Good morning and welcome to my trip report! I was invited to attend an event in Seoul so it was up to the organisers to get me there. That is how I ended up flying (for the first time) on the relatively unfortunate flydubai - Emirates combination. This was my first time flying on FZ while it would be my third time onboard EK. My first time was back in 1999 when I was just 11 years old and we flew LCA-DXB-BEY-LCA on their beautiful A310. In my humble opinion, the A310 is one of the most beautiful aircraft ever to be designed. Anyway, my second time was in 2011 from LCA via DXB to DEL onboard both their A332 and B773. I am quite lucky to have flown on the A310 and the A330 as both have been since retired by Emirates.
Seems to me that every decade or so, I end up flying on EK (1999, 2011, 2024) so I guess the time has come to do it once again. It was also a good opportunity to see what changed (or didn't) since the last time I flew with them.
EK323 Seoul Incheon -Dubai
STD: 23.55 (00.06)
STA: 04.30 (04.30)
Aircraft: A388
LF: 100%
Flight time: 09 hours and 24 minutes.
Drop off area at ICN - this is where our journey back to Serbia begins
Departure board at ICN. It's quite a busy airport.
I have to say, despite there being some major flaws (will be mentioned later on), ICN has to be one of the nicest and prettiest terminal buildings in the world. It's also huge and I think once the expansion is completed it will become one of the biggest in the world.
From what I saw out there, Emirates was a rare airline to have an entire check-in island for themselves. For example, close to us there was a TK B77W flight as well as a Cebu Pacific A339 flight. Honestly, I think I would have had a nervous breakdown if I had to go through that experience. Both flights seemed full and there were just a few check-in desks open. Mind you, Cebu Pacific A339 can carry up to 459 passengers! Good luck processing all those people with just 4-5 check-in desks.
Emirates was somewhat more generous so they had enough check-in desks to efficiently process this full A380 to Dubai. Two of my colleagues flew on TK and their check-in process took roughly 50 minutes.
Before you reach the airside zone at ICN, you have to pass through several layers of Hell. First one is where they check your documents and mind you all departing passengers are processed via three separate lines where one of them is for what they call 'face id' passengers. As you can imagine we waited in line for at least 45 minutes before reaching the checkpoint. Koreans were brutal. Whoever waited in the face id line was sent back to wait all over again. Most of them were young, white passengers.
Second layer of Hell is the security control which is inefficient and where instructions are shouted at you in Korean. Final and third phase is somewhat more pleasant and that is where you wait in line (another 20 minutes) for a machine to scan your passport, your finger and your face.
When we landed at ICN, we waited in the passport control line for 90 minutes. There were many different arrivals at that time and only 6 passport control booths were open. It was only after an hour that they opened another two. BEG doesn't seem too bad now, does it?
Once you have passed through all of this you can enjoy the charms of everything ICN has to offer ... but only until 21.30 since that is when almost everything closes. This was especially strange since there were a lot of flights that usually depart after midnight. At 21.30 they started closing duty free shops while at 22.00 the last remaining coffeeshop was closed so we were left with a tiny supermarket.
Since there really wasn't much to do, I proceeded to the gate area and I waited for our A380 to be pulled up to the gate. This plane actually arrived at around 17.00 so it had a long layover before flying back home.
I've reached our gate. On your right you can see the last remaining shop that was left open to serve some 20 flights that were scheduled for that evening.
Here she is.
Boarding started on time and it took close to one hour to get everyone onboard. Welcoming us at the door was a pleasant, charming stewardess (Torres) who addressed each passenger by their family name. Once you were onboard you were faced with an army of mostly indifferent and cold members of the crew.
The cabin was somewhat outdated and you could feel that this plane did not feature a new interior. I personally disliked the sand dune motifs on the walls but then again it's just me.
The seat itself was very comfortable and the legroom was decent. I heard so much about the 'award winning' ICE system on EK but in reality it was an absolutely anticlimactic moment. It's similar to what Lufthansa offers on their non-Allegris aircraft. Their moving map is not interractive, there is a limited selection of tv shows and movies and the screen was barely responsive. This is considerably worse than what their competition offers (Delta, United, Turkish Airlines, Qatar...).
Once boarding was completed, the crew came around handing out these amenity kits. This was a very nice touch and the content of the bag was of very high quality.
