The Slovenian Minister for Economic Development and Technology, Matjaž Han, has confirmed the country will continue to advance plans to establish a new national airline. It comes after speculation the government may shelve the initiative following the recent devastating floods in the country and changes to the state budget aimed at shoring up funds for the recovery effort. "Slovenia needs an airline, it's a matter of discussion under what conditions, and it will definitely need a strategic partner. We should not be complacent just because there are enough airports in our neighbourhood", Mr Han noted over the weekend. Previously, the government said additional details about the planned new carrier set to replace Adria Airways, which went bankrupt almost four years ago, would be outlined this autumn.
Mr Han, alongside the Minister for Infrastructure, Alenka Bratušek, have been staunch supporters of establishing a new airline, although not all their cabinet colleagues have shared the same enthusiasm. The Slovenian government is seeking a strategic partner to help set up the airline and share the financial burden of running the business. The state has held talks with several potential investors, including Amelia International, Cyprus Airways and Croatia Airlines. “My feeling is that they are interested. The goal is to find a strategic partner that could perform approximately sixty operations per week to eleven destinations from Slovenia”, Ms Bratušek said.
In its final full month of operations out of Ljubljana in August 2019, Adria Airways performed a total of 1.513 flight operations (both inbound and outbound) and had 146.813 seats on the market. At the time, it maintained scheduled flights out of the Slovenian capital to Amsterdam, Brussels, Copenhagen, Frankfurt, Munich, Paris, Prague, Pristina, Podgorica, Sarajevo, Skopje, Sofia, Paris, Tirana, Vienna and Zurich. Furthermore, it operated regular charter services to Antalya, Barcelona, Corfu, Chios, Karpathos, Kefalonia, Kos, Heraklion, Hurghada, Lemnos, Manchester, Preveza, Rhodes, Santorini, Samos, Lamezia Terme, Tel Aviv and Zakynthos. Out of the scheduled services, Ljubljana Airport is yet to find alternatives for flights to Copenhagen, Prague, Pristina, Sarajevo, Sofia, Tirana and Vienna.
I would love to know which 11 routes they would launch.
ReplyDeleteMe too. I can't think of 11 destinations they could introduce and wouldn't overlap with other airlines.
DeleteVOZNI RED Št. 1
DeleteFRA 7
BRU 11
SKP 7
PRN 7
MUC 7
ZRH 6
VIE 4
CPH 3
BER 3
ATH 2
AMS 3
Those who are not covered from LJU (ZRH, BRU, VIE, MUC, CPH, AMS, maybe they will even go for FRA as LH won't have so many passengers with their prices when there will be 3-4 other morning departures to EU hubs). Now it's easy for them as they don't have any competition.
DeleteWho will fly every day from Skopje to Ljubljana now that Wizz will launch three weekly flights on the route? The only connection could be Amsterdam, and we already have OU, OS, JU, LH, TK, LO..
DeleteWhat about SJJ, it's essential given that 10% are Bosnians
Delete@11.19 lots of others. Not everybody like you travels on lcc's. Bizarno!
Delete@13:36 how did you come with this constatation that i use lcc? The only bizzare thing here is your unlogical suggestion that some newish airline can make 7 weekly flights to Skopje which has better connection with Europe then LJU profitable, although we have JU, OU, OS, LH, LO, TK, A3...
DeleteThe routes mentioned above are taken from the macroeconomic study, are only a theoretical sample, based on Adria's network and have nothing to do with the current situation and plans. The demand and marked have changed a lot, I assume the initial routes (and frequencies) will be much different.
DeleteWhy make an airline when there are lots of nearby airports. What about the EU policy on protecting the environment?! It's all just fake when it applies to EU member states.
Delete@16:38 Are you for real? You think that one new airline will harm the environment?! There will be so much air pollution now yeah you are right! Then it is better to drive 30min to LJU airport and catch a flight from there instesed of driving 2h to VCE or ZAG for doibg the same thing. I really don't understand your comment. I am searching for logic but there isn't any.
DeleteAll of this destinations makes sense only with cooperation with star alliance for connecting flights.
DeleteDo they think Lufthansa would magically stop flying to Ljubljana when this new airline launches (if it launches)
ReplyDeleteWell at one point they said how they would try to make a codeshare with Lufthansa and take over some routes.
