Air Canada has significantly expanded its long-haul operations this year with Southeast Europe proving to be a strong drawcard for passengers, notably Greece. With the carrier planning to take delivery of a number of aircraft over the coming year and a half it has earmarked the region for further growth. The carrier’s plans give renewed hope it may include Zagreb in its future line-up of destinations, which it initially planned to launch on a seasonal basis in 2022, taking over from its leisure subsidiary Air Canada Rouge. The carrier has also recently expressed interest in serving Belgrade but a restrictive clause in the bilateral Air Service Agreement between the two countries remains a deterrent. On the other hand, authorities in Macedonia are willing to support the introduction of flights from Canada.
Speaking at a press conference last week, Mark Galardo, Air Canda’s Executive Vice President, Revenue and Network Planning, said, “We continue to see strong demand for southern European destinations. With continued high demand for visiting friends, relatives and leisure travel, our increased services to these destinations give customers more options than ever before”. He added, “We’ve had problems with Boeing, and we’ve had problems with Airbus. Both manufacturers have had issues. With Airbus we were hoping to get the A321XLR. It should’ve been flying by now. But it’s about eighteen months late relative to our initial expectations, and that’s really slowed us down. We’ve had to lease in a bunch of airplanes to make up for that gap. We think we have another eighteen months or so of some aircraft issues. Once we get on the other side of this, we’re going to have seventy-plus new airplanes coming at us, and we’re going to be resuming our growth. Some existing planes will be retired but it’s a huge amount of growth on the horizon. The net effect will be a substantial increase in our size.
Air Canada Rouge discontinued its flights between Toronto and Zagreb in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic. The airline no longer has equipment suitable to serve the Croatian capital after it retired its wide-body Boeing 767 jets. Air Canada planned to launch its own seasonal flights between Toronto and Zagreb in June 2022, however, ticket sales were discontinued after several weeks. Air Canada initially scheduled to operate three weekly flights between the two cities with its 297-seat A330-300 aircraft. The carrier planned to run a total of 54 flights each way with 32.076 seats on sale between the two cities. On the other hand, the Canadian flag carrier recently said it was “looking into flights between Toronto and Belgrade”. Although the revised bilateral Air Service Agreement between the two countries is liberal in nature, it has a restrictive clause, limiting the designated flag carriers to two weekly flights, unless the two parties agree otherwise.
Macedonia has also pursued flights to Canada in recent years. The Macedonian Civil Aviation Agency said it had received a “favourable” response from a Canadian carrier over the introduction of flights to Skopje during the peak summer and peak winter travel periods. Last year, the CEO of operator TAV Macedonia, Nejat Kurt, noted, “Skopje Airport is ready to serve intercontinental flights and we would support any airline that is ready to establish the first nonstop service to North America. Currently, our diaspora travels to North America by transferring through airports in Istanbul, Belgrade, Vienna, Warsaw, and Frankfurt”.
Can the A321XLR reach from Toronto to Zagreb or Belgrade?
ReplyDeleteNot with enough passengers on board to make the flight profitable.
DeleteToo many weight restrictions.
Thanks. That's a shame. That sort of capacity plus a narrow body would make it ideal for these routesm
DeleteI think ZAG yes, but BEG would be really tight. I remember few years ago Air Transat was considering operating to SPU with their A321XLR they planned to order.
DeleteTechnically yes based off of the mileage, but weight and other things would prohibit it. The A330 would probably be best.
Delete@9.04 SPU flights were scheduled and put on sale with A330, then cancelled.
DeleteDo you guys realize AC has A330-300s they could deploy to BEG, ZAG, BUD, OTP, etc.
DeleteBEG has no potential for such flights. AC has never flew there.
DeleteThe Serbian diaspora in Canada is huge, of course there is potential. In fact it's the only ex-YU destination that could potentially work year-round.
DeleteEven TS is struggling in ZAG this year.. almost not a single flight is sold out this year. I took flight TS to ZAG June 01 to 21 and more then half plain was empty. If you look at TS site soo many seats still available. No idea if they continue operate those flight without substitute.
DeleteAnon 10:13
DeleteAnd thats why there is zero flights between Canada and Belgrade.
Anon 10:28
Sure bud. That's why Air Transat increased its presence in ZAG.
^ obviously didn't pay off.
DeleteAnon 11:04 “Air Transat increased its presence” Lol. How’s that looking?
DeleteThe thing is, Air Canada does well on the Croatian market even without flights. They are the number 1 airline from Croatia to Canada by number of handled passengers because they are being fed passengers from codeshare and Star Alliance partners.
