The Greater Toronto Airports Authority (GTAA), which manages Toronto’s Pearson Airport, has told EX-YU Aviation News it is working on establishing flights to Belgrade. It comes after Air Serbia said it was evaluating potential operations to Canada’s largest city. “Serbia continues to be a target for Toronto Pearson to expand our global reach, and we are working closely with new and existing partners on how we can better serve both Serbia and Canada”, the GTAA said. It is understood that Air Serbia recently inquired over the airport’s terms and conditions for the potential introduction of flights. Nonstop services between Belgrade and Toronto were last operated in 1992.
Air Serbia said last month it was in the process of evaluating both Toronto and Miami of becoming its third destination in North America. The airline had previously noted that Toronto has very strong demand in the summer but is very seasonal. Despite this, it said the Canadian city is on its “priority list”. The Serbian carrier will introduce a three weekly service to Chicago on May 17 and will boost operations on its New York route to daily from June 18. The airline’s primary goal in the development of its long haul network remains the addition of flights to Beijing and Shanghai.
Air Serbia’s CEO, Jiri Marek, said last year that he could imagine Air Serbia operating a fleet of around five wide-body aircraft. However, Mr Marek now says, “As we're seeing at the moment, long haul is doing relatively well, so maybe more jets could be considered”. Air Serbia has short-listed a third A330 aircraft for its fleet. “For us, I call the A330 the ATR of the wide-bodies. It is the perfect aircraft for an airline of our size. It is a very profitable machine, especially with the lease rates we have since Covid”, Mr Marek said earlier this year.
"we are working closely with new and existing partners"
ReplyDeleteDoes this mean another airline is interested in this route?
Could be, let's just hope it's not the same carrier that operates zagreb flights
DeleteAir Canada already said that they were looking at BEG flights but were not happy with the number of frequencies they could operate as per the bilateral.
DeleteI somehow doubt JU will let another airline take this route.
DeleteWell it's not up to JU really, Canadian airlines can launch 2 weekly flights if they wish to do so.
DeleteSo If I understand correctly, a Canadian and Serbian airline can each launch 2 weekly flights? Or are two weekly flights available between the two countries in total?
DeleteFrom what I know, Serbia and Canada have 2 weekly frequencies each. So a Serbian and a Canadian airline can operate up to 4 weekly flights. They can increase the number of flights if they both agree to it.
DeleteIt's a shame JU is weak when it comes to alliances as they should have courted Westjet. They could have cooperate quite nicely as they are still relatively non-aligned. However, I don't think that would happen since they still haven't secured a code-share with a US carrier despite having a growing presence over there.
Why US carriers don't want to code share with JU on routes that they do not compete?
DeleteIs it politics?
Well, one could argue that JU for them is still a small player. However this should not be the case with B6 which has a massive operation in JFK and which is fighting DL for the market.
DeleteDaily BEG-JFK should make JU more appealing as a code-share partner. However JU needs to sell itself as a valuable partner. They haven't done so until now.
Let's face it, JU will be operating this route whenever it happens.
DeleteIs that something bad?
DeleteNo, just stating the obvious. Doubt there will be a Canadian airline on this route.
DeleteNo I don't think so, do you?
DeleteYYZ-BEG should be served on a summer seasonal basis by someone like Air Transat. It's a price sensitive market so it's best served by an airline with extremely low costs.
ReplyDeleteI don't think JU is in a position to expand its offer right now. They should cool off a little bit and focus on consolidating their current operations.
+1
DeleteForget Transat... Every single person that I know that flew with them (to Zag) because it was a "good deal " regretted it later! Lol
DeleteUnless you're a dwarf size, 300+ people on a A332 for 8hr+ is a no go for me.
Well, they are an LCC and this is a price sensitive market. Maybe it's best served by someone who is in that kind of business. People might have regretted flying with Transat but they keep on doing it again and again. It's similar to Ryanair or Wizz Air. People hate on them yet they keep booking flights with them
DeleteMy neighbours flew from Zagreb to Toronto with Transat and were perfectly happy and they are both tall people. I flew with Transat Paris to Montreal and was perfectly happy. I am not a dwarf size either.. Neither are several millions of satisfied passengers flying with them each year.
DeleteNemjee this service would likely commence summer of 2024, more than 12 months from now. Air Serbia will consolidate current operations by then.
DeleteWell, let's wait and see. We all thought they would have a smoother spring yet here we are. We also have to wait and see how BEG performs. The other day I heard that they are missing 500 people for the upcoming season. Don't know how true that is. However they have been looking for staff and they even teamed up with some celebrity who filmed a promo video of him working at the airport the whole day.
DeleteAir Transat is pretty value. Price, luggage allowance, risk of loosing suitcases, risk of talking talking to frustrated flight attendants is low compared to Air Canada.