DeleteSo it would be Adria version 2
DeleteLufthansa doesn't need to stop flying. The flights from the new airline would just be an additional weekly frequency.
Delete11 routes by the plan they presented means the following: riskier plan - e190 or a220, instead of e170 and a bigger investmnet. Which is a positive sign, especially as Cyprus has some A220 on order and Amelia is operating Embraers (although the wrong type, but MRO is there)
ReplyDeleteInteresting. I thought they would give up on it.
ReplyDeleteThey won't give up, as I said before they will go for it because it's obvious that Slovenia need it's own airline. Also figures shows that.
DeleteAgree with you.
DeleteWhy to go to ZAG and flying from there if you could have your own airline flying from LJU?
Well, they kept flying from ZAG and other airports when they had Adria too. So...
DeleteI wish them a luck and success.
ReplyDeleteWith the global economic downturn rolling around the corner next year
DeleteI don't know if this is the right time to open up an airline. But I wish them good luck nevertheless!
A Lufthansa feeder at Slovenian taxpayer's expense!
ReplyDeleteIf you are a feeder it does not mean that you can't benefit from it. with current schedule biggest looser is Slovenian economy.
DeleteIt is better to have good feeding connections to major European hubs than not to.
DeleteAnd you do not have them now?
DeleteI wonder if their model will be similar to Adria in that they will try to get transfer passengers or purely P2P airline
ReplyDeletethere is no legacy carrier without transfer passengers. I am quite sure that their business model will be more or less same as JP had, which is totally fine. And now I'm waiting for those who claims that JP was money burner and then we can talk about costs in next posts :) Don't forget that we had really good connectivity at that time!
DeleteThere are a few scenarios on the table, a Croatia airlines proposal which is an expensive replication of Adria model, but a few others as well, totally different (looks more promising).
DeleteIn my opinion it would logical to attract transfer passengers as well.
Delete@9.13, OU barely manages to run its own business and they are suggesting a plan for LJU?!
DeleteYes, they are proposing a plan, delivered by Mr. Jasmin in person.
DeleteThe only plan that would make sense is to complement *A network, not to compete with them. At least not at the beginning. Low frequency start to unserved routes, efficient airplane (which is not CRJ9) and focus on inbound tourism is something that might be successful and totally different from old Adria story. Look at the LUX route, how good the booking is even before the start.
ReplyDeleteI'm not really sure about the booking for LUX. The sold out flights that were appearing are no longer showing as sold out, it was probably a system glitch. Only flight that is sold out is the inaugural, and I assume there are airline officials and media on that flight.
DeleteI'm flying lux route 12 times till new years, and all my flights (judging by seat selection) are above 50% full, i booked most of them 14 days ago.
DeleteI can see a lot of people choosing to fly to Lux and then going to Brussels or even Amsterdam by train. The route seems to be a hit and a potential goldmine for Luxair, especially on Dash 8s. 3.5h on train to Brussels is still faster than a flight to Brussels via Waw or Fra (and hella cheaper)
You know that there are direct flights to Brussels, right?
DeleteYes and they are selling for 650€ one way, and in winter there are only 4x weekly flights with questionable timetable
Delete+1 11:35, that's the answer for those who claims that we have connection to BRU. We don't have it! Prices are extremely high + schedule is total disaster.
DeleteI didnt know that, last year i know i was checking them cause i planned one trip and the tickets were around 60 euros, but Wizz Air was also operating the route back then. Mayne now that they have no competition they can easly put the prices up.
DeleteYes i was right, Brussels - Ljubljana on October 18th is 72 euros. I dont know what you are talking about.
DeleteTotally depends on the day and when you book your trip. For myself I know I'll be flying max a week in advance, and in that case most of the flights are either full or the prices are ramped up
DeleteAnn 12:38
DeleteLjubljana Brussels 18.10. Airbus A319 Flight number: SN 3344 PRICE: 261€
I said Brussels - Ljubljana not LJU-BRU. Read first! Also, of course the prices will be up if u book your trip one week before the flight.
DeleteHaha, that means flights are cheap. Adria was selling them for 900EUR. Years ago.
DeleteWhen, in the 90s when that price was normal?!
DeleteIs there any indication when they plan to launch the new airline? Next summer? Or is that too optimistic
ReplyDeleteBratusek was saying it won't be anytime soon and most likely in summer 2025.
