Air Serbia is still in the process of evaluating both Toronto and Miami of becoming its third destination in North America. In a statement to the “aeroTELEGRAPH” portal, the carrier’s CEO, Jiri Marek, said both cities have an equal chance of potentially being added to the airline’s network. The Serbian carrier will introduce a three weekly service to Chicago on May 17 and will boost operations on its New York route to daily from June 18. The airline’s primary goal in the development of its long haul network remains the addition of flights to Beijing and Shanghai. “We opened our service to Tianjin in December. The flights have been profitable from the start, which is why we are currently working on approvals not only to grow this service, but also for flights to Beijing and Shanghai”, Mr Marek said. However, the CEO previously noted that he does not expect for those destinations to be added before the fourth quarter due to the length of acquiring necessary permissions.
Explaining the company’s decision to launch flights to Chicago over Toronto, Mr Marek previously said, “Toronto has very strong demand in the summer but is very seasonal, even more seasonal than Chicago, and is even more directional in terms of the beginning of the season and the end of the season, and you don’t have so many beyond and behind options where you can tackle this rigorous directionality. Despite having cooperation with Air Canada in Toronto, this, at the moment, is kind of challenging. We have Toronto on our priority list but in whatever area you look, Chicago was more preferred”.
The CEO said last year that he could imagine Air Serbia operating a fleet of around five wide-body aircraft. However, Mr Marek now says, “As we're seeing at the moment, long haul is doing relatively well, so maybe more jets could be considered”. Air Serbia has short-listed a third A330 aircraft for its fleet. “For us, I call the A330 the ATR of the wide-bodies. It is the perfect aircraft for an airline of our size. It is a very profitable machine, especially with the lease rates we have since Covid”, Mr Marek said last month.
When could Toronto or Miami be added to the network? This winter or summer 2024?
ReplyDeleteThey don't need Toronto, especially now they serve Chicago.
ReplyDeleteMiami is a year-round destination and gateway to South America, if they were to conclude a codeshare with Avianca, LATAM or other South American carrier.
It's way easier to serve Toronto via New York or Chicago than as a separate service.
DeleteTransfers from Toronto via US to Europe are not popular due to the transborder process adding complexity compared to flying via some Euro hub.
DeleteNobody will transfer from Toronto via any American airport. It’s not convenient. You have to clear customs twice, recheck your luggage, likely switch terminals… absolutely not worth it. Toronto demand will either be via Toronto direct or a gift to the LH group.
DeleteNot true you don’t have to go through any customs in Toronto if you connect to Europe from the States. I did it last week. You go through an in-transit desk and proceed to your gate without any problem. What’s even better you clear USA customs in Toronto on the return.
DeleteYou went from US via Toronto to Europe. That's completely different. We were talking about Toronto passengers flying to Chicago or JFK then continuing to Serbia.
DeleteWouldn’t this only apply if you are not on a through ticket and therefore have to clear customs and check in again? Wouldn’t an air side transfer be possible if JFK-JFK or ORD-ORD? In which case you would just remain air side, go through security and board the next flight?
DeleteDon't think so. All passengers have to clear US CBP at Toronto airport, arriving at US airports as if arrivng on a domestic flight.
DeleteGood to see that the long haul expansion will continue and that we won't wait years till the next new destination.
ReplyDeleteMiami is actually a good choice. There is a large Balkan diaspora not just in Miami but in Florida in general and it is also a popular holiday destination and good transfer point to South America.
ReplyDeleteMIA 2 times per week would be great.
Delete3 times for transfers.
Deletethe problem with miami is that it's busy season is nov-april roughly and most people won't want to travel then if they're in the service industry (and most of diaspora is). second, while miami is a popular tourist destination it's also EXTREMELY expensive. we are talking in-season hotels being 350+ per night for something remotely decent. plus drinks and food are incredibly expensive compared to ex-yu (an average dinner in miami is perhaps $100). while there are people who can afford it for sure, i don't see this beating out many cheaper destinations.
DeleteWith more Balkan connections and a codeshare, the US market could perform extremely well.
ReplyDeleteToronto will cater primarily to Serbian, Balkan and Middle East traffic.
ReplyDeleteMiami will cater primarily to Russians not being able to fly directly to the US.
There is big Balkan diaspora in Miami and Florida.