If there is one thing where EK beats everyone else then it's catering. The food served onboard was some of the best I have ever had on a plane. Their portions were also more than generous.
About an hour after take off dinner was served. As mentioned before, the quality was absolutely fantastic.
Shortly before landing breakfast was served.
A hot towel was handed out.
Some 30 minutes before landing they announced gates for transfer passengers. What was unfortunate is that the list did not include FZ flights.
We landed exactly on time after making several circles around Dubai. We parked at the gate and since we were attached to three airbridges we were all out in about 20 minutes. From the looks of it, most passengers onboard were Koreans, Polish and there were a lot of Iranians.
Welcome to DXB! I have to say that they fixed their terminals quite a bit. Dubai now provides a much better experience than it did back in 2011.
Our 'lovely' flydubai flight to Belgrade was departing from another concourse so I had to go down and catch the metro. Dubai is extremely efficient and there were barely any queues anywhere. Security lasted a matter of minutes.
I didn't want to take the elevator with everyone else so I went down using the escalator. I got the chance to look at this massive waterfall and the sound of water was quite nice and soothing. It's a very nice touch.
Metro station at DXB.
Some ten minutes later I have reached our terminal. My connection was four hours so I had enough time to kill. There is one thing I noticed and that is the prices. They are not really competitive so I think they are betting on people buying stuff because they have to or simply because they have nothing better to do.
Selection of shops and cafes was good with 2 or 3 restaurants for the whole, massive terminal.
Anyway, after a few hours of wondering around the terminal building, it was time to head to the gate. I dreaded the thought of flying on FZ since I knew what awaited me. The flight to Dubai was no fun and it was an overall horrible experience.
FZ1745 DXB-BEG
STD: 09.05 (10.04)
STA: 13.00 (13.48)
Aircraft: B7M8
LF: 100%
Flight time: 05 hours and 44 minutes
From what I understood, DXB gates offer both bus and direct boarding. Bus gates are just a floor lower as was the case with our flight today.
Now. Our flight arrived from MRV ahead of schedule. Boarding for our flight started on time so everything seemed to be going according to plan. Bus ride to the plane took some 20 minutes. We reached our remote stand and it was obvious that our plane was not ready to welcome us onboard. We ended up waiting for another 20 minutes in the bus. Finally they let us out and as we were disembarking a FZ employee was checking our boarding passes and was telling us which door to use. I was directed to the rear door which made me happy as I could look at the planes all around us. Only problem is that the stairs to the plane were blocked so we were lining up waiting for the ramp agent to come and let us in.
Boarding was taking place regularly at the front door. I suppose they were still loading catering in the back so we had to wait some more.
After a 10 minute suntanning session at 33 degrees and what felt like 1.000.000% humidity, someone came, removed the barrier and let us in. At that point close to an hour passed since we boarded the bus at the terminal.
As you can see, flydubai is not generous when it come to legroom. This was especially a problem for us since the plane was full to the last seat and due to the tensions in the Middle East, FZ re-routed all of its flights to Europe east of Tehran. It made sense as some 24 hours after we flew over Tehran, Israel attacked them.
It was a long way to the runway since we were leaving Dubai during the morning rush-hour. Just in front of us was FZ to LJU.
A bit less than two hours after take off we reached Tehran. Pictured above is Mount Damavand.
Only positive thing I can say about FZ is their moving map. It's really responsive and the graphics are phenomenal. All other content can be accessed for a price (movies, tv shows, games...). You can also access their BoB menu and pay directly for stuff you have selected. They have a payment system at each seat.
All passengers who are either connecting from an EK flight or who are not flying on the cheapest fare receive a meal. We had a choice between pancakes and some omelette with sausages. I opted for the pancakes which were ok. That said, FZ gives you minimal legroom and the option to recline your seat. As you can imagine this combination is far from ideal when you have to use cutlery and cut whatever food is placed in front of you. Of course, the passenger in front of me reclined his seat and kept on jumping around trying to find a comfortable position to sleep.
The whole plane was served coffee or tea roughly an hour before landing.
For example, when flying on EK, their crew asks everyone to put their seats in the upright position. This is not the case with FZ.
After close to six hours we reached our final destination. We parked at the gate A2 where we were welcomed by at least ten policemen. They checked all of our papers since roughly 30% of the passengers onboard were either from India or Uzbekistan. They all had to show their papers before proceeding to the terminal building.
