China Southern Airlines, one of the world’s largest carriers, plans to commence flights between its hub in Guangzhou and Belgrade by the end of the year, according to Guangzhou Airport. The announcement was made during the Guangzhou Aviation Hub High-quality Development Conference. According to Guangzhou Airport, China Southern Airlines will maintain two weekly flights between the Chinese megacity and Belgrade, while Air Serbia will commence a one weekly service between the two. According to the Chinese airport, both airline will commence the flights by the end of the year. Air Serbia and China Southern Airlines held talks in Guangzhou this week, with the Serbian carrier also attending the Development Conference.
China Southern Airlines, established in 1988, is the country’s largest carrier. Based in Guangzhou and operates a comprehensive network of domestic and international routes. The airline boasts a modern fleet of over 650 aircraft, making it one of the largest in Asia and the world. It connects major global destinations across Asia, Europe, North America, as well as Australia and New Zealand and boasts a route network of over 250 destinations.
During an official visit to Serbia last month, China’s President Xi Jinping, called on for the introduction of more flights between the two countries. “We encourage airlines from both sides to launch more flights between the two countries, as well as direct flights between Belgrade and Guangzhou”, Mr Xi said in May. If the plans materialise, China Southern Airlines will become the second Chinese carrier to serve Belgrade after Hainan Airlines, which maintains services from Beijing, and likely the third scheduled wide-body operator at the airport. Air Serbia intends to introduce its services to Shanghai and Guangzhou by the end of the year, complementing its existing flights to Tianjin. The airline had previously noted both routes would likely be launched with a lower number of frequencies.
Great news! 787?
ReplyDeleteCould be A330
DeleteHopefully A380
DeleteThey don't operate A380 anymore :(
DeleteThat's a shame, that was such a stunning aircraft in their livery
DeleteA350 is possible too :D but I do think it will be an A330.
DeleteBEG doesn't even have a gate capable of serving an A388
DeleteActually it does!
DeleteBEG doesn't have the certification to handle aircraft with a wingspan of over 65m. Aircraft such as the B747-400, B777-300 and A350 can use BEG, but A380 and B747-8 cannot. Category E aircraft (ie A330, A350, B777, B787) when using BEG limits the use of certain stands and taxiways for other aircraft. Full detailed information is on both the SMATSA and BEG websites.
DeleteI cannot decide which of the 3 large Chinese airlines has the ugliest visual identity. Maybe CZ?
DeleteCA. They have not changed their CAAC livery since the 1960s except for the bird logo instead of the Chinese flag.
DeleteHave you ever seen China Eastern?
DeleteThe new MU livery is eurowhite and is just fine.
DeleteWow fantastic news
ReplyDeleteIndeed! Well done, BEG. And Serbia for that matter!
DeleteI'll believe it when I see it
Delete@anon 11:26
DeleteWe had the same comments when EY said they were buying the airline, then when JU announced JFK, then when they announced ORD...
I remember same for when Hainan flights were announced
DeleteGreat- China and Russia are very important and we are happy they get more and more connected!
DeleteThere is no mention of Russia in today's article. Are you okay?
Delete@Vlad - always the same optimists come around. We’re used to seeing their bright and cheerful posts on here 🤣
DeleteAnd my guess is China Southern and Air Serbia will have a codeshare.
ReplyDeletePossibly even a full-blown JV. I doubt Marek went all the way to CAN just to sign a codeshare agreement.
DeleteA joint venture would be very beneficial for Chinese companies. South East Europe is a relative black whole for aviation. And if they invested in something. An MRO facility or other areas it would be a good return for them
DeleteThis is actually good. It means potentially JU could fly to Shanghai 3 times per week.
ReplyDeleteThey can’t. They are limited to 2 in PVG.
DeleteMashalla !!!
ReplyDelete+1
DeleteSmall correction, BEG-CAN will 2 weekly with JU
ReplyDeleteThis would be fantastic for us from Australia going to BEG.