DeleteThose Russians having the need to fly to MIA are already doing so quite efficiently through Istanbul and are doing so mostly in business class. For most Russians travel to N America is not so needed under current circumstances.
DeleteThere are lots of Russians living in Miami and south Florida.
DeleteUh. How many times we have heard the mention of Toronto. Hopefully, the flights will be started sooner then later.
ReplyDeleteOn a side note, so proud of JU!!! Wish them all the best!
I'm actually sick of hearing about Toronto.
DeleteExcellent news
ReplyDeleteGreat news from Air Serbia. Best solution is both cities. If not posible, Miami is most favorite.
ReplyDeleteThan Toronto and Los Angeles...
✈😀🛫♥️✈🌐✈
Gritings from Sydney to Serbia in spring time! ♥️✈
ReplyDeleteBoring toronto news. Open miami.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. Nice to see North American market developing for JU.
ReplyDeleteAlso good to see TSN performing well for them.
DeleteThe China gamble during Covid paid off.
DeleteBetter to focus on China, where besides passengers, they also have huge cargo potential. PEK, TSN, PVG, XIY, CKG, CTU…
DeleteMarek said in an interview here that they will have a lot of cargo on the Chicago route too.
Delete/n;'oj'oj'oj;o
DeleteCongrats Air Serbia. This is quite a good development.
ReplyDeleteMany were saying here that there would be no passengers to US. So much for that.
DeleteI think Miami could work really well.
ReplyDeleteBased on what?
DeleteBig diaspora, tourism opportunities, transfer opportunities, lower costs than YYZ.
DeleteAnd potential codeshare partner (and existing interline partner) AA has a hub in MIA
DeleteAir Serbia already interlines with Air Canada. Even if AC is not willing to partner with Air Serbia on direct BEG-YYZ service, other airlines like Westjet or Porter have services from Montreal and Vancouver that can feed Air Serbia flights in Toronto. Combined demand from Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto to Belgrade far exceeds demand from Miami to Belgrade.
DeleteAA is not interested in codesharing with JU in JFK and ORD.
DeleteWhat makes you think they'll be interested in MIA?
Coming from Vancouver I see it as only one of the options as there are many 1 stop flights to BEG.
DeleteComing from Vancouver, I flew from Vancouver to Belgrade just a few days ago (March 17) and I struggled to get any good connection in the winter season we are still on. Simply not many options any more…
DeleteMaybe it's time to focus on Asia as well (after opening Miami a and Toronto)? Could South Korea or Japan work?
ReplyDeleteAnd what about Lagos? :D
DeleteAs much as we are all making fun of Lagos, if the line is to be opened I'm sure it would be pretty full. Nigeria has population of 215 million people with about 214 mio wanting to get out lol
DeleteOU should start ZAG - LOS route, I'm sure it would be quite successful
DeleteI don't know if you've seen how many airlines are having issues flying to Nigeria. Emirates suspended flights therefrom September last year.
DeleteIt's bcs of the fuel i think. I'm flying on the route quite regularly (5-8 times yearly) and it's usually due to the fuel. The flights themselves are full-ish (let's say 85-95%).
DeleteMaybe India could work too?
DeleteI remember IndiGo had weekly charters to BEG a few years ago
DeleteDefinitely India, but before Serbia introduced visas for Indians.
DeleteNot so sure right now, as traffic between India and Serbia, other than migrants flow, is not that big.
I also think that Africa is a good choice, Lagos and Khartoum. They should include some routes that are not well connected with Europe.
DeleteBetter to focus on China, where besides passengers, they also have huge cargo potential.
DeleteThe focus on China is already work in progress, Hong Kong maybe, however that does not mean that JU should not focus on Africa and Middle East.
DeleteI disagree, dare and try for a new land. Migrants could be managed.
DeleteHow many long haul routes can they realistically have with 3 A330s?
ReplyDeleteIt depends on the frequnecies
Delete5
Delete15-17 weekly frequencies depending on the route. With 7 JFK and 3 ORD they have up to 7 frequencies left to distribute to TSN, PVG, PEK, MIA, YYZ
DeleteFor Toronto and/or Miami must be 4 A330.
DeleteGood to see they are planning ahead.
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteAt this rate they will have 5 A330s in a couple of years.
ReplyDeleteThis year for sure 3.