DeleteMost optimistic scenario W24, but realistic one is S25.
DeleteWhoa, Slovenia. You say we need to pay extra taxes for every little thing in this country because 'there isn't enough money,' but when it comes to setting up an 'airline,' we have so much money lying around that it's not even an issue? Or will we raise taxes for this as well, not only to set it up but to cover its losses in the future? The fact that this whole 'project' is being set up by the same people who've destroyed the aviation sector many times over is a whole other story.
ReplyDeleteDo you realize that we are actually losing money because of lack of connectivity? And loss because of that is much higher then those 5-10 mio per year we had with JP.
DeleteWho is 'we'? I'm not losing any money because of it, but I'll definitely have to pay for Adria 2.0. And do you realize that a 'national carrier' won't provide the connectivity you're searching for? Just like before when we had Adria, and all sportspeople returning from competitions were filmed arriving at TRS or VCE. Is this the connectivity you're referring to?
DeleteOf course you are losing money because of it, you are paying that loss through taxes. And our sportsmen mainly arrived with JP to LJU, even on last fight JP transferred Volleyball team who came home with silver medal.
DeleteOne month before the collapse of Adria there was a sport team on my plane from Skopje to Treviso...
DeleteWhich teams? JP had daily flight SKP - LJU. Maybe it was NK Koper team so it's more convenient to go to Treviso instead of LJU.
DeleteIdk which team it was but the CRJ9 of JP landed just before we take off and they were shocked.
DeleteProbably there was no space for all of them in the little CRJ
DeleteA bit of a weird question, but I notice in the photo a catering truck and it got me thinking, did Adria have inhouse catering or a outsourced supplier? And I wonder what happened to them when Adria went bankrupt.
ReplyDeleteI believe it was inhouse though in economy they just sold food. I know that they are selling catering trucks as part of the bankruptcy estate so it closed just like the airline.
DeleteHow much was Adria bleeding the state budget per year before they sold it?
ReplyDeleteDo you have some statistic from that period?
around 10 mio €
DeleteThey should have never sold it.
Delete@ 9:32
DeleteYou're absolutely right. They should have shut it down in 2008, at the very latest, when it needed over 50 million from the budget at a time when people were losing jobs left and right.
I know I am right.
DeleteThe amount of money Slovenia lost due to terrible connectivity and the amount of money Slovenians left in surrounding airports is much higher.
In 2008 there was world economic crisis but still I did not see that LH, AF, OS, LO, KL...closed their operations due to the people who were losing their jobs.
This 'connectivity' is a cheap selling point, much like 'nacionalni interes' was before. Enjoy paying for it through your teeth! And remember this whenever you use poor schools, awful healthcare, and disastrous roads. Remember that you're paying for the luxury of 'connectivity' that will never exist.
DeleteSlovenia does not have poor schools and terrible roads.
DeleteThis whining reminds me on poor tax payers who are "forced to support" national carrier as we saw these phrases often in Serbia and now we have the situation that national carrier paid back the money to these poor tax payers, but it seems nobody of you whiners wants to see it.
If you want to have something back you need first to invest in it. I suppose connectivity is also not important to airBaltic or Luxair (their countries are smaller than Slovenia) and that is a reason they do not spread their wings in the region and open new destinations.
Oh, wait...
And don't forget that connectivity is bridge to other country, I really don't see a reason why Slovenia should build all the bridges which were destroyed by floods. People should drive for 1 more and cross the damn river and stop whining about poor infrastructure. This all goes to those who claims that we should drive to ZAG / VCE / VIE to go on our flights.
DeleteSorry but comparing the Serbian aviation market to Slovenian is pointless.
DeleteLJU will never support a legacy carrier again. Never. The city is too small and there is too much competition very close (VCE, ZAG, GRZ, PUY, RJK, TRS).
Adria only existed because of constant state support.
I agree that Slovenia is suffering economic hardships because of a lack of connectivity but the responsible solution is to follow SKP's lead. Getting Wizz or Ryanair to base 4 or 5 jets will give them 20 times more connectivity at a lower price.
Sorry but comparing Slovenia and North Macedonia is even more pointless. Slovenia does not have millions of gastoz around the world, neither we are country for mass tourism and those are two main reasons why LCC will establish base on certain airport. LJU will never be one of them, never!!!