DeleteWhy the did not include Belgrade yet, i don’t know. But they are decent summer destinations airline.
According to SeatGuru, Air Transat has more leg room on their A33x than Air Canada or Lufthansa.
Delete@Nemjee: Well, let's wait and see
DeleteThat's not how long haul lines are being introduced. Work is done well ahead. Official announcement for new transatlantic services are generally done in July-Sept timeframe for the following year.
Air Transat have more leg room in the center rows. Left and right rows could be tight with leg room.
DeleteIt's definitely happening, maybe even by the end of this year.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, it seems that Air Canada and Air Serbia have terminated their interline agreement.
ReplyDeleteWhy?
DeleteCould it be because of politics?
DeleteThe US carriers don't want to code share with ASL either.
Anon 09:43 Isn't it obvious, considering JU's owner's geopolitical stance?
DeleteIt has absolutely nothing to do with politics.
DeleteEverything is politics. sport, music and even code share agreements.
DeleteLets not be naive.
Can't wait to see JU in Toronto.
ReplyDeleteWould love to see that plane in Toronto :)
DeleteSame!! Lot of people dont know that YU-ARA landed at YYZ several years ago now. It was diverted while on its way to JFK due to weather. It was cought by a plane spotter and its on youtube. It was so much fun to see.
DeleteI remember, so cool.
DeleteHere it is:
Deletehttps://twitter.com/TomPodolec/status/949035024069820417/photo/2
https://twitter.com/TomPodolec/status/949068416748589056/photo/3
I was on that flight :)))
DeleteToronto has huge ex-yu and Balkan diaspora. I hope Air Serbia sees the potential in these flights.
ReplyDeleteSo does Frankfurt yet JU struggles there. If you take a look at FRA in the last 10 days they sent the E95 four times. Just like Frankfurt, Toronto is a Star Alliance fortress hub. Not only do they have a dominant Air Canada there they also have to face Lufthansa, Swiss...
DeleteIn order to succeed in such a market you need a very good and competitive commercial strategy and we all know this is something JU lacks.
ZRH is a Star Alliance hub but Air Serbia is doing great. Chicago is also Star Alliance hub. Advantage for Air Serbia is impressive regional network that can feed Toronto flights from Belgrade.
DeleteWell, JU didn't fail on all fronts, there are some where they did ok. No said otherwise. However, Toronto is not an easy airport to operate out of and that is why I think JU isn't rushing to launch it.
DeleteAlso I wouldn't call their regional network impressive. It's ok, decent but far from being impressive. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.
Delete+1
DeleteNemjee, the difference between frankfurt and toronto is that there is a road between frankfurt and ex-yu, as opposed to toronto and europe. In that way, people are forced to take a flight and not drive.
DeleteRomania/Moldova are still not covered.
Delete@Nemjee Well that's subjective. I think your aviation knowledge is also decent, but not impressive. In reality no other EX YU airline has better regional coverage. This will provide needed feed for Toronto flights:
Deletehttps://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiOYezZBPwuyrDleGF-wa1MTJ-Se2u9uJjhCNAeTn_h9VtxxW3V12QmPiJwaNJhK_Wp4nNntpWmnY1-a7FBeaMo6LvPOVoOdXnM7citXtVcxK7KWu7bTiywocg8Bo7ONRjQCpyxN0maXCRC1TWGGUWH4nuAAq994VP5IwHkrKFUsCEilcOv2PtYEyrUSg/s720/MAP2.gif
"no other EX YU airline has better regional coverage" doesn't mean impressive. Impressive is state of art, JU's regional network is not that. It is good though.
DeleteWhy are you using other ex-YU carriers for comparison? They are pathetic and not relevant. The moment JU decided to build a hub at BEG they were no longer in the same league.
DeleteWhether you like it or not, Air Serbia is now competing with Aegean, Turkish Airlines, Austrian Airlines, LOT and especially with Lufthansa which is extremely strong in the Balkans.
When your average Greek in Athens is looking at his options to JFK or Copenhagen, he is not going to be looking at Air Montenegro or Croatia Airlines, he is going to check airlines I mentioned above.
Air Serbia's network, number of frequencies and on time performance are key in making them competitive in these markets. That is why Air Serbia's regional coverage is decent but it is far from being impressive.
It will become impressive the moment they will offer three daily departures to all destinations in the region.
Star Alliance was extremely strong in the region back in 2016 when Air Serbia started New York with just one widebody and smaller regional network yet Air Serbia grew the service, made it profitable and is now expanding to Chicago - another Star Alliance hub. Pretty much destroyed your pathetic arguments.
DeleteThe perfect solution would be Toronto summer season, Miami winter seasonal.
ReplyDeleteHave a feeling Beijing, Shanghai and Miami will be launched this winter, Toronto maybe in 2024.