DeleteOf course the A321XLR can fly BEG-YYZ. It has a range of 4700nm. The route is well under that by some 700nm.
DeleteAnon 11:33
DeleteAir Transat increased ZAG from 3 to 4 weekly flights.
@Anon 11:50 Yes, but with a full flight with pax, cargo, etc. it can not.
Delete@12.07, you must be confused between the a321LR and a321XLR
DeleteWasn't there a Canadian Airline that flew from YYZ to BEG in the 2000s?
DeleteIt was Skyservice which fly Toronto to Belgrade via Dublin with a 757-200
DeleteNo.
DeleteThey increased the service as they had an an extra aircraft that was scheduled to do TLV. ZAG was the cheapest option for them and they tried to slast those airfare 3 times so far but still many unsold seats are left. You can go on TS website and see it for your self. Prices were 2100 and now you can get the same flight for 1190.
Delete@Anonymous14:23
DeleteTS was a bit greedy with their pricing for ZAG flights. They were charging exorbitant amount of money for their tickets back in February and March when most people from EX YU plan their summer trips. Many people opted for cheaper option with AF, KLM, LH, OU, etc. TS is trying to lower the price now but it's too late as most people already bought their tickets. Also, those who bought it are very unhappy as they bought it early thinking the prices would go even more up as it gets closer to the summer. Now they feel like they were cheated and doubt they will book with TS again in the future.
"Anonymous09:01
DeleteCan the A321XLR reach from Toronto to Zagreb or Belgrade?"
Yes both cities, range is 8700km for XLR, however, for Belgrade it might not be profitable, the seat layout would require at least 40% business class seats to ensure these seats are all full and then yes, it'll be profitable, for Zagreb, 150 Economy, 24 Business class would be profitable seat layout. As long as aircraft is 75% full on either leg.
Only the 787-8 would make sense for any of these flights. They’ll never fill anything over its size (including the 330’s). They wouldn’t even have enough cargo.
DeleteHopefully JU and AC come up with some venture and both start to serve YYZ-BEG
ReplyDeleteThe reason they are limited in the first place is because of AC.
DeleteThe Canadians have made a very restrictive bilateral.
DeleteThey need to change it for travel between the two countries to grow.
Well JU and AC should work something out with the Canadian government.
DeleteAt this rate, AC is more likely to start flights than JU :D
DeleteAnd why does that make you happy?
DeleteIt doesen't. I just find it ironic that JU seems to have some issue with YYZ.
Delete@Anon 9:07 JU will also start flights soon. This decade will be marked by significant long haul expansion especially for the Expo. The slots were expensive and the bilateral posed problems, but they still will launch flights at some point.
Delete@Anon 9:10 JU does not have issues with YYZ but they do have issues with the bilateral.
DeleteAir Canada would be a better option than Air Serbia because they would provide inter-Canada connections.
Deletenot only to Canada but to the U.S. as well.
DeleteAir Serbia can't claim issues with two weekly restriction. Their China flights are all one or planned two weekly.
DeleteAnon 09:10 Air Serbia starting flights to Toronto "soon" and in this "decade" is not the same thing. Not even close. They had the opportunity to announce Toronto right after Chicago was announced in 2022. Toronto was evaluated with Chicago and Chicago won, but Air Serbia then picked Miami over Toronto. Air Serbia is avoiding Toronto.
I think it's just a matter of time before AC or JU start these flights.
Delete09:52
Delete+1
JU will at some point serve YYZ.
DeleteAnon 10:07 Not if Air Canada starts first. Air Serbia would then say "we evaluated Toronto but decided not to launch flights due to competition on the route". Air Serbia can't wait for another excuse to keep postponing Toronto service.
DeleteWhy everything had to involve Air Serbia ??? Let Air Canada fly to BEG alone! Did anything happened to Aegean airlines that does not fly transatlantic ??? NO !!! In fact ATH is thriving and gonna have almost 33 million passengers this year !
Delete*Has
DeleteAegean does not have widebodies and Olympic was a failure when doing long haul in the 2000s. They did not even keep log books for their A340-300s so they all had to be scrapped.
DeleteOne of the A340 is flying for Mahan Air and the other one is flying for Syrian. Why are you lying?
DeleteNo one is lying. They had 4 and 2 were scrapped because they had no maintenance records. Syria and Iran did not care with the other 2 that the records were missing.
DeleteClearly you were as you said all of them were scrapped.