DeleteDon't you think that one of those LCC would already applied, Slovenia offered huge amount of money for routes.. Our one and only solution is to have national carrier, or to drive to ZAG/VCE/VIE.
We have here one with 13 destinations, but it has to come with its own thieves. Are you interested dear neighbors?
ReplyDeleteHhahahahah, thanks but no thanks.
DeleteToo bad! We would be more than happy to get rid of them, and asap 😃
DeleteDear neighbors, don't you worry about it! I'm more than convinced that this new airline will bring the good old masterminds from Adria back and our brand new airline will be just as shiny as yours!
DeleteAnd we can continue singing together Danke Deutschland!
DeleteAdmin: Copenhagen is missing in the text
ReplyDeleteCan't wait to see this get off the ground
ReplyDeleteHappy to hear the project is going ahead
ReplyDeleteI would like to see them in BEG although they could not compete against Air Serbia.
ReplyDeleteThey could for p2p.
DeleteIm sure airserbia would love to codeshare if that means they have early morning departure out from Ljubljana. Like 6.30ish
DeleteHoping this materializes.
ReplyDeleteWell if they have any actual chance of setting this up, they have to be quicker. It's taking them a year and nothing concrete is out yet. Meanwhile air Montenegro was set up in 6 months
ReplyDeleteAgree. They better hurry up with this
DeleteAre they still going to call it Air Slovenia?
ReplyDeleteI think we are not at the point of brainstorming names for the airline yet
DeleteOnce one person on here said that they should be named Air Slovenistan, and with all the saga and no results...I agree!
DeleteAir Slovenistan is going to be expensive, and it will do nothing to improve connectivity.
ReplyDeleteHow do you know it will be expensive and that it won't improve connectivity?
DeleteHe does not know, he does not have a clue about aviation as well.
DeleteWhere is Paris? Where is Berlin? Where is Rome?
ReplyDeleteI don't think they would be able to compete against Air France and Transavia to Paris. As for Berlin, it didn't work for easyjet either.
DeleteBerlin flights were 95% full every time, same as LTN is for Wizz now but they reduced it from 3 to 2 weekly. It's yields LLCs are worried about
DeleteIn France. In Germany. In Italy. 😃
DeleteBerlin should be a no-brainer. Not served from Zagreb or Trieste. With Rome, it depends because there are three daily from Trieste and it would be hard to compete with that but I would still like to see it and would definitely use the route.
DeleteThere's a little chit chat that Amelia is ready to do it, but with ATRs, E145s and A319/20 s so they don't have to introduce a new type to the fleet. ATR makes complete sense and A319 is good for Berlin, Amsterdam and Scandinavia. Let's wait and see, but if Amelia partners up with the government I actually expect positive outcome, compared to the likes of Cyprus air or Croatia
ReplyDeleteSlo government should think and improve own infrastructure and try to ease roads traffic jams. Improved and modernised Public transport would be solution rather supporting western style. Each house hold have multiple vehicles. Most journeys are done by single person. For instance flight London -Ljubljana or Zagreb 2hrs . Transfer by public transport (bus or train )let say to Ptuj (oldest town in SLO which should attract tourist and generate income/ much loved taxes and not be a ghost town with crumbling state own castle ) 4 or more hrs from both airports Vienna might be actually faster. What a joke. Trains should be fast and effective not like 100 years ago?? New airlines should run Hercules, belugas so we can take our own vehicle on each flight. Might be cheaper then renting. But what's the point as you will stack in traffic Jamm.More or less there is ethical and environmental reason. Not everyone can drive or simply want to commute by car. For small and transit country this is alarming. We are in Europe and not in remote Alaska
ReplyDeleteThey better do not charge 50-80 EUR for taxi to Ljubljana. It is the only normal option. Bus to Ljubljana takes similar times as the bus from Ljubljana to Zagreb.
ReplyDelete60€ for 45min with waiting time is not "criminal", but it's also not cheap. There's always 5€ bus that takes 1h or GoOpti which is shared option. Myself I order taxi before flying with the same guy every time - it's easiest and in most cases cheapest option
DeleteAirport taxi drivers are scamming tourists, everybody know that... with a support of Fraport. It is NOT normal to pay 80 EUR from the airport to Ljubljana city center (25km, 25 min).