Passport control was a breeze, luggage arrived some 5 minutes later and I was out within minutes. After all those hours stuck on the FZ plane it felt good to move and to feel the blood rush once more through my body.
Final impressions:
- Flight from BEG to DXB was also 100% full so the overall experience was similar to what I described above.
- FZ might be an ok option for flights up to 3 or 4 hours but definitely not for a destination such as BEG. I can only imagine what it feels like to fly them to LJU, ZAG, KRK or CTA which are all further away than BEG.
- FZ-EK combination is simply not competitive when faced with EY, QR or TK. These three carriers offer the same product on all of their flights. Does EK really think that FZ to Dubai can compete with, let's say, TK to Istanbul or QR to Doha? I just don't see it.
- Emirates on the other hand offers an ok/decent product. I wouldn't describe it anything other than that. To me they are just slightly better than Lufthansa. Only thing that truly stands out is their catering. I would definitely not call them a premium carrier.
- One major disappointment on EK was the crew. To me everything can go wrong but if the crew is great then all is forgiven. On our DXB-ICN flight most of them were indifferent and spent most of the time in the galley. I understand that the flight was 50% full but still. The purser (Kornphaka) as well as her two colleagues (Lavee and Maxandre) seemed to be the only ones who worked and showed any interest in interacting with us. The same applied to the flight back with only one crew member (Torres) showing any will to communicate with passengers.
- I have to say that I am extremely disappointed with EK. Their product is outdated, their crew are not the best, their supposedly award winning IFE is mediocre while on the flight to ICN both my seat and the seat next to mine were broken.
- Catering and seat comfort are about the only positive things from this trip.
- As far as that dumpster fire of an airline goes (FZ), I will avoid them for as long as I live. In my opinion they are not a long-term solution for EK especially since their competition is upping their game. It's not just Etihad which is back, they also have Saudia and Riyadh Air trying to become relevant. Unless something changes at EK, they will lose their competitive advantage. They can't live off of their old glory forever.
- Personally, flydubai is a major problem for me and they are reason enough not to fly via DXB in the future.
- Emirates used to be a trendsetter some 20 years ago. I just don't see what makes them better than Turkish Airlines, Qatar or even carriers such as Hainan or China Southern which offer connections to Asia via their hubs in China.
- After this experience I am even more convinced Air Serbia should launch Dubai. Despite their flaws they would offer a much better product than FZ. Air Serbia should not waste time as I am certain BEG will become one of the first FZ Dreamliner destinations.
As always, it was a pleasure writing a trip report for you and I would love to hear your opinion on flydubai, Emirates, Incheon or Dubai airport!
Cheers!
Nemjee
Share your travel experience by submitting a trip report to exyu@exyuaviation.com
Nemjee, just as a curiosity, how much time it took you to write this trip report?
ReplyDeleteThanks.
I think an hour and a half, more or less.
DeleteGreat report. I agree regarding some of your comments about Emirates. I think their brand is so strong that they get all the publicity while in actual fact their product is starting to fall behind the competition in some cabins (especially business where they still offer 2-3-2 product on many planes).
ReplyDeleteIndeed, that is why I was curious to see what their product was like ten years later. Unfortunately not much has changed. EK is not a bad carrier, in my opinion they are just ok.
DeleteSurprised by your “negative” experience in ICN. I went there with my parents this spring, it was their first time in Asia, and we loved everything about ICN airport. If I remember correctly, before you enter the departing zone, there are many “entry” points, which show you what would be the quickest one for your specific gate and level of busyness at security…
ReplyDeleteI was at ICN once before (just before covid) and immigration was bad then as well. As for these crossings, I think most of them were closed because of the expansion. On arrivals all but one exit was open. It took some 20 minutes walking from luggage collection to being outside.
DeleteI didn't mind the walk but I don't think these procedures are fun if you are on a tight schedule.
Its post-pandemic shivers, where carriers are trying to redefine themselves and they are saving left and right.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, I´ve hardly noticed any difference between any carrier in economy: e.g. catering may be fine, but the IFE (or seat) sucks, or vice versa.
They earn their money with their premium cabins and here they try harder. And also here, the gulf carriers (along with TK, SQ and couple Asian Carriers) are still miles ahead of all European and US companies.
