) meals, having time for their family and friends, much less stress on a daily basis etc. Those who will go back either can't imagine work in something that is not aviation or won't get a new job or their new job will really suck or they'll be paid much less.
+ When the traffic picks up they won't just need people, they'll need people who can solve problems and understand how the airport functions - they can't possibly get that with new people that they'll start training just before summer season.
but of course management doesn't care about what additional problems operations will face once they have to hire complete rookies
Deleteanon at 11:41 - exactly! They will most likely employ newcomers, which means road to disaster
Delete