ReplyDeleteConnections to Australia will be offered, we are working on that
DeleteEspecially since they have very good fares for connecting flights.
DeleteChina Eastern are better. Maybe they will launch PVG.
DeleteCame to say the same. Let's hope can get some code share for down under.
DeleteI would still rather use Qatar or Emirates/Fly Dubai service.
DeleteSo:
ReplyDeleteCAN 1x weekly
TSN 2x weekly
PVG 2x weekly?
A lot of capacity left
TSN is also 1pw this winter.
DeleteWinter schedule isn't finalised just yet. TSN is always 2 pw in winter.
DeleteTSN will be 1pw this winter. Demand is not that big for 2pw.
DeleteInteresting how Chinese carriers are so protective over their market, I don't want this to be another Hainan scenario where JU is left completely lost.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts too.
DeleteASL will get smashed by the Chinese unless they do a JV. How will Air China react as they are a codeshare partner and rival.
DeleteGood news I guess. More choice. Probably will be codeshared.
ReplyDeleteYou really think that JU will succeed next to the huge competitor?
DeleteProbably not just like Hainan destroyed them in Beijing
DeleteIt's obviously part of some cooperation.
DeletePlease tell us how did they destroy them where they do not even fly to and where was not even possible to fly to during pandemic since that was the tine JU started operation to čija?
DeleteI guess anon 11:27 meant exactly that: only Hainan is flying to Bejing and therefore has the whole market for itself.
DeleteExactly Hainan has covered the most lucrative market, being PEK. TSN is like flying to INI instead of BEG.
DeleteTSN was the only option for foreign carriers during COVID-19.
DeleteIt's not like they had a choice to fly Peking and chose Tianjin instead.
But why continue now to Tianjin? All other foreign airlines moved back to Beijing. This was meant by anon 11.27.
DeleteIt is not about the size of the city as Tianjin in itself is a big city per European standards, but about its internationalisation that generates air traffic. Big corporations are seated in Beijing and not in Tianjin. The most wealthy and the most "internationalised" Chinese people, incoming tourism. This is all in Beijing.
100% agree. It is about prestige and rankings which Chinese people obsess about. ASL does know the Chinese market and that’s why during summer, the busiest travel period, they are only flying once weekly.
DeleteFirst of all, the frequencies are limited. They can not fly more than 2 per week. Also, as you seem to be an expert on Chinese travel, maybe you should offer them your services.
DeleteTianjin route is doing well, both with passengers and cargo, which is why they have decided to stay in Tianjin. Most importantly, it is doing well financially, which is the most important metric.
To be fair to JU, you see now a huge drop in demand from Europe to China. You can see how all other European airlines flying to China have reduced their flying. Vast majority of pax on the flights are now Chinese and not Europeans and this is to the advantage of the Chinese airlines.
DeleteTo anon 15:27: we have been talking about reality and not repeating corporate messages. If you want to feed us with corporate messages about success, no thanks.
DeleteAnd yes, the frequences are limited, because Chinese look after their own business and getting rights and then appropriate slots is extremely difficult.
Does China Southern fly to Budapest?
ReplyDeleteYes, they have many flights to Budapest
DeleteThanks, from CAN? do you know how many weekly?
DeleteThey are starting CAN-BUD in 8 days.
DeleteThanks!
DeleteBUD-CAN, 4 times a week
DeleteMedical emergency in Vrapče, Zagreb right now!
ReplyDeleteShut up.
DeleteHe will claim it is charters for construction workers, like he claimed when Hainan announced flights.
DeleteHilarious 😂😂😂
DeleteLMAO
DeleteVrapce is similar to Batajnica. I hope there will be airfield soon, so analyst can be closer to aviation...
DeleteFlew China Southern last year to Australia from Dubai. Great service!
ReplyDeleteNice, what equipment did they use?
DeleteA330-200 from Dubai to Guangzhou and A350 to Sydney. Interestingly Qantas codeshares on the CAN-SYD-CAN flights.
DeleteI find this move very, very negative and offensive to JU simce this move of China Southern practically pushes out JU from Guangzhou.