I beg to disagree with the last sentence. I would fly AF long-haul J over the TK flying coffins or EK ancient seats any day of the week.
DeleteIt is certainly refreshing that AF is doing a revamp of its premium cabin-it was about time.
DeleteIt goes more or less simultaneously with EK and TK (reversed herringbone is nothing new, and both EK and TK already offer it on many planes, just like AF had started to offer it).
One difference however between e.g QR and TK on one, and all European carriers on the other side is, that when you fly premium cabin on long haul from our region you have to take a feeder flight to a hub, and unlike QR/TK none of the European carriers offers a dedicated premium cabin on short-haul- they merely offer an economy seat with nobody sitting next to you. One may argue nobody needs a premium cabin on a 2hr flight, but the perks just keep on adding up with the gulf carriers.
I don’t get your ‘major problem with FZ’ drama from your story’? The only negative you wrote was the tight legroom. Then just buy the extra legroom seat, Business class or get an aisle seat. Get some Netflix on your iPad and go. Never rely on the airline or airport. Rookie mistake if you ask me. All this is known before you even travel. The amount of negativity within you is a bit worrying; ICN, Ek and FZ. Are you ok?
ReplyDeleteDid you read report? He had only negative things about Fly Dubai. Especially part at Dubai airport boarding, bad seats and little space.
DeleteAnon 11h09, i think you didn't read the article:)
DeleteAh yes, why don't I just book a private jet the next time I'm flying.
DeleteYou can see from the very beginning of the trip report that I did not have a choice when booking this flight. Both flights were full to the last seat so even if I wanted to I couldn't get a seat with more legroom.
I had a book and entertainment on my phone. It meant little as the overall flight was extremely uncomfortable and the crew were as bad the service they offered onboard.
Also, the treatment we got on the way back was horrible. I can only imagine the drama and hysteria if it happened in Belgrade. We wouldn't hear the end of it.
Last year Emirates spent €100.000.000 on marketing. They insist on being a premium carrier with a fantastic onboard experience. This is somewhat misleading given the onboard experience. As mentioned in my report, their cabins are outdated, IFE non-responsive with limited choices and the crew are far from being welcoming and friendly. Only positive thing is the catering.
That is why some like Simply Aviation launched a 'brutally honnest' series of videos. There they look at airlines, not based on what they actually offer, but rather what is expected based on their digital presence.
In my opinion, Emirates is on par with Lufthansa. Both offer more or less the same product.
Then obviously you were unlucky to get the old(est) cabins on your two flights. This is not a common experience with EK, I can tell you that for sure.
DeleteI just don't see how Flydubai is that much worse than Qatar. Qatar uses A320s with aging cabins to the Balkans, which are in my opinion inferior to the MAX. I've flown both of them recently and the experience was pretty similar.
ReplyDeleteQR has better entertainment, better meals, free drinks etc.
Deleteflydubai is like Wizzair.
flydubai is absolutely not like Wizzair. Hilarious.
DeleteIt's not? This is literally from their website:
Deleteflydubai is a low cost Dubai airline offering cheap Dubai flights in the UAE. flydubai airlines offer affordable Dubai flight routes.
https://groups.flydubai.com/
1) Low cost can mean different things. And FZ isn't exactly cheap.
Delete2) FZ operates a hub and spoke model from its one hub, DXB. They sell connecting flights onto its own and Emirates' network.
3) Every FZ ticket bought through Emirates includes a meal, checked luggage and in flight entertainment. Wizz doesn't even have hot meals or IFE.
4) FZ has an excellent business class, better hard product than Qatar A320. Just like Wizz, eh?
FZ doesn't include entertainment, you have to pay for it. LCC offer connections, easyJet offers connections on their website. They are also not LCC? It's called Worldwide.
DeleteThe point is FZ offers IFE, your easyJet and Wizz don't. Also easyJet's Worldwide connections aren't real connections. They are "self-connected journeys" as per their website. You have to re-check your bag yourself. So point missed as well.
DeleteHow much do you need to pay for IFE? I did not know they not offer that for free.
DeleteYes, you have to pay for everything on FZ, including IFE. I fully agree with Nemjee. Flew with them 3 times - first, last, and never again. Booked a ticket with EK from LJU two years ago, with the first leg from LJU to DXB with FZ. Low cost service for the regular EK (legacy) price. Nowdays I rather drive to VCE or VIE and fly fully with EK.