DeleteWith the 60 weekly operations they outline, that means 30 departing flights from LJU. That's about 2 weekly flights for most routes.
ReplyDeleteI don't think thats how it works.
Delete^ what do you mean?
DeleteSo you believe they will fly to FRA or MUC twice a week?
DeleteWell with 60 operations and 11 routes it doesn't leave much. That's 22 weekly flights if everything is 2 weekly, which leaves 8 extra weekly flights which would probably be distributed between FRA and MUC
DeleteOne weekly flight is LJU-FRA and FRA-LJU. So on average 60 weekly flights and 11 routes is around 5-6 flights a week per route.
DeleteWell she said 60 operations. That means 30 each way. Had she said 60 weekly flights then that is what you are saying. But maybe she doesen't know what she is talking about which wouldn't surprise me
DeleteAdria's charer netwotk was impressive. Everything was taken over by Trade Air.
ReplyDeleteThe catastrophic flooding should make it obvious that climate change is real. More flights is the last thing the environment needs. If you you want to subsidize transportation, trains have a minimal impact on the environment. Those flights and the tourism associated with them, didn't get close to covering the costs of the flood damage, flying helped cause.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you even on an aviation portal then?
DeleteAviation is responsible for around 2% of global CO2 emissions, and that's assuming that CO2 emissions are directly related to climate change, which is a big if. In short, go peddle your doomsday scenarios somewhere else.
DeleteRegardless of the fact, that I'm avid fan of Adria 2.0, I'm afraid it is too little, to late. First of all, there are three kind of people when it comes to this topic: those for, those against (and they are usually starch neo-liberals) and those who don't care. The second group is full of hate and prejudice and are constantly nagging about how Adria was loosing money. But there has never been official review of that. The fact is, that if strict control was imposed upon Adria (not only managament, but also so called third parties within the company, who had major impact on how Adria was run and operated), it would still be very much alive today. It had very successful and well run flight school among other things.
ReplyDeleteThere were many problems, but many self imposed, such as rogue ticket agents, selling tickets on behalf of Adria and never paying for it (damage measured in millions), unhealthy contract with Petrol (on request of the representatives of the State), where Adria was not only paying much more, but even had an article in the contract, that they are to pay compensation if certain ammount of fuel was not purchased in certain time frame. This was also confirmed by many captains, who were complaining they had to re-fill their aircraft in LJU and then burn the fuel with longer routes. Second factor was a group of influencing captains, who had big impact on some decisions which proved fatal later on (for the company). One definetly was rushed switch from MD82 fleet to CRJ 200, another unfawourable lease of two A319 (and spare engines), unprofessional and plain lazy sales people, unwilling to utilize A320 and A319 during winter seasons (repeatedly) on charter/WET lease contracts, as there would be no planes to operate their usual routes (and we know that they were flying half empty). Unwillingles to train crews for other operators (as this was deemed unhealthy), regardless of the fact that crews were conducting simulator sessions with Air Berlin in the middle of the night, to save some money....
I could go on and on. Its the same story as with JAT, public and popular perception on how well both performed is far from reality. People were fed with badtime stories they believed withouth questioning.
It is also interesting, that among Slovene politicians who were harshly against new Adria, citing that they will not pay for it, were happy users of ID90 discounts. The documentation is unfortunately not at hand any more, it would make them look realy stupid...
As I stated many times, in order to have connectivity from and to Slovenia, one needs small fleet and many frequencies. The most lucrative ones are already taken, LJU is no longer hub for Kosovars and Macedonians, as everybody is flying point to point to Kosovo, and serving more or less only diaspora. There was no political will (as govt at the time was portraying Adria as service for leftwing politicians only) immediately after the collapse. Now there is nothing left. No airplanes, no crew, no HQ, no other services needed to run and operate an airliner. That boat has parted long time ago.
And at the end of the day....flight operations need to downsize significanlty. It is not sustainable to have a privilage to fly from any village to anywhere in Europe and further for peanuts. Because if you have noticed - all major airliners have adopted to no frills logic....low yield per seat is combated with quantity. This can't end well.