ReplyDeleteThe same goes with Hainan and Peking.
So, only Shanghai left, if JU is not to be attacked there, too.
It seems 3rd and 4th destination in North America is coming sooner rather than later.
+1
DeleteMaybe JU starts Shenzhen instead :D like they Tianjin
DeleteOr Hong Kong better
DeleteWas about to say Hong Kong
DeleteGuangzhou has a population of over 20 million the great bay area over 120 million, there is room for both of them, JU has network all over Europe to feed their flights
DeleteYU was first said to fly 2x to CAN..What is happening now? One flight is nothing for such a huge and important region, much more important than Tianjin..These are not good news for YU
DeleteThere is a border between the Hong Kong SAR and mainland China so flying to Hong Kong will not get you beyond HK.
DeleteHKIA has direct connections to Macau, Zhuhai, and Shenzhen, while after taking a short 15 minute express train to Kowloon pax can take a high speed train to Guangzhou and beyond. In the first case, pax wouldn't even go through HK immigration, while in the latter they will pass the border at the train station (both HK and Mainland immigration is in the same facility at HK West Kowloon, so once you reach your destination in the Mainland, you are free to step off the train and exit station without further checks).
DeleteSo flying to HK would get you very easily beyond HK. Unfortunately, HK used to be a major destination on its own, but charm and importance of this city is getting crushed by the day...
That's great for visitors but how difficult is it for Chinese PRC passport holders in reverse and how long does the border process take for them as Hong Kong vets their transit arrangements. Based on other posts, most of JU's passengers are from China. Why would they go through all that hassle if they can fly from CAN?
DeleteCorrection - China Southern is no longer part of SkyTeam ☹️ They exited the alliance in 2019.
ReplyDeleteImagine JU and CZ forming their own alliance, with maybe SU lol.
DeleteThey are an AA partner and want to join OneWorld.
Delete14:42 China Southern signed an MoU with Qatar Airways recently, so that may be true. Which could even mean JU is getting closer to oneworld.
DeleteJU needs to join Star Alliance or SkyTeam. Oneworld is the worst out of the three.
DeleteThese set of announcement seem familiar to when Etihad took a stake...... something cooking??
ReplyDeleteThis sounds very much like the beginning of equity partnership.
ReplyDeleteWhy? Doing a JV or codeshare does not equity. Did they do one with QR?
DeleteGreat for passengers, but horrible for JU, as it pushes them out of the market with a superior product and network. Also Chinese passengers, who are the majority, prefer to fly on Chinese airlines. But at least Serbian passengers will get a new transit hub to SE and E Asia.
ReplyDeleteHorrible news for Air Serbia, getting pushed out!
DeleteIt is done as a partnership not competition. Can't imagine sad state of mind where undeniably awesome news are named horrible. With Air Serbia doubling widebody fleet, announcing two new China destinations and at least one more in the US, a lot of "horrible" news are coming!
Anon 16:36
DeleteSo who will fly, China southern or JU? Who is making mo ey, China Southern or JU? In my world, company that is actually flying makes the profit, and not the one who is standing aside and watching, and taking part as "friend" holding a candle..Very bad news for JU, because they were supposed to fly min. 2, possibly 3 flights a weeks, now just 1, even if that stays till autumn
They should just stop launching single weekly flights. They will not attract business people with that.
DeleteI am not sure is this good or bad news for JU? Overall, it must be bad that a major player is starting flights at the same time as them, but then again, given it is China, there must have been some major agreement between Serbia and China and that everyone will get part of the cookie, even JU. I guess we will have to wait and see what kind of agreement has been made.
ReplyDeleteFlights are severely limited, there is way more demand.
DeleteBEG should start designing another extension for the airport with another brand new terminal connected to this one.
ReplyDeleteI would renegotiate concession and put government money in the new terminal.
They are building a new airport in Dobanovci which will be 1,100ha, meanwhile the current airport is 400ha. So I am assuming most operations will transfer to there.