DeleteWell yes because no reputable airline wanted them because they could not fly anywhere that was regulated. And no lying because that what is what needed to happen until some dodgy deal was done with the Iranians to get the last 2.
DeleteAnon 11:55 , We all know Aegean does not have widebodies although they will initialy have 4 brand new a321LR for India , central Africa and greater middle East. What I'm saying is that nothing happened to them that they did not choose to fly transatlantic.
DeleteAn A321LR could not fly from ATH to North America.
DeleteAnon 12:36 , Are you for real ?? Of course an LR can not reach North America . You miss the point . All I'm saying is why serbian government does not allow Air Canada to fly whenever or how many times they want to BEG ? This protectionism to Air Serbia must stop . Nothing happened to Greek airlines because the Greek government allow Air Canada or Air Transat to fly to ATH as many frequences as they want !
Delete^ you really don't know a lot about aviation as you obviously don't know that Air Canada is one of the most protected airlines in the world and it is precisely the Canadian government that has dictated the terms of the bilateral. Google if you don't know.
DeleteBut my point is Greece has nothing to protect because it does not have a national carrier that flies long haul. It is in Greece's economic interest to allow AC to fly there and EK to fly fifth freedom flights to EWR etc. On the other hand, Serbia wants reciprocity but I think they should make it open skies as JU has not indicated any intention to fly to YYZ given its unwillingness to fly seasonal long haul flights to YYZ. There is nothing to protect if JU does not want to fly to Canada.
Delete@anon 13.35 - man, you are not listening! JU and Serbian government WANT Open skies with Canada! Canadian Directorate and Air Canada are stopping it!
DeleteWhy would they want Open Skies if Air Serbia claims it is not interested in flying to Toronto. Something just does not add up. Either Air Serbia is interested in YYZ or it isn't. Either way, no one should stop Air Canada from flying to BEG and perhaps the two could codeshare to make the route work.
Delete^ no one is stopping them. Stop making up hysterical arguments as you go.
DeleteThen why don't the two sides nicely agree (ie both sides can agree under the Air Services Agreement) that they lift the number of services to say 7 times a week.
DeleteBecause the Canadian government does not want to.
DeleteOne thing is for sure and that’s they are most definitely not coming to Ljubljana.
ReplyDeleteThey do not fly to any destination in Eastern Europe and you expect them to fly to LJU?
DeleteFraport is not interested.
Deletehttps://www.exyuaviation.com/2022/06/ljubljana-airport-unlikely-to-see.html
DeleteI said it is for sure that they are NOT coming to LJU
DeleteDid LJU ever have flights to Canada? During Yugo times?
DeleteOnly to Usa. New York, Chichago and Cleveland I think
DeleteOnly long hauls we've had are New York and some charters to Tokyo lol
DeleteStill, pretty amazing to be honest.
DeleteLJU was connected with CLE by JAT DC-10 as well.
DeleteJAT Transatlantic routes were BEG-ZAG-JFK, BEG-LJU-JFK-CLE, BEG-DBV-JFK, BEG-ORD-LAX, BEG-JFK-ORD, BEG-YMX-YYZ, BEG-DTW-ORD
DeleteLet’s first attract some LCC and expand EU network.. Of course i would like to see long haul flights, but it’s not realistic.
DeleteWhy don't they try YYZ-ZAG-BEG or YYZ-BEG-SKP. Do they fly one stop flights like Emirates for example?
ReplyDeleteOne stop flights don’t work in these situations. Emirates does it to places they cannot reach directly, both due to distance and altitude of airports.
Delete@Anonymous 09:06 Not exactly. They fly DXB-ATH-EWR, DXB-MXP-JFK, DXB-LCA-MLA...
DeleteVery few use these flights to fly from DXB to the states.
DeleteIt is overwhelmingly for DXB-ATH&MXP travelers and ATH&MXP to New York.
With Air Canada this would be problematic due to bilaterals. With EK it is not such an issue since UAE has open sky with almost everyone.
DeleteEmirates can make them work as they captured the wealthy segment of travellers who're willing to pay extra for that extra bit of comfort
DeleteI am not talking about Canada. When ASL was desperate for flights to JFK, could EY not have run an Airbus A330-200 from AUH to JFK via BEG in cooperation with JU like JU did with Uzbekh?
DeleteDoes Air Canada codeshare on flights to Belgrade and Skopje? I know they have codeshare with Croatia Airlines to Zagreb.
ReplyDeleteYes, Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Munich anf Frankfurt to Belgrade. Edelweiss from Zurich to Skopje.