And on top of that....it was Bratusek who put Adria on list for privatisation. Privatisation means no control over development. Same happend with all other aviation infrastructure (with exceptinon of ATC service) - everything sold out and now they have no control over whole industrial branch. Go figure....
This is a really nice review that covers more than one point of view, salut. Regarding Adria v2.0, I still do not see it feasible as a public company, I think it's only viable to have two (quite conservative) investment fonds as shareholders, in order to keep finances tight. Otherwise...
DeleteMoreover, I still believe that feasibility is in regional ownership, not solely Slovenian. To be precise, to have it as joint Slovenian, Montenegrin and Bosnian flag carrier, owned both by all three states and private capital from each country, and built at the remains od Adria, Montenegro Airlines, BH Airlines and Air Montenegro...
I can't see a single unserved route ex Ljubljana, from this article list, that can be profitable year long.
ReplyDeleteAm I missing something?
Yes you are - national airline is there to bring profits in the country not to make money. Tourism, business and diplomacy would both gain by having a national carrier (even if by itself is losing money)
Delete@13.44
DeleteOnly about 10 % of tourists come to Croatia by plane. I believe it's similar situation with Slovenia, due to proximity of the most important emitive markets. Tourists on Croatia Airlines are roughly 30 % (70 % counting for ethnic pax, domestic services pax and business pax). Croatia Airlines overall share on croatian market is 15 %. 30 % tourists out of 15 % pax share is roughly 5 %. If we go on and apply this 5 % to 10 % tourists coming overall to Croatia, we come to the number of 0,5 of all tourists visiting Croatia using OU. For 40 million euro per year. And Slovenia would be similar. And for the end, generally, I am not against idea of Adra 2, Air Slovenia or whatever it might be called. But stating tourism as the first reason why it should be re-started is in my opinion not entirely correct or justified
I lol everytime when i read that an airline doesnt need to be profit making
DeleteAnd we are laughing to you, simple as that.
Delete800k foreign tourists arrived annually by plane to Slovenia before COVID and Adria collapse. It's less than half of it today. The rest are not flying to ZAG or VCE, they are not driving instead, they are simply flying somewhere else.
Delete@14.44 remind us please why Adria said Adios?
DeleteAnon 14:44,
DeleteWell the EU is laughing at you because they do not allow never ending state support of national airlines (Something that Adria 2.0 would definitely be dependent on)
"they do not allow never ending state support" I stopped reading after that.
DeleteOU is the perfect example of never ending state support in EU
DeleteWhat has changed in Slovenia for them to think this one will survive unlike the last one they had???
ReplyDeleteeverything! Firsts of all now they know that they can not rely on hope that foreign airlines will start operating in Slovenia. Not just to add few flights but to base aircrafts in LJU. So actually everything has changed!
DeleteOk and how would that help the new airline survive exactly?
DeleteThere is some conspiracy that foreigners are responsible for the demise of Adria. That they somehow took a healthy airline and destroyed it.
The truth is that Adria was in constant crisis for a LONG time before that with large accumulated losses. They were on the absolute verge of insolvency before privatization. Selling the airline simply gave them a brief extra time to operate.
A new Slovenian national airline would be in an even WORSE situation than Adria was in.
The simple matter of fact is that no national airline of Slovenia will ever exist without never-ending life support, with no hope of ever recouping the investment.
Sounds like Ukraine abit surviving on donations and borrowed money
DeleteManchester (or Liverpool), please.
ReplyDeleteMuch needed but this is EU routes only
DeleteEleven daily to Vrankvurt and Minhen ..?!
ReplyDeleteNormalno brate. Možda 2 ili 3 dnevno za Zurich i Brussels
DeleteWould that hurt ZAG?
ReplyDeleteI would really like to visit Ljubljana from Vienna. The train service (6h+ during the day) just is not attractive for a weekend getaway style short vacation. Was disappointed that everyone else in the LH group flies to LJU but OS doesn't. So yeah hope there will be some flight connection soon, whoever operates it.
ReplyDeleteOS claimed they are interested, but they have all capacity planned for the next 2 years, so we can not expect anything from LH group very soon. Plus they are happy to bring transferring passengers to FRA and MUC instead VIE, for heavy price.
DeleteAir Sloveceljnstan much ado about nothing
ReplyDeleteLju airport should lower fees and there will be plenty of airline routes.
ReplyDelete