DeleteNobody is building a new airport in Dobanovci or anywhere, people misinterpreted the latest Belgrade spatial planning report.
DeleteWhy when Belgrade can expand to the real second runway behind the Museum? Seriously Dobanovci?
Deletehttps://www.ekapija.com/en/news/3228480/new-belgrade-airport-to-be-built-near-dobanovci-novi-sad-to-get
Delete“Seriously Dobanovci?” Yes and Novi Sad
Why can’t they expand Surčin? Divlja gradnja?
DeleteYes whole Radio Far settlement.
DeleteBehind the museum where it was originally intended but before the obilaznica? Airport was never intended to be where Radiofar is now, but again I am surprised they allowed that to happen in the 1990s and 2000s.
DeleteThere is EXACTLY in a meter enough space from current end of C finger to extend C finger to double its lenght until in reaches current roads.
DeleteIt is a shame that they did not create new stands on the car parking side, then you would not need to extend
DeleteLast quarter of the year shaping up as strong one for BEG.
ReplyDeleteYes. JU short haul and long haul expansion, China Southern arrival and maybe some more surprises :)
DeleteUnless they come up with some JV or some major partnership this is very bad for JU…
ReplyDeleteNice, first of the China BIG 3 airlines at BEG
ReplyDeleteWhat are the other two? Isn't Hainan one of the big 3?
DeleteThe other two are Air China and China Eastern Airlines. These are the biggest airlines in China. Mind you China Southern really is one of the largest in the world.
DeleteAir China, China Eastern and China Southern were all CAAC which also used to serve BEG until 1992 via OTP.
DeleteIt is crazy to ruin your fleet utilization like that.
ReplyDeleteAnd China Southern fly over Russia unlike ASL saving 2 hours flying time.
ReplyDeleteThe difference in flight time is nowhere near 2 hours from CAN.
DeleteIt is not crazy. You want to hit the appropriate banks at your both airports.
ReplyDeletePlus there may be problems with slots for other departure hours, although that could be a problem in PEK/CAN and not in TSN. It is not like you may depart when you want. Getting good slots may take years of waiting.
You don’t work in aviation, do you? It is all about aircraft utilisation. A plane on the ground does not make money.
ReplyDeletePlane on the ground makes no money, but flying outside your banks is never an option. Wasting utilisation is a much better choice.
ReplyDeleteThe plane arrived in TSN and leaves exactly 24 hours later at 630. How does your banking argument go then? Someone said last time it was for crew rest and they could not afford to leave crew in China for 7 days. Either way poor utilisation of aircraft. No other reputable airline leaves a widebody out of base for 24 hours in a foreign airport unless it has a technical problem.
ReplyDeleteThen I stand corrected. I assumed the plane is on ground for much less, like 8-10 hours at most.
ReplyDeleteProbably they see no sensible use of the aircraft.
The aircraft is there for 24 hours because the crew needs to have minimum rest of 24 hours so they can fly the plane back, rather than for them to sit in Tianjin for a week.
ReplyDeleteWhy can’t they shuffle crew between CAN, PVG and TSN with Chinese domestic airlines? I assume the flights will not all depart on the same day.
ReplyDeleteFantastic news! Well done Belgrade 👏🏻
ReplyDelete@Anon 16:13 Good point!
ReplyDelete@Anon 16:07 Are you good?! They see no sensible use? It is for crew rest how many times do you need it repeated?
Air Serbia needs to join an alliance. I am saying either Star Alliance or maybe even SkyTeam.
ReplyDeleteThey're moving towards oneworld.
DeleteStar Alliance? Do you realise that Star Alliance has the Balkans well and truly covered with OU, TK, LH, LX, OS and now AZ? It is OneWorld which has the whole in central Europe since Malev bankrupted.
DeleteAnd Aegean as well.
DeleteSvako čudo 3 dana
ReplyDeleteNegde se samo LCC čuda dešavaju. I to vrlo retko…
DeleteTalking about the demand from EU to China.