ReplyDeleteThe route will perform very well, especially if they attract more transfer passengers
ReplyDeleteLong overdue in my opinion
ReplyDeleteIf Air Serbia were to eventually launch these flights, a codeshare with Air Canada would be very beneficial and would guarantee more passengers.
ReplyDeleteWhy would Air Canada sign a code-share agreement with them when they have Lufthansa Group as their main partner?
DeleteLet JU first secure a code-share with AA or B6.
Air Canada codeshares with Lufthansa to Belgrade.
DeleteAC-LH codeshare to BEG ended some time ago as far as I'm aware.
DeleteNo it didn't end
DeleteDelta would be a perfect partner since they have very little presence from sky team
DeleteIn ex yu. Hence dtw with a codeshare with be the best solution.
AC - LH codeshare exists in Belgrade. I flew from Belgrade to Vancouver via Frankfurt and Chicago, and all 3 flights had AC flight designation.
DeleteThis route would be good for cargo too.
ReplyDeleteTrue dat. There are about 20 or so 'naše prodavnice' in the wider Toronto area. So food products like plazma keks, smoki, and ajvar could be imported directly with JU.
DeleteThere is also a Serbian book shop in Toronto. They import a lot of books.
DeleteThere are also at least 10 "nase prodavnice" in Vrancouver area and it is all imported through Toronto- probably in Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg and other cities too. That could be beneficial to JU cargo department/compartment...
DeleteI think they first need to solidify their current network and aircraft before thinking of further expansions especially long-haul ones. The young airline does not yet have enough experience handling various lines, especially wider body ones. Once Chicago and Tanjin go well, they might consider YYZ, which is still a relatively seasonal destination.
ReplyDeleteThey need to Carpe diem.
Delete
Delete@Anon 09:31 The young airline does not yet have enough experience handling various lines, especially wider body ones
Does 95 years of experence mean anything? Flying A330 to JFK for almost eight years? Or this YU-AMB widebody from 1990 or 91 at YYZ?
This one:
Deletehttps://www.airliners.net/photo/JAT-Yugoslav-Airlines/McDonnell-Douglas-DC-10-30/288138/L
I doubt it will be before summer 2024.
ReplyDeleteAnd now, Lagos! 😃
ReplyDeleteOn a more serious note : UAE and Canada recently renegotiated their bilateral and Emirates is increases frequency to Canada. Maybe some new winds are blowing in Canadian administration. Maybe the result will be change in bilateral with Serbia too, and service to BEG as well, either by JU or one of canadian carriers
DeleteI'm afraid these bilaterals are negotiated with political rather than business considerations in mind.
DeleteCanada is very protectionist towards Air Canada. It took 10 years for Canada to give in and allow UAE to get more flights.
DeleteDidn't that Skyservice airline fly between Toronto and Belgrade during the 2000s?
ReplyDeleteYes, but they were not nonstop. It had a technical stop in Dublin. The B757 could not make it.
DeleteThey flew to both ZAG and BEG. But it was just once weekly each, with narrowbody B757 and with technical landing in Dublin, both directions
DeleteForgot they had a stop. Thanks,
DeleteIt would be fantastic to be linked with Canada in addition to USA.
ReplyDeleteWow fantastic find, EX YU Aviation! It's not every day airports are willing to disclose info about potential new routes! This could mean deal is done or almost done, Air Serbia is coming to Toronto!
ReplyDeleteAwesome news, looking forward to Toronto service announcement from the airline in the next couple of months.
Or AC and that is why they canceled the interline
DeleteOr both, just like Belgrade to Lisbon. Long drought without any service then two operators almost at the same time.
DeleteWas Belgrade Airport contacted by Air Canada or Air Transat regarding service introduction?
DeleteWhen could Toronto or Miami be added to the network? This winter or summer 2024?
ReplyDeleteBoth are possible. But like someone said, China will be their priority for this winter, so I think North America expansion will come next summer.
DeleteAre there flights from Toronto to any country in the region other than Croatia? And I don't mean ex-Yu region I mean wider region. Thanks
ReplyDeleteGreece, Turkey, Austria
DeleteAir Canada flies to Athens from both Toronto and Montreal and Air Canada Rouge planned Bucharest with their B767 but Covid happened and the service was cancelled if I remember correctly
DeleteAir Canada and Air Transat fly to ATH from YYZ and YUL.
DeleteBoth seasonal
DeleteBetter to focus on US network.
ReplyDeleteOr China.
DeleteI would prioritise Shanghai, Beijing, and Miami and then launch Toronto, in that order.
DeleteAgree!
Delete@10.41 they already said that China is their priority so I don't know what you are on about.
DeleteTalking about China, bro.