DeleteWhy not both?
ReplyDeleteWhatever they choose, they will most likely eventually fly to both.
DeleteToronto may seem like a tough route to start but will pay off in the long run. There is no point for Air Serbia to behave like a kid at the supermarket floor having a temper tantrum abour restrictive bilateral, seasonality and expensive airport. It didn't help Emirates it sure won't help Air Serbia.
DeleteStart flying summer seasonal twice per week and prove you can make it work. Extend the season, add transfers from the Balkans, find airline partner in Canada.
Easier said than done.
DeleteIf it was very easy every other airline would to it. No more low hanging fruit. If Air Serbia wants to play the long haul game with 4-5 planes they have to prove it can be done.
DeleteGood luck! Hope it happens.
ReplyDeleteGood that they have clear idea about direction that they are going toward
ReplyDeleteWhy are they only considering the A330? Why not another plane type for long haul operations?
ReplyDelete“For us, I call the A330 the ATR of the wide-bodies. It is the perfect aircraft for an airline of our size. It is a very profitable machine, especially with the lease rates we have since Covid”, Mr Marek said last month.
DeleteI can bet you they will choose Miami.
ReplyDeleteIn that case they better get a cargo plane and fly to Miami. There is better chance of making money on cargo than on passengers to Miami.
DeleteMaking a profit is not the number one goal for ASL.
DeleteIt most certainly is. That is why they had a profit last year, cut costs by 30% and why they are carefully analyzing which route to launch next.
DeleteNot all routes have to be profitable for airline to operate them. Chicago is not likely to be profitable in the first couple of years, and same should be expected for potential new route like Toronto. Eventually they will all be profitable.
DeleteWhy would Chicago not be profitable???
DeleteMiami is a great choice and it will definitely work year around. Last year I traveled to MIA via ZRH with LX and there were 10 Serbian passengers on that flight. No doubt that LX is a great experience, but once travelling with 2 kids and my wife, we would rather prefer direct flights. Our next flight to MIA will be in April with JU/AF via CDG with 7h layover. Totally crap but at least at somehow "affordable price". The return flight with DL/KL via DTW/AMS. I am exhausted even before the departure... So Miami is full of the Balkan diaspora, extremely wealthy Russians & Jewish community and some Mid East population.
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteIn Florida most Balkan diaspora fly with Turkish Airlines via IST
Delete5 star best service, 2 free bags 💼 no charge! Other airlines in EU they charge per bag and bad services! For Balkan diaspora Air Serbia can’t beat Turkish Airlines.
Except with Turkish you lose several hours by flying past your destination and then backtracking and that isn't even accounting for a connection.
DeleteOne complaint about Toronto is passengers travelling early in the season and coming back late in the season. Those are mostly grandmothers. Problem can be solved with dynamic pricing. When dates for fare search are entered as leaving in May or June, returning in September, then boost the price. If search is for June returning 2 weeks later, lower the price. That will help reduce one-way tendency early and late in the season.
ReplyDeleteThere are no more grandmothers, they all died. It is us that came in 90's that travel in off season. Our kids go in summer, because they have to. Everyone else is avoiding summer because of crowds and heat.
DeleteI'm still alive! I go to Serbia at the end of May and come back at the beginning of September and so every year.
DeleteI am glad to hear that, but you are one of these young Babas. LoL
DeleteThere are new generations of immigrants; those from 90’s are grandma and grandpas now….
DeleteHe's talkng about more growth when what they have now is not easy to sustain. Flights today and yesterday are delayed because planes are breaking down. So they want to add more chaos?
ReplyDeleteToday's flights are almost all on time, for now.
DeleteThe choice of Chicago as the first transatlantic route after JFK is obviously smart because from the direction of ORD in economy class almost all flights are sold out from the launch until the end of June. Only the most expensive tickets remain. I assume that from the direction of BEG the flights are filled later due to the issuance of visas. The profitability of the line to TSN from the very start obviously leaves them room for a quick launch of Toronto or Miami.
ReplyDeleteToronto is restricted to twice weekly flights. That' s a great opportunity for Air Serbia to start flying as Air Canada wiil not compete at that frequency. AC will likely need years before attempting to join. They had about 26 Boeing 767s in Rouge for seasonal routes in Europe but were all retired during Covid. Some destinations like BCN and ATH got promoted to regular Air Canada fleet but most other destinations like PRG, BUD, OTP and ZAG have not been restored yet. AC is more likely to restore those services than to start Belgrade. Latest AC MDA announced delay of A321XLR deliveries so Air Serbia is likely safe from competition for at least couple of years.