ReplyDeleteThree weeks ago I was flying the route from BEG - MXP - SZH - PVG using both Air Serbia (A319) and Hainan Airlines (B789). The route from Milan to Shenzhen was packed by several Chinese groups while I was the only European passenger onboard along with one Pakistani guy! Occupancy - 100%
The flight from Shenzhen to Shanghai was pretty much the same, but this time I was the only European onboard along with 300 Chinese people. Since my previous flight was cancelled (B738), Hainan has upgraded the aircraft type to A333 and again it was 100% fully booked.
Four days after I took a flight from Shanghai to Xian by Juneyao Airlines (A321CEO) - same story again. People were looking at me strangely being the only white guy onboard LOL. The same happened onboard HU from Xian to Beijing (B738).
The last leg was from Beijing to Belgrade by Hainan (A333). The occupancy was again 100%. There were 3 groups of Chinese people onboard. One of them counted more than 100 PAX! There were literally 10 Europeans onboard (3 Montenegrin's, and 7 Serbs), the rest were all Chinese. I hope this will bring you a brighter picture of the current demand to/from China... Cheers
Thank you for the post! Quite interesting that Europeans don't have the necessity to fly to China.
Deleteto anon 17:19:
ReplyDeleteIn order for the crew to rest they do not need an aircraft parked. The crew rests in a hotel.
Maybe for JU the calculation is different because they pay something like 150,000 USD per month for the lease of their A330.
But for an airline using A359 or B789 the monthly leasing fee is on average 700,000 USD, so 23,000 USD per day plus you would need to pay the parking fee to the airport. Therefore they would avoid flying once weekly and if for some reason they would fly once weekly, they would either leave the crew for one week in a hotel or take it back on this or any other plane.
No need for the exclamations.
Yes, the crew rests in the hotel, but in order not to rest for an entire week, there is a 24 hour break and the same crew returns.
ReplyDeleteAnd this is economically feasible only with an older plane and therefore lower leasing rates or if you don't need an aircraft because you have no sensible use for it.
ReplyDeleteOther than that it is better to keep the crew for one week. Not that an airline has one set of crew;) Airlines do that on leisure routes/long-haul charters.
Isn't all of that too much challenges for 1pw destination? Why bother at all, there are some not so restricted markets to grow? Cause JU will not grow in China this way for sure.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why no American airlines fly to BEG. Chinese carriers mirror JU flights, New York is the most successful BEG long haul destination, why wouldn't someone try it too?
ReplyDeleteBecause the yields are terrible.
Delete^ I like how you say that with such conviction, as if you even know what the yields are.
DeleteIf they are so good, why haven’t they launched flights then? AA, DL and UA must be so badly run in your opinion because they have failed to see the profitability in flying from US to BEG.
DeleteYou are all missing the point. The real question is: if they had plenty of XLRs available right now, would they launch Belgrade?
DeleteI am sure BEG is not on top of the list for AA or UA. DL will not have the XLR.
DeleteDid anyone say on the top of the list? No, just - would they launch it if they had a plenty available. So after those top destinations are covered. DL didn't order them (yet) but AA and UA did, plus AC from Canada.
DeleteThey are using them for like for like 757 replacements so unlikely
DeleteThere should be repiprocity on China flights.
ReplyDeleteTwice weekly Air Serbia against twice weekly CSA.
If Air Serbia doesnt get them better fly to Hongkong airport..
They did get reciprocity. JU got 3 weekly rights to CAN. They are just choosing to fly 1 weekly against CZ's more competitive 2 weekly.
ReplyDeleteHong Kong is in Hong Kong SAR and they negotiate their own agreements but then you would need to cross the border into mainland China if you want CAN or Shenzen.
DeleteChinese PRC citizens need a permit to enter Hong Kong and travel from their because of special restrictions for entering Hong Kong for mainlanders.
DeleteHKIA maintains check in facilities in Shekou port in Shenzhen, allowing passengers to check in, use ferry and never have to clear HK immigration.
Delete