DeleteThank you. Surprised about the Edelweiss codeshare.
DeleteAir Canada does not have a plane to relaunch Zagreb, but it has to launch Stockholm from both Montreal and Toronto. Can you please stop with this BS finally?
ReplyDeleteThey do have a plane. The A330-300.
DeleteARN was launched because SAS is leaving Star Alliance. When they launched the routes a few weeks ago they even said these were strategically launched since SAS is leaving Star.
DeleteIt is most likely they will restore former AC Rouge routes - Zagreb, Budapest and Bucharest.
ReplyDeleteI think it is even more likely to increase frequencies on Mediterranean destinations.
DeleteThat's what the American carriers are doing.
They only care about profit margins, not connectivity with new countries.
^yes likely
DeleteAnonymous09:16
DeleteThat's what I would do to. Summer lesure market to the Mediterranean would be my top pick as well.
Maybe Dubrovnik. Works for United.
DeleteProbably Zagreb. There are already Canada - Zagreb flights for years.
ReplyDeleteAir Canada has started code-sharing with LX and EW on the ZRH-SKP-ZRH recently.
ReplyDeleteI see Skopje with a chance of attracting Air Transat but no chance for Air Canada.
ReplyDeleteFingers crossed. Would love to see Air Canada in the region.
ReplyDeleteWell, the market is certainly there
DeleteSerbia-Canada market is big enough to justify non stop flights. AC has a wide network and they could offer connections beyond major domestic destinations such as Vancouver, Winnipeg, Montreal...
ReplyDeleteplease asap
ReplyDeleteZagreb would benefit from Air Canada flights with many connections throughout Canada as well as the USA and the Caribbean. Hope they come.
ReplyDeletebring them to SKP, Toronto - Skopje daily service will make a lot of cash for AC during summer time, and in winter they can combine it with OHD
ReplyDeleteWhat is the PDEW numbers for SKP-YYZ?
DeleteWhich European routes does Air Canada operate seasonally in Europe?
ReplyDeleteOpportunity for OU 😀
ReplyDeleteYes, with the A220s lol
Delete220XLR😂
DeleteVia Keflavik?
DeleteI really hope flights meaterialise sooner rather than later
ReplyDeleteThese routes would be good for cargo too.
DeleteWould be interesting to see if Canada Serbia ASA gets revised to three weekly in the next year or two. That would remove current deterrent by the time Air Canada gets additional aircraft.
ReplyDeleteThey really should have open skies. If Air Canada is worried about Westjet or Air Transat, they need to sort that out themselves after all Canada is an open economy. I don't see any second Serbian carrier being started any time soon.
DeleteOriginal comment was about weekly frequency limitation, not designated carrier.
DeleteWestjet does not use Dreamliners out of Toronto for transatlantic routes. They fly MAX to DUB and EDI, but MAX can't reach Belgrade from Toronto.
Could West Jet eventually start flights to the region?
ReplyDeletePersonally i think Croatia coast would work for sure maybe Zagreb also..
ReplyDeleteVisas for Canada will be an issue for Serbs, North Macedonians. Zagreb and Bucharest make sense due to the large diaspora in Canada also due to the visa-free regime. Canada is a very seasonal destination especially Montreal. Canadians also fly to the Carribean or Mexico in winter.
ReplyDeleteWho said anything about Montreal? Everyone knows that most folks from Balkans live in Toronto and Vancouver.
DeleteI hope AC targets not only ex-yu, but also Romania and BG. SOF operator announced that there is 99% discount on airport fees for continental flights, yet it is the only Balkan airport, SKP as well, with no long haul flights from it. While the demand to North America is sufficient for year round flights. I see not only the A321xlr suitable, but also the smaller 787-8 perfect for every major airport in southeastern europe.
ReplyDeleteBulgarian diaspora is not extremely high in Canada compared to Chicago, which is the largest. Romania makes more sense. It has a much higher one. Toronto is full of East Europeans, but the route would work from June-October max.
DeleteWest Jet would be nice route from Skopje to Toronto for the summer peak with couple flights ... :)))
ReplyDeleteAir Canada should investigate direct Skopje - Toronto. Second largest Macedonian city after Skopje is Toronto. Over 200000 Macedonians live in the metro area. Also many Macedonians from Detroit area complain about having to change too many plans to reach Macedonia. One weekly rotation, starting i summer would be full with a suitable plane.
ReplyDeleteAnd old 747 Ait Canada to Skopje from Toronto to make it bunga bunga super special.
ReplyDelete