ReplyDeleteThat's not a great opportunity, the issue with YYZ is exactly 2x weekly limitation. Marek won't talk about it because the agreement is made and talks about some seasonality as a main issue. There's no profitability as long as the route is limited, especially during the summer season.
DeleteThe real question is why are Air Serbia and Air Canada blocking each other with this pointless agreement. Why they don't just cooperate on the route instead of competing. Meanwhile, people in Canada are reading the same stories for the last seven years...
AC seems more likely to stay loyal to their JV parther (LH Group) than to codeshare with new entrant Air Serbia.
DeleteYeah, that limitation of 2 weekly is deal breaker. That is like they limit your 30 table restaurant to serve lunch during lunch hours rush between 12 -13h to 5 tables!!!
Deleteso obviously that is a bit of problem.
It looks if things stand like this Miami will get advantage and later on Toronto if things change.
Also, Air Canada is dealing with lots of other issues, lots of pre Covid destinations are not returned. At some point they will sort things out and could be some solution for Toronto.
Also their relationship with LH group is very strong so they don’t have incentive to jeopardize it.
So JU priority is first to make it solid with existing Chicago and then expand Miami etc
And make strong regional network especially Croatia cost. OU and JU should not leave any money on the table.
Two weekly limitation should not be a deal breaker. Air Serbia initially announced Chicago as twice weekly. Air Serbia is operating Tianjin one weekly, going to twice weekly. Air Canada Rouge started Bucharest twice weekly summer seasonal. Air Transat operated Zagreb twice weekly summer seasonal. That's reasonable frequency to start YYZ-BEG service. Expand start and end dates of the season and then in the following year request frequency increase.
DeleteBoth please!
ReplyDeleteEventually I'm guessing they both will be served but the question is which one will be launched first.
DeleteThere will be riots if they choose Miami over Toronto :D
ReplyDeleteAnyone know how long would a nonstop flight from Belgrade take to each Toronto and Miami?
ReplyDeleteI know for Miami it would be about 11 hours from Beg and 10 hours from Mia.
DeleteMaybe they could fly summer seasonal to Toronto and then winter seasonal to Miami?
ReplyDeleteThat makes no sense at all...
Delete^ Because you do not know climate in summer in FL
DeleteWhy does it not make sense? The high season in Miami is in the winter not in the summer. While the majority of Toronto traffic is in summer due to diaspora.
DeleteThe operational costs could be extremely increased due to the seasonality of the routes. That will also affect the price of tickets. If they can't fill the plane during the whole year, then better not start it.
DeleteNot sure about MIA but for Toronto please stop mentioning year-round service. If Air Canada can't fill Athens and Barcelona during the whole year but only operate summer seasonal then you have to stop dreaming about Belgrade - Toronto going year-round. In reality only three companies: LH, LO & AF/KL can fill Toronto year-round from continental Europe (excludes Turkey). TAP is trying to keep up but only flying narrowbodies to YYZ. Wake up.
DeleteWhere does LO fly to?
DeleteThe fact that we are discussing their 3rd route to North America and 4th overall makes me happy. They should choose the destination which will bring them most money.
ReplyDelete+1
Delete+1000
DeleteIn order to have Miami success they need to feed that flight from Manila and Delhi due to huge number of seaman originating from those countries who are working in cruise industry hubs as Miami and Fort Lauderdale.
ReplyDeleteStrategy should be to first work on existing long hauls and complete their schedule with increasing frequencies, rather than operate several destinations with just 2 or 3 weekly flights. So JU should focus on JFK, ORD and China. I see there the most potential for JU. Once those 5 destinations are yearround on a satisfied level, they can look for new markets. I dont see this happen within the next 5 years
ReplyDeleteThey also need to ensure that as much as possible good connections in BEG to YU and TIA BUD OTP SOF SKG ATH LCA TLV VIE FCO VCE BEY plus ev. others with the long haul dep and arr. are ensured.
Well they will be operating JFK daily this summer.