DeleteCan't wait
ReplyDeleteToronto makes sense seasonally only, at least in the beginning
ReplyDeleteIf a Canadian airline launches flights it will be seasonal for sure
DeleteOne cannot only meet the existing demand - one needs to create it too. The route is heavily seasonal - alright, but then work on alleviating that seasonality, work out the transfer markets, invest in some marketing, so that people are aware they can fly throughout the year.
ReplyDeleteJFK did not happen overnight.
True dat.
DeleteToronto has more tourists and more tourism revenue than Budapest.
DeleteLOL who comes to visit Toronto, and what is there to see Glass tall buildings and concrete ? Canada publish tourist numbers based on 70% of people visiting their families, and most of those come from India and Pakistan ( data shows most tourists visa are issued by those 2 countries). I do not see much interest from Europe to visit Toronto as a tourist destination.
DeleteWell fortunately for you I live in Toronto and have met a lot of tourists and I also work at YYZ, therefore you have no basis for your statement. There are tons of toursits from UK, Germany, France etc and things to see and do in North America’s 4th largest city not to mention amazing concerts and events throughout the year, multi cultural gastronomy from every corner of the world, beautiful natur around the lake Ontario, marinas, parks, hiking trails, Niagara Falls area, sand beaches at Woodbine Park and Toronto Islands, not to mentioned historical sites like Casa Loma, Fort York, then Canada’s Wonderland etc. How ignorant can you be to make a such statement?
DeleteAnon 19:13 bravo reply! (from another Torontonian)
DeleteSpeaking of long haul services does anyone have information how is TSN performing now? is there cargo too?
ReplyDeleteThe CEO said several times in recent interviews that the flights are full, profitable and they have a lot of cargo on the route. They are trying to increase frequencies but Chinese authorities are slow in giving approvals.
DeleteAir Serbia should watch how Chicago performs this summer and especially in winter .
ReplyDeleteIf the route is succesfull than skip Toronto for another time but increase frequencies to Chicago and NYC for summer 2024 !
Increase NYC-BEG to eleven weekly and ORD-BEG to five weekly .
This would make Air Serbia much more competitive in future - especially if another airlines were also interested in starting flying that routes .
Toronto should be considered earliest in 2025 .
DeleteChicago will perform horribly in the winter. Not hating, just the reality. Same would happen to Toronto if they launch it as year-round. So no, better idea is to launch Toronto next year as summer seasonal twice weekly than to dilute yield with 5 weekly Chicago.
Anyone knows how sales are going for Chicago?
Delete^
Deletehttps://www.exyuaviation.com/2023/03/air-serbia-prepares-for-chicago-service.html
Why is everyone so hyped over Toronto?
ReplyDeleteI know it used to be one of JAT’s destinations and one of the most important cities in Canada and North America.
However, there are numerous disadvantages, including a strict bilateral agreement not favouring Air Serbia; Toronto Pearson is an expensive airport to operate to/from; Air Canada is closely cooperating with Lufthansa on transatlantic routes; numerous connecting options in Europe on all major carriers. Codeshare on the Canadian side does not exist. Canadian visa is rather tricky to obtain. As said before, traffic is highly seasonal and directional, and yields under these circumstances are questionable.
I am not saying Air Serbia should give up on Toronto, but perhaps there are destinations where the A332s can be deployed ad be more profitable.
Well maybe they know how many pax come from Toronto via another airport to Belgarde.
DeleteIts quite simple. YYZ is one if not the best not ditect served locations. They need it and will start it sooner then later.
Eight
DeleteI think you hit the bull eyes
Close Air canada cooperation with Lufthansa group is the MAIN reason why not Belgrade yet. Hence AC transfer options Fra, Muc, Vienna, Zurich are favoured versus other hubs in Europe.
Eight if you paid attention, all those questions were already answered.Try to build some knowledge before recycling old myths.Don't expect warm and fuzzy responses.
DeleteVery simple answer, Toronto is the most non-direct underserved destination for BEG, meaning most connecting pax to and from BEG go to YYZ via other airlines. Not sure how much more clarity this fact needs.
Delete@ Anonymous21:37
DeleteDear Anonymous 21:37, I gave up on constructive answers, let alone warm and fuzzy ones, ages ago. So I asked a simple question in the first sentence, hoping to receive the answer. I listed the YYZ disadvantages and hoped someone would have a fact to make me think twice.
Anonymous19:17
DeleteDear Anonymous 19:17, the only answer I can provide is "A lot!". However, just being popular does not mean being profitable in current circumstances.
What is the source of this news? I did not see anything from GTAA. This looks like nice clickbait.
ReplyDeleteThe source is GTAA which responded to an inquiry by EX-YU Aviation News, as indicated in the first sentence of the article.
DeletePlus I work at the GTAA and the story is true. We will not publish this as the route is not confirmed yet but JU did reach out to us and was given information as the article states already
Delete