DeleteIf not a secret where did you connect to in DXB?
DeleteSEZ
DeleteThank you for the excellent trip report (although I expected no less)!
ReplyDeleteI haven't flown any of the ME3 since COVID, but it has always been my impression as well that the reputation of "bling" airlines (ME3 + TK) is at least 80% based on marketing and infrequent flyers that fall for gimmicks, whereas the actual difference in quality is often far smaller, if not to the disadvantage of the "bling" ones.
I'll be on EY Y in December and TK J in March, so I think I'll post my own experiences here as well.
Thank you, I look forward to reading your trip report! I am especially curious about EY since they are trying to get back into the game.
DeleteGreat report, many thanks!
ReplyDeleteCool and well balanced report.
ReplyDeleteBalanced? Well, if you think so.
DeleteAnd by the way, if JU was to ever operate AUH or DXB or DWC what makes you think they would use long range material over A320? 5,5 hrs is fine for mid range airbusses and much cheaper to operate to A330s.
Could you please let me know how it wasn't well-balanced? Since you are implying I was biased.
DeleteJU A320 can't make it to DXB so that leaves them with the A330.
See above - almost everything you write about (ICN, EK, DXB, FZ) is mostly not good, major disappointment, major problem, like layers of hell, can't be recommended etc. - of course except BEG and JU.
DeleteAnd typical range of A320CEO / A320-214, A320-232 is 6100km. BEGDXB is 3800km even with avoidance of air corridors at the moment no more than 4200km. Gosh what a waste of time here.
Well, here is an idea. Why don't you do the same itinerary and you can share with us your impressions and experiences. I would love to hear your take on it all. I have detailed everything I experienced and there isn't much I can do about it.
DeleteNo, Air Serbia A320 can't make it to Dubai, that is the information I got from the airline. I guess you know better than they do. Has it every crossed your mind that when evaluating a potential route, Air Serbia has to factor in many different things (weight, cargo, diversions, winds, detours etc.). Probably when all of these are taken into consideration the A320 can't make it there. Or maybe it can't make it there without weight restrictions which would make this route unprofitable.
There is a reason why B7M8 and A321neo operate flights from the UAE to BEG.
Hey buddy, if it's a waste of time then why are you here? No one is forcing you to spend time with us.
+1 nemjee
DeleteSo A320 can make it from DXB to BER, but not to BEG?
DeleteA320neo operates that route. JU doesn't have it unfortunately.
DeleteIndeed, both Eurowings and Condor use the A320neo on flights between Berlin and Dubai.
DeleteI just checked and block time for BER-DXB on EW is 06 hours and 20 minutes. Our flight on the MAX to BEG was 05 hours and 44 minutes.
On such longer flights you need planes with more efficient engines.
BTW there was a time when FZ flew from DXB to BKK (2016 to 2018). This route did not last long as B738s performance did not live up to the expectations. It's only now that they can resume Thailand flights when they have the MAX.
Air Arabia uses A320 (ceo) for their Sharjah - Sarajevo route, and it works without any issues, also in September I flown with Air Arabia from Moscow to Abu Dhabi, and it was with standard A320 (ceo A320-214) as well, and it was almost 6 hours of flight time. So JU could (at least I think) fly BEG-DXB if they wanted to.
DeleteWell, if not A320 Air Serbia's A319 can.
DeleteAnd of course A330.
I looked online. Flight from Sharjah to Moscow is between 04.50 and 05.10. FZ 1749 average flight time is 05.40. Also Air Arabia has sharklets on their A320. AS has just one so they can't rely on it.
DeleteDubai to Belgrade is closer to 6 hours. Sharjah to Moscow is closer to 5. Huge difference.
I also looked at AUH flights and some are also close to 6 hours. Wizz also makes big circles because of war. I think this is main problem.
DeleteASL has to take into consideration all routings when thinking about DXB. They need to use a plane that can make all the routings, no matter what the circumstances. Aviation is not easy business.
DeleteA319 can make it for sure.
DeleteAnon 21:23 like I wrote in my first comment, Air Arabia also uses the A320ceo for Sharjah - Sarajevo flights during the summer season, and that's longer (a little bit than Dubai-Belgrade)
DeleteIt could be due to them having sharklets, but I also read (I don't know if that's true) that CFM56 uses a bit more fuel on longer flights than IAE V2500 engines that Air Serbia has on their planes, and that's also one of the reasons why Qatar flies A320 with IAE engines to their Europe routes (Belgrade, Zagreb, Sarajevo) even though they have planes with either version.