DeleteNext step for JFK is to increase WITT
DeleteBoth will do fine 2x or 3x weekly. Florida has large diaspora in southeast as well as Tampa and Orlando. Ontario has a huge Serbian and Balkan diaspora and Air Serbia can reduce frequency in off season to one weekly.
ReplyDeleteJasmineeeeeee! Dje si? Eto kod komsija i Miamija i Toronto. Neg pus'ti to, gledaj ti s jaranima iz Mostara da bolje popunis Minken. A kaka je ono kahva bila danas?
ReplyDeleteJasmin radi. Ukinuo par frekvencija za Beč i Minhen.
DeleteWaiting for the YYZ.
ReplyDeleteSo are many others.
DeleteI Have a feeling that both destinations will materialise soon.
ReplyDeleteMe too. Toronto as a passenger service, Miami only as a cargo service. Not easy to find A330 cargo planes but some cargo 767s can be found on the market for a lot of money. Or just ask FedEx to take some of their remaining DC-10s. Jat people will be ecstatic to have DC-10 again, even in cargo config. Operate DC-10 for a couple of years until demand drops, then move it over to Museum.
DeleteI hope they will make LAX flight in the future!
ReplyDelete“For us, I call the A330 the ATR of the wide-bodies. It is the perfect aircraft for an airline of our size. It is a very profitable machine, especially with the lease rates we have since Covid”, Mr Marek said last month. It will be great if they can add their first Boeing Long-Haul aicraft :)
Not sure if BEG-LAX could be launched with A332 because of the range...
DeleteIt absolutely could.
DeleteIt's not A333.
Not sure about A332 legs on Beg-Lax westbound…
ReplyDeleteRead again.
DeleteToronto please go to Belgrade every year sometimes twice why not two days here and three mia
ReplyDeleteHow many cities did JAT covered in the USA while in its peak? Just wondering.
ReplyDeletePerhaps those can one day all be covered by AS.
6 - New York, Chicago. Los Angeles, Cleveland, Detroit and Pitsburgh.
DeleteCorrect. And Miami, Washington, Houston and San Francisco were just about to be introduced, as soon as MD11 were to join the fleet
DeleteAir Serbia can’t beat Turkish Airlines for Balkan diaspora from/to the United States which Turkish has better service and low offers for Balkan diaspora from anywhere in the US.
ReplyDeleteThey don't need to beat them.
DeleteThey can very well serve it along.
Turkish requires extra hours of flight time plus connection time (if you are trying to get to BEG specifically).
DeleteNo matter flight time for most travelers, which Turkish Airlines have better service, more futures, earn mileage, 2 free check-in bags, great food service 🍲, WiFi in flight, better fleet Boeing B777’s and Dreamliner B787’s etc… that’s why most Balkan diaspora in the USA fly with Turkish better than any EU and US airlines to Balkan.
DeleteCompetition is good for all, prices, service and all. If Air Serbia does add Miami, then they will have to at least compete on similar price range first and then ensure other components are there as well (2 free bags are already in play)
DeleteVancouver?
ReplyDeleteWould be really nice to see Miami. It would be a nice connection to Central and South America
ReplyDeleteAir Serbia does fly to many hubs with one-stop connection to Central and South America : LHR, FRA, CDG, AMS, JFK, MAD, LIS...
DeleteAll of those European hubs combined wouldn't be able to match AA's connections to Caribbean/Central America/South America out of MIA. It was even more impressive when AA had a relationship with LAN.
DeleteIf you cared to look at demand from Belgrade to Caribbean/Central America/South America airports you would find out most of that demand is already covered via European hubs. Miami has advantage (over Europe hubs) connecting to airports like Freeport Grand Bahama FPO and similar small airports that combined have just one digit percentage demand from BEG to the region. In other words, MIA advantage is irrelevant.
DeleteI think CEO politely pushed flights from BEG to YYZ to at least 2-3 years from now, or until further notice. Also, he hinted that Miami might be a better choice altogether. My question is what happened last month so all Air Canada flights being on Air Serbia tickets got cancelled. Who triggered this, and why? Many passengers are now strangled to find summer flights to Serbia since their paid tickets are not valid anymore.
ReplyDeleteToronto has one of the largest Serbian origins population in world. After LA and NY the biggest city in North America. Should be the top of the list by far.
ReplyDelete