I checked on FR24 and Air Arabia's flight to SJJ used to last between 05.10 and 05.20. They used to operate a more direct routing than what we have on BEG-DXB which is on average 05.40 to 05.50 depending on what flight plan is used.
DeleteMy guess is that geopolitical tensions are making BEG-DXB for JU quite challenging. That could one one of the reasons why they would need the A330 for this market.
The A319 could make it but lower seat count and less cargo space might make it less competitive vs. flydubai and Wizz Air where both operate new generation of aircraft.
Thank you for another interesting trip report, Nemjee! It is my wish to fly on A-380 with Emirates, but after reading a trip report of yours, it is not a big deal.
ReplyDeleteYou should do it for the experience. EK sends their A380s on shorter regional routes so no need to fly on it to far away destinations.
DeleteI think the A380 flies to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. It is an impressive plane, especially on take off.
Nemjee is absolutely right that they should launch Dubai instead of these Mykonos and other seasonal twice per week.
ReplyDeleteThe difference is those seasonal flights are a safe way to make them a lot of money, which DXB probably can't.
DeleteThey can launch both, especially since Dubai could be launched in winter when these summer seasonal flights end.
DeleteThere is a healthy mix of O&D and transfer passengers to make this route viable.
If JU launches Dubai, which they should before any other long-haul destination, then we might see EK step in.
DeleteIf EK enters the market then FZ is out. I don't think the market can sustain so many different players.
DeleteIdeally EK should take over the daytime flight from FZ which should keep the overnight one. That would be the best thing for the market.
In the end I don't think EK will come nor will JU launch flights. We will most likely get the FZ 787 in a couple of years.
Of course.
DeleteLove it
Delete1. FZ does not have B787, but only B737.
Delete2. EK can coexist with EK on the same market.
3. JU, if it entered the market, would compete with FZ and not with EK.
4. Without passengers transferring in Dubai JU would be in a more difficult position than FZ or EK.
FZ ordered the 787 and they will get them in I think two years.
DeleteJU has transfers in Belgrade plus the airport catchment area.
DeleteEmirates are very likely to start Belgrade service once sufficient number of new planes enters their fleet.
ReplyDeleteYes of course...
Delete_"If there is one thing where EK beats everyone else then it's catering. The food served onboard was some of the best I have ever had on a plane."_ Original orthography
ReplyDeleteSeriously? If EK has the best catering the author ever had on a plane... one needs to ask: how often do you fly and what were your carriers so far? EK food had been good in the past. Now, it is mediocre at best
No need to add original orthography when using quotation marks. It's implied.
DeleteEK uses Do&Co which we can see from the picture. They are known as the best in the industry. Maybe EK improved since the last time you flew with them?
They use Do&Co in Seoul. In Dubai they have their own inhouse catering.
DeleteA non sharklet A320 can easily do DXB including a detour around Tehran. That’s only say 75% of it’s range, even with a non UAE alternate it is a non issue. flydubai flew to BKK to help EK wrt slots usage. Once EK could do it themselves again they handed the slot back to EK. The 737-800 was lightly payload restricted on the return due to level restrictions within Yangon FIR. The MAX has no issues at all. JU has no chance against FZ/EK. They would have to wage a price war with an aging aircraft, sub par product and little to no feed/connections. FZ also runs double daily flights. When they have enough aircraft again they will add an additional seasonal rotation for sure. Both their MAX and NG to BEG has the identical product now. Block time is 05:55 and 05:15. You buy a ticket via EK then you also get a meal. If not via EK then pre-order it via FZ website or bring your own. Same with IFE. I’d rather save the 35 dirhams for the premium IFE package and bring my own Netflix. And who cares about a 20 min bus ride to/from the aircraft? On a jet bridge you’d be waiting that time inside a terminal anyways spending time on your phone whilst now you get to see planes up close. How awesome! The only EK product I don’t like is the oldest one. Flown it many times in J and Y. But that will soon be gone. Other than that their crews are way better than Europeans, US or TK. Even on a bad day.
ReplyDelete+1 fully agree!
Delete